Am I the Only One Who Thinks Disney is Failing In Its Progression Vs. Universal

[helloconnie]

Okay, so there is obviously a lot of passion on this thread. There are also some similiar threads going about the same subject.

Has anyone read this blog... "The Five Biggest Needs at Disney World"
http://thedisneyblog.com/2010/07/05/the-five-biggest-needs-at-walt-disney-world/

There is a separate discussion thread on the DISBoards about this blog. In case you haven't read it yet, you can find it here:
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2502855

My biggest issue is that Bob Iger doesn't seem to think the parks need updating. I bet the Imagineer's have some amazing ideas and proposals out there. But according to Iger, he implies that major park projects are done for awhile after the FL expansion.

As evidenced on this thread and others, the people that frequent WDW are BEGGING for renovation and innovation of the old days. Seems like there is a big disconnect.

My biggest concern is that Disney continues to build resorts / hotels thereby increasing the bodies in the parks yet they have not, nor plan to it seems, increase the ability for the parks to handle the additional traffic. Who wants to pay $75 per person for a ticket only to wait 60-75 minutes to ride one ride? I realize you can use FPs. But when you pull one FP, you must wait in line for the next ride.

There is a need for more 'E-Ticket' attractions that will disperse the crowd into more lines.

Also, as has been mentioned in this thread, there are many areas throughout all four parks that need to be updated or replaced.

So I agree with many of the previous posts:
Update the dated (Muppets (my kids don't even know who the Muppets are), Indiana Jones, Sounds with Drew Carrey (who?), Honey I Shrunk the Auidence, High School Musical (that trend is over)....
Add rides that appeal to the teens (i.e., thrill rides)
Expand rides at AK to include some for the under 42" set (please, not another Dumbo, Flying Carpet, Astro Orbiter, etc.)
Add more pirate stuff... ride, character interaction / dining
Add another land to MK. Although I don't know the numbers, I would be willing to bet this park gets the most foot traffic.
Get back to the magic of Disney Imagineering

My 2 cents

 

[Limetree]

Top of the list is fire Iger. He's an idiot.

 

[Donut23]

Let me start my post here by saying that I LOVE Disney. I always have and I always will. Whether they continue to compel me to want to spend my money on their property is explored a bit further in my post – but make no mistake about my deep love and affection for Disney.

I think the lack of unique development is a result of 2 contributing factors. Firstly – that the guys in charge of the parks and resorts are suits. They don’t care about the people in the parks. They truly see theme park goers as peons, and they try to run the parks and resorts from their spreadsheets. And if you want some proof – just take a look at the marketing campaign. Are Disneyland and Walt Disney World REALLY that homogenous that you can create a twofer marketing campaign by branding things as “Disney Parks”? I don’t believe they are. That decision was made ENTIRELY from a spreadsheet when someone made a discovery that for the same price as ONE marketing campaign, they could pitch both the east coast and west coast destinations.

The other contributing factor is that the parks and resorts division has become the cash cow for other failed business investments. (Go.com, The Family Channel, ESPN….) They’re forced to increase profit margins by giving less and charging more to cover losses in other divisions so that their shareholders can make a profit.

If you want to read more about this stuff – take a look at DisneyWar by James Stewart. FASCINATING read. He had unparalleled access to the upper management of Disney during the years when Roy Disney waged war against Eisner through the SaveDisney.com campaign.



I’ve stayed at value and moderate resorts. And I LOVE them.

But at the same time, I HATE them. When the Polynesian and Contemporary were first built, they by no means were cheap. But they weren’t that much more than off-property resorts. The price was FAIR. You were paying for a nice resort experience, a good room, AND the location. Then they built the Caribbean Beach Resort. And the rates that were being charged for the Polynesian, became the Caribbean Beach Resort rates. And the Polynesian and Contemporary became even more expensive. Then they built the value resorts. And moderate prices were now VALUE prices and both Caribbean Beach and the Polynesian (and by extension, other deluxe hotels) rates were jacked up again. For the same price as a Garden View room at the Grand Floridian – that’s a BASIC room with a less-than-spectacular view – you can get a luxury sweet with unlimited access to a BMW at an off-property hotel. I researched that a while ago – so I don’t remember which one.

No matter what – the Disney resorts are simply over-priced. I really wish they would make life easier on EVERYONE and lower the dang rates! The whole idea of charging obscene amounts of money and then offering a “great deal” (Monster PIN code, anyone? 40% off) to fill the rooms just REEKS of tactics used by slimy used car salesmen. (As a side note – used car salesmen need not be offended! Every profession has its share of bad apples – and I am using ONLY the bad apples as an example here. I am NOT talking about all used car salesmen!)

In any event, I hate those PIN codes with a passion. And not because I begrudge anybody a discount. What I hate is the very idea that a select few, chosen at what seems to be completely random, get a bargain while others get nothing. Make the offer to EVERYONE or don’t make it at all. Or, as I said, better yet – lower your rack rates to a REASONABLE price!!!!!



Well said! I’m just afraid that the Disney my daughter is getting to know is a pale comparison of what Disney used to be.



Walt actually had plans to build a ski lodge in Colorado. That’s where the Country Bear Jamboree came from. It was originally designed as an attraction for the Lodge that was never built.

I don’t have a problem with Disney building resorts away from the theme parks. It does allow them to offer something to people who don’t care about a theme park. Not to mention – there are TONS of Disney fans with family members who would sell portions of their anatomy to visit a non-theme park location. My wife wants to go to Hawaii and I do too. And I can say with almost absolute certainty, that we’ll probably end up at Aulani.



I rented DVC points at one point and the gentleman I rented from had to waitlist my request because his home resort was sold out. This was back in 2007. Things may have changed since then – but I think if they’re building, Disney is finding a profit it.





Frankly, I think that the Three Caballeros fit into the Mexican Pavilion about as well as the three cows from Home on the Range would fit onto Big Thunder Mountain. Sure – you could find a reason to tie them in – but neither of these attractions were built as a showcase for animated characters.

For what it’s worth – I don’t think the Magic Carpets fit into Adventureland. It started out as a faithful, yet sanitized version of the jungles in the South Pacific and Southeast Asia. The imagineers worked hard to keep things real and make it seem as though you were there – without the mosquitos and the diseases they brought with them. Then they plopped down the Magic Carpets. Yes – Aladdin loosely ties in there – but only if it were a live action film. It wasn’t a cartoon location. And I don’t find the Mexican pavilion to be a cartoon location either.



AMEN, sister! 

My daughter LOVES Universal. She loved the pool at Portofino Bay. She LOVED Seuss Landing and could have easily spent a day there, just exploring. She LOVED the Curious George playground. And while she couldn’t ride it? She LOVED the whole Simpsons area. She adored looking at all the merchandise and seeing the Kwik-E-Mart. This was all on a trip where she turned 2 while we were traveling. She also LOVED spending time in the Jurassic Park Discovery Center. She met Spiderman – and I SWEAR that, to her, was bigger than eating with the princesses at Disney. She loved it.



I’m not getting upset – but I visit Universal as often as I visit Disney and I have NEVER, EVER seen what you’re describing. I’ve had a lot of interaction with Universal team members and have found them to be extremely polite, helpful and friendly. In fact – one trip, we were spending the day at Universal while staying at the Polynesian. My wife and I both had bug bites all over us. From Universal we called housekeeping and asked that the sheets be changed. Housekeeping actually gave us attitude about it! They insisted their properties didn’t have bugs, and we had left the doors open. We then went to activate our Universal annual passes and the Guest Services Team Member was WONDERFUL. It was a stark contrast to what I had just experienced on the phone with Disney. And I won’t even get into the difference in the staff at the Universal resorts as opposed to Disney resorts. Universal blows Disney AWAY. Or actually, I should say, Loews blows Disney AWAY.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but in all the times I’ve visited Universal, I have yet to see the horror at the Universal parks that is described on the Disney Theme Parks board.



I see this kind of remark all the time and I truly don’t understand it. I’ve visited Six Flags. Their game is pure, bare-bones, thrill. That’s NOT what Universal is about. Just heading into the Studios – it’s gone now – but on Twister, you NEVER moved. You watched a show. On Shrek, you’re in a seat that shakes – but it never actually moves. It’s still bolted to the same spot on the floor. The Mummy is absolutely a coaster. As is Rip, Ride Rockit. A Day in the Park with Barney, E.T., Animal Actors on Location, Fievel’s Playground, Woody Woodpecker’s Coaster, Curious George – ALL appropriate for little ones. Disaster is a slow moving train that shakes from an earthquake. This is NO different than catastrophe canyon. Jaws is a slow moving boat ride. Yes, there’s a shark – but I certainly wouldn’t call this a thrill. I would say it’s about on par with Dinosaur. The Simpsons is a simulator. No different than Star Tours. Then there’s Men in Black. It’s a slow moving vehicle that sometimes spins. Out of fifteen rides – only TWO provide actual “thrill” in terms of roller coaster. And this is only the rides! I threw in a few shows – but there’s a bunch more. I could go through the Islands of Adventure – but to say that Universal is on par with Six Flags is terms of providing visceral thrill ONLY is just baseless. When comparing Universal Studios against Hollywood Studios? I think that Universal Studios comes out on top in EVERY aspect. It has rides that are just as good, and in some cases better than what’s provided at Hollywood Studios – and as a movie park, I think it blows Hollywood Studios out of the water.

And again I say – I love Disney. I also love Universal. But I truly think that you don’t have to like one at the expense of the other. And if you really think that Universal and Disney aren’t in competition – think again. They are. And that’s a GOOD thing for the consumer. It keeps both companies on their toes.

Reading this is like listening to the conclusion of the 1812 Oveture!

Bravo!!

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

WDW will always be first in my heart, and where I prefer to go on a theme park vacation. I've been to Universal (pre-Potter). Universal is nice, but no way am I ever considering packing up the family and heading to FL for a Universal vacation. Disney is and will always be my destination. Universal will be a frivolous excursion that I try every few years.

Having said that, Disney has dropped the ball in terms of adding creative attractions in the recent past. Universal has out-themed them with some recent additions, and out-classed them with imaginative rides like Spiderman. TSMM and Everest are wonderful, but that is simply not good enough. My theory is that if Disney built more wonderful attractions at a faster rate, then they wouldn't have to give away their food in order to get people to go there.

Disney charges too much to stand pat. This new Fantasyland redux should be nice. But for all the hoopla it is essentially a new restaurant, some fairy and princess meet-n-greets, one new attraction, and two refurbs (Dumbo and Barnstormer). I hope that works out for them, but the fairy/princess makeover is not going to attract or mean a lot to all families.

 

[WDSearcher]

I guess I agree with the OP and some others to a point, but I think it's important to remember that there's a lot going on behind the scenes at Disney that affects the experience we all have as guests ... stuff that is innovative and cutting-edge, but that we do not see. There are green technologies, costuming innovations, fireworks innovations, lighting updates, bubble zone audio for parades ... all sorts of other things that impact how we experience the World but aren't new rides or character meals. Just look at the Castle Lights, IllumiNations globe and Osborne lights -- all of those were converted to energy efficient LEDs over the past two years, which made them brighter and sharper and improved the "show" for guests. It's also way ahead of anything Universal is doing from a show lighting standpoint, yet Disney gets no credit for that because it's not a ride?

In the past few years, Disney has added TSMM, Turtle Talk and Monsters Inc, the new articulated character heads (which they're currently testing for meet & greets), new fountain technologies with World of Color in California ... are people really thinking that those things are not new and innovative? Disney has developed and tested queueless systems and other queue line concepts unlike what anyone else is doing. They've got interactive things like Kim Possible -- who else does that?

Someone said, "the people that frequent WDW are BEGGING for renovation and innovation of the old days." Well ... yeah. Isn't that why Fantasyland is being reconceptualized and rebuilt? Just because what Disney is doing isn't exactly what YOU may want them to be doing doesn't mean they're not doing anything.

Another quote: "Across the country we have Disneyland where they added a new fireworks show (which I admit to be excited for), and are creating Little Mermaid and Cars Land. Do we really a whole land dedicated to Cars?"

• Well ... WDW brought in a new fireworks show for the summer (with some very cool tech and effects), but look at the number of people already hoping and praying for Wishes to come back in the fall. Why should WDW replace a fireworks show that people clearly still love?
• Disneyland's "new" fireworks are the same firewowrks they did last year, btw ... just with a new name. (If what mean by "new fireworks show" is World of Color, that's a fountain show, not fireworks. And that new fountain technology is being looked at for other Disney parks as well.)
• DL is creating a Little Mermaid ride ... so is WDW in the new re-imagined Fantasyland.
• And why a whole land dedicated to Cars? Because boys seem to love all things Cars, and people keep harping on how much Disney does NOT have for boys. Cars Land will be, basically, a living replica of Radiator Springs, which I'm really looking forward to.

Some of us are getting a bit sick of pirates, but I have no doubt that there will be a LOT more pirate stuff coming up. Still ... Disney doesn't just wake up one day and say, "Let's toss a pirate thing together." It takes time to develop things and there's a lot in the fire already. Look how long it took Universal to build Harry Potter. Of course, now that it's there, people forget the years and years where there was basically nothing happening at Universal or IOA and they harp at Disney for "falling behind".

I think if you really took a look at what has come into WDW and all the Disney parks worldwide in the past, say, five years -- in rides, backstage technologies, interactive experiences, and operations, you'd find that a whole lot of innovation has been going on and that Disney isn't lagging behind at all.

 

[WDSearcher]

Disney charges too much to stand pat. This new Fantasyland redux should be nice. But for all the hoopla it is essentially a new restaurant, some fairy and princess meet-n-greets, one new attraction, and two refurbs (Dumbo and Barnstormer). I hope that works out for them, but the fairy/princess makeover is not going to attract or mean a lot to all families.

Isn't that really all Harry Potter World is? A new restaurant, some wizard and wand-seller meet-n-greets, one new attraction and two refurbs?

 

[KellyNY]

Isn't that really all Harry Potter World is? A new restaurant, some wizard and wand-seller meet-n-greets, one new attraction and two refurbs?

Not exactly. It is a highly emersive area representing wizarding world, idea which Disney for some reason neglected to develope having so many wizards and witches in their pocket. It is new and unique in contrast to princesses. What is new about MK expansion? Nothing.

 

[d1gitman]

..When Walt was alive, he was the idea guy. He didn't care AT ALL how much something would cost, how many guests it would draw, how much money it would make, etc. All he cared about was whether or not people would love it.....

really? that's quite some insight into the man. personally my money is on Walt also watching the bottom line. Maybe not as much as others, each has their own talents, but i find it hard to believe he didn't care at all.

 

[flicx]

I'm glad to see that some others agree that disney charges alot.I have been blasted for stating that in the past.That being said I think universal and disney work hand in hand to get customers to florida.Alot of people do both when in florida,I think one compliments the other.If Iger truly thinks that the fantasyland refurb is about all the refurbing they need for awhile he must truly be living in fantasyland!I like alot of the places posters have put on the list of needing some help,I agree with alot of them! I hope some of the disney execs read these posts as I know there are alot of great ideas and feedback available here!

 

[kmk1180]

Isn't that really all Harry Potter World is? A new restaurant, some wizard and wand-seller meet-n-greets, one new attraction and two refurbs?

yep.

Not exactly. It is a highly emersive area representing wizarding world, idea which Disney for some reason neglected to develope having so many wizards and witches in their pocket. It is new and unique in contrast to princesses. What is new about MK expansion? Nothing.

Someone is under some kind of dilusion charm.
That's ok, enjoy it
But your definately not looking at it with honest eyes.
It's 1 new ride, and a bunch of shop.

Heck what's it's a 2 hour wait without any kind of fast pass system.
and it's brand new.
TSMM, Soarin and EE all would have that and more without FP, and all of them are several years old.
Let's see what HPland is like 2 years after that last movie comes out next summer.

 

[d1gitman]

...If Iger truly thinks that the fantasyland refurb is about all the refurbing they need for awhile he must truly be living in fantasyland!

just remember, Iger is a talking head. like many publicly held corporations, things are stated in order to appease the shareholders. i wouldn't get hung up on what Iger or any other talking head says about future decisions.

 

[Limetree]

Is is apparent reading some of these posts just how good Disney is at brainwashing. Praise the mouse, praise the mouse, praise the mouse.

Number 1 thing Disney does best - Brainwashing.

 

[KellyNY]

yep.




Someone is under some kind of dilusion charm.
That's ok, enjoy it
But your definately not looking at it with honest eyes.
It's 1 new ride, and a bunch of shop.

Is that a personal attack, are you calling me delusional?
Have you even been to Universal or it is lame because it is Universal? I do not compare WWOHP to EE or Soarin but to MK expansion. I bet if Disney was doing Harry Potter, everyone would be excited but since it is Universal, well, enough said. Why people cannot enjoy both worlds, is it so necessary to pick sides. Childish.

 

[Birdman1511]

Is it a crime to just say both Disney and Universal are a heck of a good time?

 

[KellyNY]

Is is apparent reading some of these posts just how good Disney is at brainwashing. Praise the mouse, praise the mouse, praise the mouse.

Number 1 thing Disney does best - Brainwashing.

With only 4 posts, you will be flamed, called troll and so on... BUT I support you 100% on your statement.

 

[Luvchefmic]

Is is apparent reading some of these posts just how good Disney is at brainwashing. Praise the mouse, praise the mouse, praise the mouse.

Number 1 thing Disney does best - Brainwashing.

With only 4 posts, you will be flamed, called troll and so on... BUT I support you 100% on your statement.

As a long time AP holder.....cheese anyone ? I wouldn't have it any other way

 

[DisneyNicole]

Universal with never conquer over Dis. I was never impressed with Universal.
Don't worry, they're not.

 

[BEASLYBOO]

Is it a crime to just say both Disney and Universal are a heck of a good time?

No, absolutely not! I love them both for different reasons without having to bash one or the other! I also love Sea World. I'll wait till the newness wears off and go to Universal for Harry Potter. Yes, they refurbished a ride but it's no different than Disney's Lilo & Stich ride which was equally lame when it was Alien, the Extras Terrestial.

O.K jus a little bashing! Sorry!

 

[morethananyonex]

I grew up with Disney, it's basically in my blood. I could go over and over again and still have a great time, as I'm sure most of you could. The last time I visited Universal was way back in 1991 or 1992 (when I was a baby). I felt like I needed to start with that, so no one thinks I don't absolutely love Disney, because I do.

I'll start with Universal. While I'm sure the Harry Potter area is amazing for a Harry Potter fan, I bet Star Tours was pretty cool to Star Wars fans back then too. I know Star Tours is only one ride, but my point is Harry Potter is drawing crazy crowds NOW but where is it going to be in 20 years? IMO Universal is MILES away from creating a park as timeless as the Magic Kingdom. I don't think one small section in a park is a huge threat to what Disney has going.

I'll admit during my earlier teen years I begged my parents for a day or two at Universal because of the roller coasters and thrill rides that Disney just didn't have, but guess what? That phase ended, and at 20 I would be have to be dragged off property to lose a Disney day to something else . Universal and Disney are competitors in the sense that they are both theme parks in Florida, but IMO that's where it ends. It's very hard to compare the two parks except on aspects such as staff, food, and other general things.

On the other hand, Disney can't survive on the success of the "Disney Feeling" forever, you know? They know they have many loyal customers, and I think they're coasting on that a bit. What's going to happen when the loyal customers die and they haven't made the same connections with new customers?

I don't think Disney's falling behind has anything to do with Universal or HP (did I say that already? I can't remember, this is getting long ), it has to do with Disney. As many people have mentioned, they are not the Disney they used to be. What would you say if you were asked to name classic attractions, or even your favourites? Sure some might say TSM, but what about the mountains, haunted mansion, everest, pirates, soarin, test track, etc.? My point is, the majority of their most popular attractions aren't based on the latest fad or movie, and that's where current Disney is going wrong. They're falling behind in the sense that they fail to live up to their innovative and creative rides of the past, instead they rely on basing attractions on movies they already know to be successful.

Personally, I would hate to see them "keep up" with Harry Potter by building something based on a movie or franchise. That's Universal's thing, and they do it well. The Disney rides I know and love aren't about taking an already established idea and running with it, I want them to do what Disney does best, something completely their own. Those attractions stand the test of time, while eventually Potter mania will die down to the level of other fandoms (like Star Wars).

And on a side note, I think a lot of the Universal hates stems from those tacky ad campaigns they did that bashed Disney. That left a bad taste in a lot of Disney fan's mouths.

 

[Goofy's_Biggest_Fan]

When you consider the possibility of a 5th park, it seems a little far-fetched given the fact that EPCOT Future World, DHS, and AK could all use expansions/major additions.

Part of the problem is that there are folks like some of us who enjoy the classic attractions (CoP, PotC, Jungle Cruise, etc.), the experience of strolling down Main Street as you enjoy small town Americana, wandering through World Showcase, or enjoying the boat ride from DHS to the World Showcase. We go to Disney for the slower pace and the whole Disney ambiance. Others discover that they want thrill rides and a faster pace. US seems to meet those folks' wants and needs. We love the slower pace and therefore have never really felt tempted to check out Universal Studios.

As much as we love Disney, however, I see areas that can be improved to keep the interest of the general public. In order for Disney to succeed (not necessarily compete), they need to keep in mind what made them on top to begin with, and stick to their forte: family fun at a slower pace. Now, they can do that using state of the art engineering, robotics, and electronics.

A new pavillion in EPCOT's Future World could bring in a corporate sponsor like Nintendo or Sony and focus on virtual reality or some other cutting edge technology (audio research?). A partnership with Apple, for example, could result in pavillion focusing on computer technology. The original pavillion like Wold of Motion, Horizons, Wonders of Life, etc., were great ideas. Once they became the least bit dated, they simply lost sponsors, and rather than aggressively seeking new sponsors and refurbishing existing pavillions, Disney chose to either demolish and rebuild (Test Track and Mission Space), or simply close (Wonders of Life). Much technology that once was considered science fiction is now reality. Why not tap in to some of that?

DHS would be an easy fix: simply bring back animation and live TV production back to WDW. If actual animators would be working on actual future Disney features, it might renew some interest about the park. And you can't tell me that with the popularity of The Disney Channel, that if a series or two were filmed on property, where guests could watch live tapings (and maybe even catch a glimpse or two of real-life celebrities while in the park), that it wouldn't generate interest. And a National Treasure movie franchise attraction wouldn't hurt DHS either.

I realize money is the driving force in all these ideas. But marketing takes money, and makes money. And if there is one thing Disney knows how to do, it is market.