Recent polls about "Millenials"

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Gotcha’! I took your citing your personal experience as a legitimate reason not to believe the polls — my mistake, I guess.

Well... We can't all be geniuses like myself.

It's cool LOL.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Well... We can't all be geniuses like myself.

It's cool LOL.

I like you!!

 

[manning]

So, in the past week, I have heard of two recent polls about Millenials, and here is what they concluded:

Poll #1: 1/3 of Millenials believe the earth is flat

Poll #2: 41% of Millenials have NO idea that 6 Million Jews were killed during the Holocaust

Discuss...

Personally, I just can't come to grips with this actually being true. I might be in serious denial about how little people are learning in school nowadays, but also, how is Poll #1 even REMOTELY plausible????

Earth is flat? then explain those mountains

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

I like you!!

Thanks!

I am actually really good at biology. Not case studies with stats though

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Thanks!

I am actually really good at biology. Not case studies with stats though

I much preferred Bio to stats!

 

[superme80]

I believe the Holocaust poll. I took a history class in the early 2000s. I was in my early 20s. The majority of the class had never heard of the holocaust or only heard if it happening. They knew no details or why it happened. As for millennials, I know they get a bad wrap. I am Generation Y or something lame like that (1980). I think we pick on millennials because we have no real generation and we are bitter!

 

[lifesavacation]

Re the Holocaust: It’s so hard to believe that high schoolers wouldn’t know the basic facts I’m in my 40s and I still remember the video shown during my high school history class. I wonder if schools have changed how it’s taught because they think it’s too brutal (not the right word but I can’t think of a better one). I really believe in exposing the real, raw truth of what happened so we don’t forget what people can be capable of.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I believe the Holocaust poll. I took a history class in the early 2000s. I was in my early 20s. The majority of the class had never heard of the holocaust or only heard if it happening. They knew no details or why it happened. As for millennials, I know they get a bad wrap. I am Generation Y or something lame like that (1980). I think we pick on millennials because we have no real generation and we are bitter!

I feel like it's the "must be regional" thing lol.

I'm nearly 30 my husband will be 29 in a few months (so in early 2000s we would have been tweens/teens depending on what year in early 2000s). We went to two different school districts here in our area. Both focused a lot on the Holocaust.

Unless you were not paying attention like zero zilch had noise cancelling headphones on never opened your textbook in school, etc there's no way you missed out on Holocaust talk--Good gravy folks--Diary of Anne Frank anyone? That was a common book to read in school. Schindler's List film? Was shown that in our school as well as Escape from Sobibor, not to mention the textbooks used-worksheets filled out, etc.

The only thing I can grasp at is the school system didn't talk about it if it truly is people are totally clueless and have never heard of the Diary of Anne Frank and what it's about, or know about Auschwitz being a concentration camp, and other details regarding it. In all fairness the exact number of millions (speaking towards 2 million aspect) who were killed is not a factoid I honestly remembered now but if I was fresh out of school it may have been easier-I would have known it was millions though.

 

[SirDuff]

Re: #2, it's quite disturbing -- and pathetic -- if this poll is at all legit (which it appears to be to me, since http://schoenconsulting.com is respected, I believe):

• 22% of millennials in the poll said they haven’t heard of the Holocaust or are not sure whether they’ve heard of it — twice the percentage of U.S. adults as a whole who said the same.
  
• 66% of American millennials surveyed in a recent poll cannot identify what Auschwitz is
• 41% of millennials believe that two million Jews or less were killed during the Holocaust
• 49% of millennials cannot name one of the over 40,000 concentration camps and ghettos in Europe during the Holocaust

WaPo article: "The study, conducted by the Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany, interviewed 1,350 American adults in February and recruited by telephone and an online non-probability sample." https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...owledge/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.34b115e97f1f


The study itself -- "Schoen Consulting conducted 1,350 interviews with American adults aged 18 and over between February 23 – 27, 2018. The margin of error is +/- 3%.": http://cc-69bd.kxcdn.com/wp-content...ge-Awareness-Study_Executive-Summary-2018.pdf

Since you seem to care where our opinions come from - mine comes from my PhD in epidemiology.

I have serious issues on the external validity of this study (i.e. how well it can really be generalized). Or, at least the headlines being made about it.

1,350 total adults interviewed, if equally distributed between 18 and, say 70 (I don't see an upper age limit) and giving millennials a 15-year range, means that millenials are about 29% of the survey or about 390 people. It is well known that phone surveys have problems with representativeness (most survey "phone books" rely on landlines, which are less and less common, especially among younger people), so this is this may be overestimate of the number of millennials sampled. It doesn't give a breakdown of those reached by phone versus those who took the online survey.

Oddly, no confidence intervals are shown on any of the graphs or numbers. Something I'd fail any of my students for not showing (and making me question the size of their CIs and the way they are hiding them).

Frankly, if anything, the survey shows that Americans don't know about the Holocaust - not that the millenials are an especially ignorant group. Given the sample sizes, I'd be surprised if the 45% of all adults and the 49% of millenials who couldn't name a camp is actually different. Or if the 41% of millennials who believed that fewer than 2 million Jews were killed is significantly different than the 31% of all adults who did. As an aside, their use of "less" rather than "fewer" does increase my confidence.

Not really enough information to be at all confident about the validity (internal or external) of the survey. Need to see the actual questions, the age group breakdown, the non-response rate (and age group breakdown). What was the actual question that led to "X% believed that fewer than 2 million were killed", for example? Much less actually using it to say that millenials know less than other adults.

 

[superme80]

I feel like it's the "must be regional" thing lol.

I'm nearly 30 my husband will be 29 in a few months (so in early 2000s we would have been tweens/teens depending on what year in early 2000s). We went to two different school districts here in our area. Both focused a lot on the Holocaust.

Unless you were not paying attention like zero zilch had noise cancelling headphones on never opened your textbook in school, etc there's no way you missed out on Holocaust talk--Good gravy folks--Diary of Anne Frank anyone? That was a common book to read in school. Schindler's List film? Was shown that in our school as well as Escape from Sobibor, not to mention the textbooks used-worksheets filled out, etc.

The only thing I can grasp at is the school system didn't talk about it if it truly is people are totally clueless and have never heard of the Diary of Anne Frank and what it's about, or know about Auschwitz being a concentration camp, and other details regarding it. In all fairness the exact number of millions (speaking towards 2 million aspect) who were killed is not a factoid I honestly remembered now but if I was fresh out of school it may have been easier-I would have known it was millions though.

See I'm with you. I could have sworn it was talked about in public schools. I was in private school and then homeschooled, so I knew I had a more extensive education in history. I was shocked. Most of the kids didn't think it was that big of a deal. To them it was in the past and not really anything to dwell on. It was a really sad day in that history class.

 

[powellrj]

When Sherry Shepherd was on The View, that was the first time I had heard of The Flat Earth people. I have 2 millennials and sometimes I am amazed at the things they don’t know. Growing up we had lively discussions about current events so they have very strong opinions, but sometimes their knowledge of history is questionable. It’s pretty good until after the Revolutionary War, then it’s scary what they didn’t study.

 

[PollyannaMom]

"Torture numbers, and they'll confess to anything." - Gregg Easterbrook

I do think a lot of polls can be misleading, especially if people don't realize the format of the question when they are hearing the results.



But honestly, this one doesn't surprise me as much as it could have. Working in schools (and having a DS in school as well) I have seen three things firsthand:

1) how much science and social studies are getting squeezed out by the "testing subjects" - More and more time is being devoted to long ELA and math blocks, interventions, etc. Some kids only get science or social studies (alternating) a couple of times a week.

2) how the focus has changed from "learning for life" to "short-term memorizing for a test" - Today's kids know they can "just Google it" when they need to know something. They study, ace the test, and then forget the information a few days later. They're not making strong connections between school and life. This isn't helped by:

3) "pacing" - Curriculum guides move SO quickly nowadays! Teachers are not given the leeway to pause and delve more deeply into things that interest their students. We're squashing natural curiosity in the name of "data" - and there's no time for most kids to organize all that input into something useful and meaningful.

 

[DLgal]

"Torture numbers, and they'll confess to anything." - Gregg Easterbrook

I do think a lot of polls can be misleading, especially if people don't realize the format of the question when they are hearing the results.



But honestly, this one doesn't surprise me as much as it could have. Working in schools (and having a DS in school as well) I have seen three things firsthand:

1) how much science and social studies are getting squeezed out by the "testing subjects" - More and more time is being devoted to long ELA and math blocks, interventions, etc. Some kids only get science or social studies (alternating) a couple of times a week.

2) how the focus has changed from "learning for life" to "short-term memorizing for a test" - Today's kids know they can "just Google it" when they need to know something. They study, ace the test, and then forget the information a few days later. They're not making strong connections between school and life. This isn't helped by:

3) "pacing" - Curriculum guides move SO quickly nowadays! Teachers are not given the leeway to pause and delve more deeply into things that interest their students. We're squashing natural curiosity in the name of "data" - and there's no time for most kids to organize all that input into something useful and meaningful.

I agree. I find #1 to be especially troubling, given recent events on the world stage as well as global problems that need to be solved using science. The focus on Math and ELA is misguided, at best.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Since you seem to care where our opinions come from - mine comes from my PhD in epidemiology.

I have serious issues on the external validity of this study (i.e. how well it can really be generalized). Or, at least the headlines being made about it.

1,350 total adults interviewed, if equally distributed between 18 and, say 70 (I don't see an upper age limit) and giving millennials a 15-year range, means that millenials are about 29% of the survey or about 390 people. It is well known that phone surveys have problems with representativeness (most survey "phone books" rely on landlines, which are less and less common, especially among younger people), so this is this may be overestimate of the number of millennials sampled. It doesn't give a breakdown of those reached by phone versus those who took the online survey.

Oddly, no confidence intervals are shown on any of the graphs or numbers. Something I'd fail any of my students for not showing (and making me question the size of their CIs and the way they are hiding them).

Frankly, if anything, the survey shows that Americans don't know about the Holocaust - not that the millenials are an especially ignorant group. Given the sample sizes, I'd be surprised if the 45% of all adults and the 49% of millenials who couldn't name a camp is actually different. Or if the 41% of millennials who believed that fewer than 2 million Jews were killed is significantly different than the 31% of all adults who did. As an aside, their use of "less" rather than "fewer" does increase my confidence.

Not really enough information to be at all confident about the validity (internal or external) of the survey. Need to see the actual questions, the age group breakdown, the non-response rate (and age group breakdown). What was the actual question that led to "X% believed that fewer than 2 million were killed", for example? Much less actually using it to say that millenials know less than other adults.

Some fair points for sure. I didn't look as closely as you did -- but I didn't expect that level of detail in an Executive Summary released to the public for a poll like this.

Some thoughts, though:

• When you say: "Not really enough information to be at all confident about the validity (internal or external) of the survey." -- that doesn't mean that the study isn't solid -- it means that what they seem to have released in their Executive Summary pdf doesn't answer all possible questions, correct? Not at all unusual for an Executive Summary put out to the public on such polls.
• Would you agree that Schoen Consulting (http://schoenconsulting.com) is a legitimate polling operation from what we can tell, founded by a former pollster for Bill Clinton and many others? That would suggest that they are more likely to have followed appropriate sampling, etc. protocols.
• Agree that online polls are often dubious, and that showing a breakdown of how people were reached would be informative.
• Not showing CIs isn't unusual in these PDF summaries that are often put out about polls. I wouldn't say "oddly" as a result. It would of course be informative to have that.
• Agree that there doesn't appear to be a huge difference between a 45% for all adults and 49% for millennials, IF the individual generation sample sizes are not themselves significant and sampled similarly (e.g. method - online vs. landline, etc.). But you can't conclude from this summary that this difference isn't significant -- we'd need more information.
• Seeing the actual questions would also be informative -- as always -- and something that summaries like this typically don't give. I don't know if full data are available somewhere on this study. Haven't looked. You?
• I'd agree that the results for ALL ADULTS in the US show ignorance wrt the holocaust, something that is concerning. And honestly, something that is not at all surprising to me.

___

ETA: Generally speaking, studies conducted on these types of social issues that grab headlines are often pretty weak. Often they are online polls only, conducted by the organizations with an agenda directly -- they don't even bother to hire an outside firm. There are NOT those kinds of obvious red flags with the holocaust poll.

As far as these things go, this one passes an initial threshold with me because a legitimate outside firm with a good reputation (from what I can tell) conducted it. Doesn't mean the study is definitely solid, but there is some reason to think it probably is.

Can more digging be done to see if it's perfect? I guess so. But that's well beyond the time commitment that I think it is generally worth dedicating, when that initial threshold of a poll being conducted by a legit operation is met. At least for me. I would't base a thesis on this Executive Summary (!!!), but it's enough to tell me there is probably something there wrt the increasing ignorance re: the holocaust with the passage of time. Not exactly a crazy finding.

 

[ronandannette]

I think a lot of people like to give horrible answers on polls, so I really don't think these are true.

I know this is off topic and can cause a debate, however, millennial dates are 1982-1995 (6). Basically, the argument is if you can remember 9/11 in the 199? then you are a millennial. Most kids born 1996 -2000 don't remember what happen on that date. 1996 is considered a gray area and someone born in that year can be considered millennial or generation Z. This is a hot topic in our house because we have teenagers and their friends hate to be lumped into the millennial generation.

Not sure what this sentence means; maybe I'm reading it wrong but 9/11 occurred in 2001. My DS was 4 at the time (part of what has become known as iGen) and he will never forget it. The images on tv that morning as we were having breakfast took us all off-guard and he was mesmerized. We spent a lot of time in the following days and weeks talking about it and trying to explain it in ways he could grasp.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Not sure what this sentence means; maybe I'm reading it wrong but 9/11 occurred in 2001. My DS was 4 at the time (part of what has become known as iGen) and he will never forget it. The images on tv that morning as we were having breakfast took us all off-guard and he was mesmerized. We spent a lot of time in the following days and weeks talking about it and trying to explain it in ways he could grasp.

I can't speak directly towards the other poster or their exact wording but generally speaking 9/11 is used as a defining point.

I was 13 and I have strong memories of it because..I saw the 2nd plane and subsequent collapse of the tower while in study hall..but *generally* speaking children who were born right around that time are brought up learning the history of the event through textbooks versus actual and cognizant memories of it. Even at 13 my understanding of why and how were limited until I was older and could formulate more comprehensive understanding of the event. I remember the gas prices skyrocketing and the immense lines at the gas station but it wasn't until I was older that I understood what led to that and in some cases the unlawfulness of what was going on.

Now I could see where being 4 and watching the event could lead to more salient memories though understanding *may* be the same as how it was for me but I have exactly 1 memory of me at 4 and it's a fragmented one of when I broke my elbow otherwise my memories are most prevelant around 6ish with some random things here and there from earlier. But possibly more important is I have memories of my childhood before 9/11 and how life was whereas those born right around then generally don't.

**Again speaking in generalities

 

[Wendy31]

"Torture numbers, and they'll confess to anything." - Gregg Easterbrook

I do think a lot of polls can be misleading, especially if people don't realize the format of the question when they are hearing the results.

But honestly, this one doesn't surprise me as much as it could have. Working in schools (and having a DS in school as well) I have seen three things firsthand:

1) how much science and social studies are getting squeezed out by the "testing subjects" - More and more time is being devoted to long ELA and math blocks, interventions, etc. Some kids only get science or social studies (alternating) a couple of times a week.

2) how the focus has changed from "learning for life" to "short-term memorizing for a test" - Today's kids know they can "just Google it" when they need to know something. They study, ace the test, and then forget the information a few days later. They're not making strong connections between school and life. This isn't helped by:

3) "pacing" - Curriculum guides move SO quickly nowadays! Teachers are not given the leeway to pause and delve more deeply into things that interest their students. We're squashing natural curiosity in the name of "data" - and there's no time for most kids to organize all that input into something useful and meaningful.

Yes!!

I think the issue is students not being given the time to make any meaningful & lasting connections w/ what they're learning to real life - past & present.

Even in the homeschooling community, I see this. In our Facebook group, there will be discussions on how to set up weekly lesson schedules, & there will be many who teach math & ELA 5 days/week while only doing science & social studies 2-3 days/week. For our family, as a homeschooling educator, I absolutely love history & social studies & literature & how the 3 subjects inter-connect, & one of my favorite aspects of homeschooling has been the ability to delve into different topics & have time to really study & learn - not necessarily for a test but more "just because".

Regarding 9/11, our older two kids were 20 months & 2 months, so they have no memory of "life before 9/11".

 

[tvguy]

Regarding polls: People long ago got so irritated with them that they lie when they take them.

Regarding Millenials: If it hasn't impacted them, they don't care.

 

[BrinkofSunshine]

Regarding Millenials: If it hasn't impacted them, they don't care.

That’s a pretty strong (and insulting) statement to apply to the millions of people born in that generation.

Millennials are adults in their 20s and 30s, and people still paint them to be one homogenous group of bratty children.

 

[tvguy]

That’s a pretty strong (and insulting) statement to apply to the millions of people born in that generation.

Millennials are adults in their 20s and 30s, and people still paint them to be one homogenous group of bratty children.

I never said they were bratty children. Maybe "don't care" could be softened to "don't concern themselves with". Hey, I have 2 kids (27 and 31) who are Millennials and that is THEIR assessment of their own generation too. Sometimes the truth hurts.