RANT: I don't care if you want to sit next to your kids on the airplane

[NHdisneylover]

I used to love the aisle, but then found it annoying when I had to keep getting up for the people in my row to use the rest room. I didn't want to close my eyes and nap in case they needed to get up, plus all the people walking by gets annoying too.

I love the aisle. I also find getting up and walking/stretching in flight to be really helpful. So, I am happy to get up for the people between me and the window to let peopel use the restroom---I even make a point of telling those seated next to me that I like to get up and stretch so not to hesitate to ask me if they need out.

 

[Gracie09]

So if I am on an international ticket I have the Air NZ luggage allowance through the whole way for no extra cost, 2x23kg items per person all "baby" items free (strollers, car seats etc)
If book to LA then book separately to Orlando I would have to pay $25USD a bag each way for those bags, and in some countries the domestic luggage allowance (internally in NZ is an example) only allows 1 bag.





So @SirDuff and @maxiesmom would you be ok if airlines started charging $100 to use the bathroom?
I mean you have a choice, you could just hold or use an adult diaper right?
And airlines have to make money out of these sorts of extra charges or they will go bust?

Have you called the code share airline. When DH traveled internationally, often he was able to call the code share airline and get seats assigned.
And I think your second point is ridiculous to the point that you really lose all credibility with your arguments.
Although when one airline proposed a fee, the public outcry made them back off quickly. And US Congress has already proposed a bill regarding this in 2015. I suspect if an airline attempted to do this, a bill would quickly be passed knocking it down.

 

[bookgirl]

I generally fly SWA and I do pay for EBC because I like the Window (a little extra room and I like to control the window shade). I am a kid magnet. It does not fail. If there is a baby-preschooler on the plane their parents will sit in my row or the row before or after. Everytime! hahaha.

It's okay I don't mind. I taught special ed and I still can pull teacher face in a heartbeat. I"m not scared of anyone's kid and I have good earphones and a book/tablet to keep me occupied. Usually though I end up talking to the kid or being amused by their antics. I like kids so, no biggie if I have to share space with them.

That being said, I would not switch to a middle. An aisle, probably, but no middle and no bulkhead.

That would also turn to a no to any change if my mom were with me. Her flying anxiety trumps any request.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Encountered something interesting on a flight last week. I have twins, 7. We don't pay for seat selection but are seated together because we are frequent fliers--I figure it's a courtesy the airline extends. Anyway, I got up to use the washroom with my daughter, leaving my son on his own. Dad was across the aisle and one row back. The flight attendant was very anxious and said to dh that son "was not allowed to be on his own." Dh had to relocate until I returned. If that is truly the regulation, there should be no reason for the airline to ever charge people for the "privilege" of sitting with their young children. It is not a privilege according to this flight attendant, but a regulation.

My understanding was always that under the age of two required complete parental supervision. With twins, we always had to take the kids with us when going to the washroom. Always had to maintain the one to one ratio.

I've always believed that charging parents to exercise a legal obligation to their children was wrong.

We had a similar situation many years ago. we had two sets of two seats a few roaws apart. The kids (probably about 8 and 10 at that point) wanted to sit together to play a card game. DH and i sat together the few rows ahead of them (well within ear shot and visual when I turned around to look). The flight attendent tried to make us put one adult and one child together and said that kids were not allowed to sit without parents right nex to them. We asked why, on our flight down the prior week we had been placed in four totally unconnected seats by the airline if that was the case? She huffed off and spent much of the flight talking loudly to the man two rows ahead about how sad it was that there are parents on this flight who don't even like their kids or want to spend time with them (nope--we just spent a vacation all together at WDW; I homeschooled, we spent tons of time together, but the kids wanted to play cards with one another not us boring adults lol)

 

[Gracie09]

I've never seen a flight attendant even notice that, so that's kind of odd. I've sat next to young kids a lot. I mean not super young but easily 6 or 7.

I mean if you aren't in your seat, you're probably in the toilet...

Yup, I have left one child alone in a seat while I took the other to the bathroom. What else are you supposed to do? You can't really even fit two people in there never mind three. And what if you were traveling alone.

 

[quandrea]

Yup, I have left one child alone in a seat while I took the other to the bathroom. What else are you supposed to do? You can't really even fit two people in there never mind three. And what if you were traveling alone.

I agree. We travel frequently and I found it odd. I do know the regulation is in place for under the age of two, but beyond that, who really knows? Before the twins were two, I wouldn't have been able to travel alone.

 

[anniemae]

I love the aisle. I also find getting up and walking/stretching in flight to be really helpful. So, I am happy to get up for the people between me and the window to let peopel use the restroom---I even make a point of telling those seated next to me that I like to get up and stretch so not to hesitate to ask me if they need out.

Thats great if you don't mind, but I usually try to nap. I can't do that if I am constantly wondering if someone needs me to move so they can get out. Sitting by the window, I don't have to worry about it. Plus, I get a little extra room and can lean against the side of the plane. Sitting by the aisle, you can't really lean either way. I also hate everyone walking by me up and down the aisle.

 

[SirDuff]

So @SirDuff and @maxiesmom would you be ok if airlines started charging $100 to use the bathroom?
I mean you have a choice, you could just hold or use an adult diaper right?
And airlines have to make money out of these sorts of extra charges or they will go bust?

Nice stretch there But not even the right analogy. The right analogy would be paying $100 less for a ticket and not being able to use the bathroom. Still a silly argument which makes me assume that you don't have anything reasonable to say, so you resort to that, but at least the right analogy. And, no, in that situation, I wouldn't take the discount. In BCLA's I may have taken or I may not have. As I said, he made a very reasonable choice in choosing money over being able to select seats, but he cannot pretend that it wasn't a choice (which he was doing).

 

[asta]

We had a similar situation many years ago. we had two sets of two seats a few roaws apart. The kids (probably about 8 and 10 at that point) wanted to sit together to play a card game. DH and i sat together the few rows ahead of them (well within ear shot and visual when I turned around to look). The flight attendent tried to make us put one adult and one child together and said that kids were not allowed to sit without parents right nex to them. We asked why, on our flight down the prior week we had been placed in four totally unconnected seats by the airline if that was the case? She huffed off and spent much of the flight talking loudly to the man two rows ahead about how sad it was that there are parents on this flight who don't even like their kids or want to spend time with them (nope--we just spent a vacation all together at WDW; I homeschooled, we spent tons of time together, but the kids wanted to play cards with one another not us boring adults lol)

This reminds me of a flight a few years ago. There were three children in the row behind us who raised holy heck the whole flight. It was good natured fun. A lot of very loud laughter, some shouting, but those kids were having very excited, loud fun. A lady about five rows in front turned around once and gave them the evil eye and told them to be quiet. I could not tell if she was the mother or just tired of all the noise. I remember being amused trying to figure out if she was the mother and knew not to sit with the kids for a little peace and quiet.

 

[sam_gordon]

So @SirDuff and @maxiesmom would you be ok if airlines started charging $100 to use the bathroom?
I mean you have a choice, you could just hold or use an adult diaper right?
And airlines have to make money out of these sorts of extra charges or they will go bust?

Not even nearly the same. The customer has a choice of whether to purchase a ticket on an airline that charges for a bathroom use. Just like a parent has a choice (before they buy the ticket) of whether to purchase an assigned seat.

 

[maxiesmom]

[QUOTE="mummabear, post: 57641221, member: 427350"

So @SirDuff and @maxiesmom would you be ok if airlines started charging $100 to use the bathroom?
I mean you have a choice, you could just hold or use an adult diaper right?
And airlines have to make money out of these sorts of extra charges or they will go bust?[/QUOTE]

As another poster pointed out, you are really reaching, and your comparison is nonsensical.

The thing is, if you need to have seats together, then book seats together. Don't expect to get a freebie because you have a child age 3/11/16 along with you, yet everyone else has to pay. What I find ridiculous is that a parent can choose to fly someone as young as 5 totally alone, but heaven forbid they not be able to sit right next to them when they are flying together. That makes no sense at all!

 

[NHdisneylover]

This reminds me of a flight a few years ago. There were three children in the row behind us who raised holy heck the whole flight. It was good natured fun. A lot of very loud laughter, some shouting, but those kids were having very excited, loud fun. A lady about five rows in front turned around once and gave them the evil eye and told them to be quiet. I could not tell if she was the mother or just tired of all the noise. I remember being amused trying to figure out if she was the mother and knew not to sit with the kids for a little peace and quiet.

lol
I promise it was a QUIET card game. I even waited until the person seated at the window arrived and told her where we were and let her know to please tell me if the kids botehred her. She slept the entire flight---they musn't have been overly loud

 

[bcla]

As another poster pointed out, you are really reaching, and your comparison is nonsensical.

The thing is, if you need to have seats together, then book seats together. Don't expect to get a freebie because you have a child age 3/11/16 along with you, yet everyone else has to pay. What I find ridiculous is that a parent can choose to fly someone as young as 5 totally alone, but heaven forbid they not be able to sit right next to them when they are flying together. That makes no sense at all!

You're reaching now. By July 15, 2017 the DOT should have a final plan to require that children 13 or younger be allowed adjacent seating at no extra cost (i.e. no premium window/aisle charge) with someone over 13. It's Public Law 114-190, which was HR 636 - passed July 15, 2016.

https://www.congress.gov/114/plaws/publ190/PLAW-114publ190.pdf

SEC. 2309. FAMILY SEATING.

(a) IN GENERAL.—Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Transportation shall review and, if appropriate, establish a policy directing all air carriers providing scheduled passenger interstate or intrastate air transportation to establish policies that enable a child, who is age 13 or under on the date an applicable flight is scheduled to occur, to be seated in a seat adjacent to the seat of an accompanying family member over the age of 13, to the maximum extent practicable and at no additional cost, except when assignment to an adjacent seat would require an upgrade to another cabin class or a seat with extra legroom or seat pitch for which additional payment is normally required.

(b) EFFECT ON AIRLINE BOARDING AND SEATING POLICIES.— When considering any new policy under this section, the Secretary shall consider the traditional seating and boarding policies of air carriers providing scheduled passenger interstate or intrastate air transportation and whether those policies generally allow families to sit together.

(c) STATUTORY CONSTRUCTION.—Notwithstanding the requirement in subsection (a), nothing in this section may be construed to allow the Secretary to impose a significant change in the overall seating or boarding policy of an air carrier providing scheduled passenger interstate or intrastate air transportation that has an open or flexible seating policy in place that generally allows adjacent family seating as described in subsection (a).​

Most airlines do in fact hold back some seats that can't be selected until either check-in time or only by an airline employee. I've been through that on a regional jet where there was no option for premium seats because it was all aisle or window. All we could select were scattered. When I got to the gate, one seat next to one of ours magically became available. This is all planned for in order to accommodate families with children or any passenger who might require an attendant. Heck - if it's a disabled passenger requiring an attendant, the attendant legally flies for free.

 

[maxiesmom]

I know I'm reaching to expect people to be responsible for their own kids. And to not book a flight if they can't pick seats next to their kids. To put their kids over a few $$$ in their pocket. Sad, isn't it?

Btw, that knew rule isn't going to do much at all. They are still leaving it up to the airline.

 

[tjmw2727]

Yup, I have left one child alone in a seat while I took the other to the bathroom. What else are you supposed to do? You can't really even fit two people in there never mind three. And what if you were traveling alone.

I am a single mom and traveled as the solo adult with my kids since they were 2 and 4 and never had an issue taking one or the other to the bathroom. In fact on flights with a 2/2 seating I often sat them together to watch movies and play together while I sat directly across the aisle - probably once they were say 6/8 ish age range (not at 2 and 4 of course!). I would pick flights with rows of 3 whenever possible but there were some flights when that wasn't possible.

 

[bcla]

I know I'm reaching to expect people to be responsible for their own kids. And to not book a flight if they can't pick seats next to their kids. To put their kids over a few $$$ in their pocket. Sad, isn't it?

Btw, that knew rule isn't going to do much at all. They are still leaving it up to the airline.

Where does it say it's really up to the airline? It's supposed to be up to the Dept of Transportation to come up with the specifics for regulation, but it's supposed to be a uniform rule like how there's a federal requirement for denied boarding compensation. Each airline will establish a policy in it's contract of carriage, and if it doesn't meet the requirements of the regulation the DOT will make sure that it does. And I'm pretty sure most airlines will do it the easy way, which is to waive the window/aisle fees and/or guarantee a hold back.

The airlines specifically fought this legislation. Their rationale was that they already did what they could to accommodate families and that it wasn't necessarily. From experience I find that to be the case, but for the most part I think they like getting premium seating fees from families who don't want to take any chances.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Where does it say it's really up to the airline? It's supposed to be up to the Dept of Transportation to come up with the specifics for regulation, but it's supposed to be a uniform rule like how there's a federal requirement for denied boarding compensation. Each airline will establish a policy in it's contract of carriage, and if it doesn't meet the requirements of the regulation the DOT will make sure that it does. And I'm pretty sure most airlines will do it the easy way, which is to waive the window/aisle fees and/or guarantee a hold back.

The airlines specifically fought this legislation. Their rationale was that they already did what they could to accommodate families and that it wasn't necessarily. From experience I find that to be the case, but for the most part I think they like getting premium seating fees from families who don't want to take any chances.

I think it doesn't change things in the sense that it's not actually giving families what they want. Most aren't worried about their 3 year old sitting alone- most are worried about their party being split in general. Under the new rule, I could have been seated with my baby sister on the other side on the airplane from my parents. My parents would not have liked that. My mother would have wanted to be seated next to us and my dad would just not want to be seated next to strangers. And that's a common theme I see here.

I've had more couples or parents with teens ask me to switch than parents of young kids. So I'm betting that lots of people are looking at this ruling and saying great- as long as the youngest kid is under 13, we will all board together and be guaranteed seats together. They won't.

 

[mnrose]

I know I'm reaching to expect people to be responsible for their own kids. And to not book a flight if they can't pick seats next to their kids. To put their kids over a few $$$ in their pocket. Sad, isn't it?

Btw, that knew rule isn't going to do much at all. They are still leaving it up to the airline.

Not to mention the "if appropriate" language in the law. The Secretary of Transportation may decide it's not "appropriate." The only thing REQUIRED in the law is that the policies are reviewed. In the current anti-regulation environment in DC, I'd not place much hope on this one seeing the light of day.

Moreover, it DOES NOT SAY that they have to give "free" seats to the kids. If an airline charges for ALL seating, then the kid pays too. They just can't "force" an "extra" fee on them. And, of course, the lovely language "to the extent practical." This is a pretty meaningless law, and leaves wide discretion to whoever is running that agency. When the law was passed, it was a different administration with different priorities. Don't hold your breath on anything happening.

I find it very irritating when people HAVE the option to choose (and pay) for seats together, and then complain when it doesn't happen. That's a risk that EVERY passenger takes when not purchasing a seat in advance. I place in an entirely different category people who DO pay for seats and then because of an equipment change (or whatever) they "lose" their seats. Those passengers should be accommodated. I have zero sympathy for people who are too cheap to pay for seat assignments.

 

[bcla]

I think it doesn't change things in the sense that it's not actually giving families what they want. Most aren't worried about their 3 year old sitting alone- most are worried about their party being split in general. Under the new rule, I could have been seated with my baby sister on the other side on the airplane from my parents. My parents would not have liked that. My mother would have wanted to be seated next to us and my dad would just not want to be seated next to strangers. And that's a common theme I see here.

I've had more couples or parents with teens ask me to switch than parents of young kids. So I'm betting that lots of people are looking at this ruling and saying great- as long as the youngest kid is under 13, we will all board together and be guaranteed seats together. They won't.

I'm not too worried about people thinking that. That's more an issue of entitlement than anything else. The airlines wont be required to accommodate that and I'm pretty sure they won't. At age 13 I was easily OK with sitting alone on a plane.

I'd frankly prefer that airlines eliminate aisle or window seats as "premium". This might spur the airlines to do it and just price fares accordingly.

 

[bcla]

Not to mention the "if appropriate" language in the law. The Secretary of Transportation may decide it's not "appropriate."

Moreover, it DOES NOT SAY that they have to give "free" seats to the kids. If an airline charges for ALL seating, then the kid pays too. They just can't "force" an "extra" fee on them.

I find it very irritating when people HAVE the option to choose (and pay) for seats together, and then complain when it doesn't happen. That's a risk that EVERY passenger takes when not purchasing a seat in advance. I place in an entirely different category people who DO pay for seats and then because of an equipment change (or whatever) they "lose" their seats. Those passengers should be accommodated. I have zero sympathy for people who are too cheap to pay for seat assignments.

The language "Secretary" is typical of most laws regarding regulations. It's almost always delegated. I also would find it highly unlikely that this fairly simple requirement won't be deemed "appropriate".

I don't know what you're getting at about "free seating". The point is that economy is one class. Economy with legroom, business, or first are considered separate classes for this rule. It just means that when needed to place a "child" next to a guardian, the airlines can't charge extra for a window or aisle seat in the same row. That's what many families aren't doing to get seats together, because it's impossible to get two seats together without a fee when both window or aisle costs extra.

Most airlines don't specifically charge for seat assignments. They charge for premium seats (aisle/window) in the same row. Now I don't expect that it would allow my family of 3 to get an entire row of 3 together at the basic fare, but it might allow 2 together middle/aisle and another middle at the basic fare, or 3 together paying for only 1 premium seat when it would otherwise be 2 premium fees.

They'll have to figure out how this works with airlines that charge for seat selection before check-in (like Spirit). For the most part I don't think they have many people paying extra anyways. Those who don't pay for a seat choice don't get a choice at all, so they could easily hold back contiguous seats for anticipated kid's next to guardians.