RANT: I don't care if you want to sit next to your kids on the airplane

[bcla]

Yes, but you're comparing apples to oranges. I've never ridden a train where I can pick my specific seat. You can pick class. You can pick assigned seating or no assigned seating. But you can't pick the seat.

And people can get huffy all they like but they know they have to sit next to somebody. The couple in the plane example KNOWS someone could by the seat. That's different from paying for something and not getting it. It's no more justified to get angry over having someone sit next to you in open seating than it is to get angry over being separated from your group when you didn't pay for assigned seating.

Well - apparently in Europe and Asia it's possible to purchase a train ticket with an assigned seat. It's probably a lot easier on a train with limited stops. However, what I was getting at is that seating model where the conductor tells the passenger where to sit is actually pretty similar to the way airline travel used to work. You could always make a request once at the airport, but you didn't pay extra and you didn't always get what you wanted.

As for your mother, did you ever try asking an airline if they might waive or refund a seat selection fee? There is a lot of stuff that they will do in order to accommodate a passenger who may have a special need for a specific seat.

 

[bcla]

But again this is about the so called premium seating.
What is at this theatre it isn't that your friends are choosing premium But you are given no choice because each row is alternating premium and non premium seats.
In the theatre you are talking about if you book early enough you can choose to sit together in an non premium seat, in airlines you can't, thy have purposely made it so that in a group to sit together at least one person must choose a "premium" seat.

I was thinking that one way to avoid this would be if seating faced sideways and there would be a long row of middle seats. Might not be compliant with safety rules though. Most cars on the Disneyland Railroad have such a seating configuration, although a few face forward.

Your mother with her disabilities will have protections under the ADA, all parents are asking is for suitable protections for their children.
Airlines don't have anything to help anyone to or from the airport-what is our point?

Sure. I don't see why an airline might not waive the fee in order to be ADA compliant.

 

[Westcoastwild]

But again this is about the so called premium seating.
What is at this theatre it isn't that your friends are choosing premium But you are given no choice because each row is alternating premium and non premium seats.
In the theatre you are talking about if you book early enough you can choose to sit together in an non premium seat, in airlines you can't, thy have purposely made it so that in a group to sit together at least one person must choose a "premium" seat.



Wow such hostility.
No it isn't all giggles and hugs, hence why we want to sit next to our children to parent them.
The only reason the "premium" seating has been put in is to force groups to pay extra to sit together. And while when my husband and I can choose to save the money by not sitting next to each other, it isn't really a choice about whether or not we pay to sit next to our toddler, we are being strong armed into a fee, that was put i for just that purpose.



Your mother with her disabilities will have protections under the ADA, all parents are asking is for suitable protections for their children.
Airlines don't have anything to help anyone to or from the airport-what is our point?

Yes...but she's not guaranteed a seat at a cheaper price because of those disabilities. She has to pay for a premium seat because she can't just sit in any seat. That's my point. She has to pay for that seat. If such a seat is not available, we can't take that flight.

So if you don't pay for a premium seat to sit next to your kid, that is on you. Not the airline.

I'm sympathetic to parents travelling with really young children, and I acknowledge that some of those folks have no real choice in the matter. But I find it hilarious that we're arguing this on a Disney forum. Because it's not like you have to fly 20+ hours with your 3 year old to visit WDW. If it bothers you so much to pay that fee, why not vacation closer to home?

 

[Westcoastwild]

Well - apparently in Europe and Asia it's possible to purchase a train ticket with an assigned seat. It's probably a lot easier on a train with limited stops. However, what I was getting at is that seating model where the conductor tells the passenger where to sit is actually pretty similar to the way airline travel used to work. You could always make a request once at the airport, but you didn't pay extra and you didn't always get what you wanted.

As for your mother, did you ever try asking an airline if they might waive or refund a seat selection fee? There is a lot of stuff that they will do in order to accommodate a passenger who may have a special need for a specific seat.

Yes. In the case of a bumped flight, airlines will make it a priority for her to have a suitable seat. But they won't waive the fee for her to book the seat to begin with. So we fly airlines that have priority boarding (southwest) or we buy fares that are bundled. If you fly with kids, why buy an unbundled fare? That's what I'm getting at.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Well - apparently in Europe and Asia it's possible to purchase a train ticket with an assigned seat. It's probably a lot easier on a train with limited stops. However, what I was getting at is that seating model where the conductor tells the passenger where to sit is actually pretty similar to the way airline travel used to work. You could always make a request once at the airport, but you didn't pay extra and you didn't always get

But those seats that you can choose on those trains are a premium price. You can also buy a stripped ticket with unreserved seating in Asia but people know that opens you up to the risk of having to stand until a seat opens up.

I'm not sure what you're advocating. You want to go back to the "good old days" of not picking your seat, not paying for luggage and getting a free meal? So does everyone else but it isn't going to happen.

 

[SirDuff]

Slight modification to the not giving up seat for a child. I flew back from Asia today and had a child (she was four) join me in my seat mid-flight! I was watching Moana (I've flown far too many hours on United in the past couple of months and am desperate for new movies, but that's another rant) and, suddenly, felt a little hand on my leg, followed by a little body. Apparently, the child's mom had fallen asleep (it is a 13 hour flight) and the little one decided to explore. I was in Business, so room for her in my seat, having strange children sit on your lap is generally a bad plan. The FA came over and went to take the girl back to her seat (she had crossed the "magic curtain") just as the mum came running up to grab the girl (and apologize). I thought it was funny (and sweet) and we had a great conversation about Moana and Trolls.

Apparently, I attract small children as I've had the same thing happen in a book store and a library (in the latter, I was reading to my nephew when another little boy handed me a book and asked me to read it next).

 

[bcla]

But those seats that you can choose on those trains are a premium price. You can also buy a stripped ticket with unreserved seating in Asia but people know that opens you up to the risk of having to stand until a seat opens up.

I've taken a train in China, and although it wasn't assigned seating they didn't book more passengers than available seats.

As for flying with my kid, I don't typically pay a premium for seating and I'm not going to apologize for it. I won't pout if I can't get a seat next to my kid, but the airlines nearly always accommodate us. And when the new rule is implemented, I fully plan on taking advantage of it, and I'm not going to apologize for that either.

 

[sam_gordon]

You also cannot send a 2-3 year old as an unaccompanied minor.

OK, I'll give you your point. I agree children less than 5 should be required to sit with their parent. HOWEVER, if the parent is sitting in a "free seat" (for Delta, the middle seats in economy toward the front of the plane are no charge), the child shouldn't get the "premium" aisle/window for free.

Now, this bill that bcla keeps bringing up says 12yos (is it 13 & under or under 13) are required to sit with their parents. DW just dropped our 13yo off at the movies with friends. No parental supervision. I guess there should be a law requiring parental supervision for movie theaters? After all, we know bad things can happen there. And there are children who need supervised.

Most kids in the US ride a school bus. It's a pretty safe assumption that's the "norm". Why don't parents worry about the possible accident/emergency situation for the bus? What's the difference?

 

[bcla]

Apparently, I attract small children as I've had the same thing happen in a book store and a library (in the latter, I was reading to my nephew when another little boy handed me a book and asked me to read it next).

Even as a kid I would attract younger kids. I remember once on a sixth grade field trip I had some spending cash and bought some candy at an amusement park and shared it with my classmates who were there with me. Then a younger kid (not in our group) held his hand out until his mom pulled him back. I was 12 then, and I could appreciate the cuteness of the situation.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I've taken a train in China, and although it wasn't assigned seating they didn't book more passengers than available seats.

As for flying with my kid, I don't typically pay a premium for seating and I'm not going to apologize for it. I won't pout if I can't get a seat next to my kid, but the airlines nearly always accommodate us. And when the new rule is implemented, I fully plan on taking advantage of it, and I'm not going to apologize for that either.

And I'm totally okay with that. The key part there is that you DON'T pout. I'm also totally okay with that rule. I'm just not okay with the people who expect me to move to accommodate them. If you ask me to move, I won't be offended. I will be offended if I say no and you pout.

 

[sam_gordon]

People are often so willing to put up with any nonsense from the airlines. Service seems to be of little importance when it comes to this industry and I can't help but wonder why.

This is easy. The positives (shorter transportation time) outweigh the negatives (security screenings, prices, small spaces, baggage limits, etc). Why do people keep going to Disney despite more crowds, higher ticket prices, and a decline in service (overall, nothing in particular)?

 

[Kona65]

How about the person paid for the seat, and didn't want to move. Problem solved.

 

[Westcoastwild]

OK, I'll give you your point. I agree children less than 5 should be required to sit with their parent. HOWEVER, if the parent is sitting in a "free seat" (for Delta, the middle seats in economy toward the front of the plane are no charge), the child shouldn't get the "premium" aisle/window for free.

Now, this bill that bcla keeps bringing up says 12yos (is it 13 & under or under 13) are required to sit with their parents. DW just dropped our 13yo off at the movies with friends. No parental supervision. I guess there should be a law requiring parental supervision for movie theaters? After all, we know bad things can happen there. And there are children who need supervised.

Most kids in the US ride a school bus. It's a pretty safe assumption that's the "norm". Why don't parents worry about the possible accident/emergency situation for the bus? What's the difference?

It actually doesn't say parents. It says that the under 13 year old must sit adjacent to someone in the party over thirteen. So a 14 year old and toddler may be seated together but it's not guaranteed they'll be seated with their gaurdians.

 

[bcla]

OK, I'll give you your point. I agree children less than 5 should be required to sit with their parent. HOWEVER, if the parent is sitting in a "free seat" (for Delta, the middle seats in economy toward the front of the plane are no charge), the child shouldn't get the "premium" aisle/window for free.

Now, this bill that bcla keeps bringing up says 12yos (is it 13 & under or under 13) are required to sit with their parents. DW just dropped our 13yo off at the movies with friends. No parental supervision. I guess there should be a law requiring parental supervision for movie theaters? After all, we know bad things can happen there. And there are children who need supervised.

Well - that's a poor analogy since several airlines allow a kid under 14 to travel alone without an unaccompanied minor fee. Each airline might have a different age though - Southwest sets it at 12.

The law (passed last year and about to approach the 1 year deadline for implementation) applies to what to do when a child 13 or younger is accompanied on the same reservation with a traveling companion over 13. I kind of avoid the use of "parent" because the law seems to allow that the older accompanying passenger could be an older relative such as a sibling, cousin, etc. who may legally be a minor. The law doesn't address what to do if the child is traveling alone or with other kids under the magic age of 14. It doesn't even state that passengers have to be booked on the same reservation, although the selection of seats together would seem to be more practical to set up if on the same reservation. Some airlines can link different reservations together though.

And if you read the law, it does pretty much imply that a window/aisle seat should be selectable for free should one of the passengers be 13 or younger. The language was "to be seated in a seat adjacent to the seat of an accompanying family member over the age of 13, to the maximum extent practicable and at no additional cost".

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/636/text?overview=closed

 

[Gracie09]

But again this is about the so called premium seating.
What is at this theatre it isn't that your friends are choosing premium But you are given no choice because each row is alternating premium and non premium seats.
In the theatre you are talking about if you book early enough you can choose to sit together in an non premium seat, in airlines you can't, thy have purposely made it so that in a group to sit together at least one person must choose a "premium" seat.



Wow such hostility.
No it isn't all giggles and hugs, hence why we want to sit next to our children to parent them.
The only reason the "premium" seating has been put in is to force groups to pay extra to sit together. And while when my husband and I can choose to save the money by not sitting next to each other, it isn't really a choice about whether or not we pay to sit next to our toddler, we are being strong armed into a fee, that was put i for just that purpose.



Your mother with her disabilities will have protections under the ADA, all parents are asking is for suitable protections for their children.
Airlines don't have anything to help anyone to or from the airport-what is our point?

not hostile just sick of parents using kids as an excuse - and I have 2 of my own. DH is 6'7" he does not fit in most economy sits so we have to pay for an upgrade for him. BTW airplanes are not covered under the ADA. So choosing to have kids includes the choice to sometimes pay more for things. There are usually plenty of economy seats available in the back of the plane that you don't have to pay for. And some airline don't charge for economy seats, choose to fly one of them.

 

[bcla]

It actually doesn't say parents. It says that the under 13 year old must sit adjacent to someone in the party over thirteen. So a 14 year old and toddler may be seated together but it's not guaranteed they'll be seated with their gaurdians.

We'll have to wait for the details. However, one child getting an adjacent seat with one companion would seem to be a no-brainer to meet the requirement. If I were to guess, two children with one parent might also be able to get a typical window/middle/aisle row together without paying the premium.

 

[dotfurio]

Now THAT I can get behind a law for.

As far as second graders being able to manage for themselves in an emergency, I go back to how many kids ride a school bus daily with a HIGHER possibility for an emergency to happen. Should every parent ride the school bus with their kids?

An emergency on a bus is a lot different than an emergency on a plane. The only people around to help are also experiencing the emergency. If a bus is in an accident you quickly have good Sams and emergency personnel on hand. I just think the two don't compare.

I also think it's weird so many people think families shouldn't mind travelling apart. I get some people prefer to, but wouldn't it be weird if we boarded an amtrak, greyhound, or ship and DIDN'T sit together? It just seems really odd to me. I don't mind paying more to sit together. In fact, I paid for seats together before they moved us around, and then I paid more for seats together in the next class up because "unfortunately your class is now sold out but the next class up is empty!" It was worth it to me so I don't have to worry if my kid is going to end up next to Mary Poppins or (more likely) a grump who couldn't care less what's up with my kid.

 

[Skippy918]

I booked airline tickets a couple of months ago on delta and had no problems getting 3 seats across for me and the 2 kids in the non premium section. According to the seat map, the first few rows are premium but the rest was not. I didn't need to pay extra to seat us all together.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I booked airline tickets a couple of months ago on delta and had no problems getting 3 seats across for me and the 2 kids in the non premium section. According to the seat map, the first few rows are premium but the rest was not. I didn't need to pay extra to seat us all together.

Yup. So I don't know why people are upset about extra fees- it really is a choice. You can purchase an economy fare that includes seat assignment and there are plenty of adjacent seats to book families in. You just can't pick an unbundled fare that does not include seat assignment and expect to be seated with your family. (Delta now sells those, I think).

 

[bcla]

I booked airline tickets a couple of months ago on delta and had no problems getting 3 seats across for me and the 2 kids in the non premium section. According to the seat map, the first few rows are premium but the rest was not. I didn't need to pay extra to seat us all together.

Depends on the airline. Some have gone to a model where every window or aisle seat can only be selected before check-in with an additional fee. They'll be up for grabs later. On top of that, many seats are held back until check-in, including window or aisle seats, so the available seating choices may not reflect every empty seat. It can create some really weird seating availability. Some passengers might even decline the choices if all that's available are premium, and then see what happens at check-in time.

The really weird thing is that at check-in time, many passenger get upgrades that will release their seats. They will often be higher status fliers who get free premium seats, so there might even be better seats at a time when they don't change a premium for them.