Resort pool etiquette: other parents unsafe children

[erc]

I think even if they did not listen to my wife I would most likely approach them with a "Hey guys, can you come on out of there so the little kids can slide down?" I have some experience as a youth sports coach for this age, and I am a pretty big dude so for the most part if I can keep it light, I can motivate boys to feel like they are helping out with even younger kids, as a lot of young kids like the feeling of being recognized as being older and taking on the responsibility for watching out for even younger kids. It doesn't always work and if it didn't I know I would like to just drag them out by their ankles, but once that fantasy ended I would find a lifeguard and commiserate with my fellow adults about irresponsible parents around the pool.

 

[MomOTwins]

OP: In my opinion, you behaved badly. You did not tell the kids what they were doing wrong, you just raised your voice and told them to leave. That's not helpful, or appropriate.

I also think you are overreacting a bit. Your child was not hurt or really any more in danger than she would have been if there were other toddlers under 48 inches there. I've seen plenty of toddlers at that pools climb up inside slides or sit at the bottom, or run around.

 

[Jimmy Mouse]

OP: In my opinion, you behaved badly. You did not tell the kids what they were doing wrong, you just raised your voice and told them to leave. That's not helpful, or appropriate.

I also think you are overreacting a bit. Your child was not hurt or really any more in danger than she would have been if there were other toddlers under 48 inches there. I've seen plenty of toddlers at that pools climb up inside slides or sit at the bottom, or run around.

Actually that's not what OP said. I can read between the lines but he clearly stated he said At this point, I told the boys "either your done here, or I'm going to have to get the life guard".

 

[Lindsey17]

Maybe I have an over protective outlook, but I can imagine all types of issues in that scenario.

This. I'm that parent too. If at the playground with my kids I'm not the parent sitting on the bench not paying attention to what my kids are doing, I'm the parent watching them like a hawk to make sure they're safe and that they're not misbehaving. My own family thinks I'm a helicopter Mom, but examples like this are the exact reasons why. I wouldn't have said anything to the kids personally, but I also don't like confrontation at all even with kids who are clearly given the freedom to do whatever they want. I would have just removed my child from the situation, which is unfortunate since she did nothing wrong. However, I'm sure the other parents there were relieved you said something.

Like you said I wouldn't have automatically alerted the CM just because of the height because my kids are 2 & 6 and my 6 year old is super tall for his age and would want to play there with his sister. Granted he wouldn't act like that or be allowed to I should say. Unfortunately most people are offended if you correct their kids and sometimes I wonder if it comes more from embarrassment than anything else. My husband and SIL didn't talk for about 5 months because my husband corrected her daughter for hitting another cousin (not even one of our kids) and he didn't raise his voice at all literally said "That's not nice, and apologize". A few days later he gets a text ripping him a new one for not letting her assess the situation first. The child isn't well behaved and she knows it so at the end of the day she was more embarrassed that everyone knew her daughter hit someone again. If we can't even correct family members kids, then I steer clear of strangers is I guess what I'm saying.

Hopefully you don't have to deal with it further and can enjoy the rest of your trip!

 

[DisneyWishes14]

We were at the pool most of that day …. did you see a little while later a boy was playing Dead Man at the steps at the big pool. We were right beside him when they cleared the pool and a female lifeguard jumped in to save him. He got up and walked out like nothing happened. That was scary for a moment.

Wow. No, I didn't see that. We didn't stick around the main pool for very long. DS12 doesn't do well with chaos, so we went over to the quiet pool which was really awesome. True to it's name - very quiet, only about 3 people in the pool and everyone was very well behaved!

 

[Bryan Burmeister]

OP: In my opinion, you behaved badly. You did not tell the kids what they were doing wrong, you just raised your voice and told them to leave. That's not helpful, or appropriate.

I also think you are overreacting a bit. Your child was not hurt or really any more in danger than she would have been if there were other toddlers under 48 inches there. I've seen plenty of toddlers at that pools climb up inside slides or sit at the bottom, or run around.

I have to respectfully disagree with this. It seems most people who have chosen to post do as well.

• My wife and the cousin both told the kids what they were doing was wrong. On multiple occasions. I gave them the option leave. Yes, I raised my voice. That was a necessary condition to get their attention.
• You seem to be implying there isn't a safety hazard until someone physically gets hurt. I'm sorry, but I will never wait until my child is actually hurt to take action when I can take preventive measures first. This post was mainly about what measures are appropriate. I never really even considered the idea that the behavior was in fact actually "safe".
• I'm confused why you would think that larger children pose the same danger to my 2 year old as children close to her age. Consider that 10-12 year olds are capable of running 2-3 times as fast as her and weigh at least 3x as much as her. If they slip and fall while sprinting, or crash into her for one of a dozen reasons, the outcome will likely be completely different than if a child her own size did the same. They are also posing a risk of drowning her while they are stuck inside the tube slide. Understand that while they are sitting in the middle, no one can see them. This includes my daughter at the top of the slide. If she goes down and gets stuck in the middle, what is to prevent her from inhaling water?

Link to a photo of the area. I think not everyone has seen what it looks like.

 

[brockash]

I had an unfortunate expirence at the Disney resort pool this afternoon. I'm curious if anyone else has expierenced something similar and/ or knows what Disney's policy on the matter is.

I have a 2 year old daughter who was having a great time In the splash pad at the Riviera resort. This area is indicated to be reserved for children 48 inches and under. There is no dedicated lifeguard on duty. 99% of the kids are supervised and playing safely.

We had been enjoying the area for around 2 hours, with no issue and many great interactions with other guests. At this point, 3 boys enter the area. 2 appear be over 48 inches. The other is borderline. I had no issue with this until they started behaving in an unsafe manner. Running at full speed, jumping around/over my daughter, sitting in the slide exit, climbing UP the slide, riding the slide 3 at a time and stopping themselves IN the tube slide and sitting there for minutes on end.

Their cousin was making a small effort to control their behavior but quickly gave up. It appeared they had long tuned her out. My wife gently asked them to behave at least once. Eventually, my daughter climbed the stairs to go down the tube slide (having seen no one enter recently). She almost ended up sliding down while the 3 boys were still inside. ( Because they had purposely gotten themselves stuck in there again). Luckily I stopped her before going down, but there was definitely a risk there. Maybe I have an over protective outlook, but I can imagine all types of issues in that scenario.

At this point, I told the boys "either your done here, or I'm going to have to get the life guard". Unsurprisingly, I was ignored. I raised my voice and repeated myself. This time they knew I meant business. They high tailed it out of there, and I figured they opted to learn a valuable lesson instead of being embarrassed by a life guard.

Sadly, I was sorely mistaken. About 10 minutes later, an angry mother comes along with a very Junior life guard and her smallest boy. (Lord knows what story the boy concocted for her benefit). She asked me why I had "threatened" her son. I explained the situation. In my mind, I gave the boys an option. I didn't threaten them. In any case, obviously the mom and I had it out, but that's not why I'm posting. I was most surprised by the life gaurd's response. He said, "come get a life guard. Don't do anything." I responded, "even if I believe the behavior is unsafe? There was no lifeguard around, surely I need to act in that situation." From there he kept repeating the same line about getting a lifeguard. And even asked if I knew CPR, as if that would be a requirement to be involved in pool safety. My wife declined to speak with a manager. I was getting no where.

Can this possibly be the company policy? Surely there are many scenarios where a guest needs to discipline other kids? If this is in fact the actual policy, unsupervised pool areas seem like a bad idea.

Maybe this is a cultural shift, but I remember when I was young. Adults were considered authority figures. Is the best answer to alert lifeguards to kids over 48 inches as soon as they enter a height restricted area? Obviously, larger kids pose a much bigger risk to my daughter than smaller. But kids would be given No benefit of the doubt.

Disney's policy is generally take the path of least resistance...unfortunate at times.

 

[Bryan Burmeister]

I think even if they did not listen to my wife I would most likely approach them with a "Hey guys, can you come on out of there so the little kids can slide down?" I have some experience as a youth sports coach for this age, and I am a pretty big dude so for the most part if I can keep it light, I can motivate boys to feel like they are helping out with even younger kids, as a lot of young kids like the feeling of being recognized as being older and taking on the responsibility for watching out for even younger kids. It doesn't always work and if it didn't I know I would like to just drag them out by their ankles, but once that fantasy ended I would find a lifeguard and commiserate with my fellow adults about irresponsible parents around the pool.

Thanks for sharing your experience with this. Making them feel like everyone is on the same team seems like a really good plan. That way you are encouraging the correct behavior, but instead of saying "no" you are giving them an activity.

 

[MamaBelle4]

I do not believe that you are intentionally misleading but I think you may be overestimating their ages.

You originally said they were borderline the 48 inch rule. No average 10-14/10-12 year old is. Also there is a huge difference between a 10 year old and a 14 year old. And if they were around the 48 inch mark, they aren't as significantly bigger than the kids allowed in there.

I think the PP who said that we are biased about our kids is 1,000% right. In your mind they looked huge compared to your daughter so you likely over estimated their age based on comparison.

There are a lot of people on this thread saying, "I wouldn't mind if someone said something to my kids," and I'll be honest, I don't really buy that. Obviously, I don't think any of us would let our children unsupervised in a water area, but if I was at a park and tending to my little one and some complete stranger told my kids "Either you leave or I get the owner," you bet your bottom dollar I would have a problem with that and you bet I'd believe my kids over a stranger who threatened them.

You come to me and say, "I don't know if you noticed, but your kids are blocking the slide from younger ones," then I'm thanking you and I'm taking care of it. But I wouldn't thank a stranger for threatening my children.

 

[Bryan Burmeister]

I do not believe that you are intentionally misleading but I think you may be overestimating their ages.

You originally said they were borderline the 48 inch rule. No average 10-14/10-12 year old is. Also there is a huge difference between a 10 year old and a 14 year old. And if they were around the 48 inch mark, they aren't as significantly bigger than the kids allowed in there.

Yes, you are correct. As soon as a prior poster had pointed this out, I admitted that I was probably mistaken on that. They were 100% not 13-14, which is why I corrected myself. At this point, I'm not even going to try and guess their ages based on their height because there is such a wide-variance and my only frame of reference are my nieces and nephews. (whom my wife has since told me tend to be small for their age prior to age 12.)

That said, I said only 1 was borderline. The other 2 were clearly over 48. No question at all. This is why the mom only brought him with the CM. He was the most innocent looking of the three. Counter-point would be that he was also the most likely to have felt bullied, although I believe in my heart of hearts that he was just playing the 'sympathy card'.

 

[Lilsia]

That said, I said only 1 was borderline. The other 2 were clearly over 48. No question at all. This is why the mom only brought him with the CM. He was the most innocent looking of the three. Counter-point would be that he was also the most likely to have felt bullied, although I believe in my heart of hearts that he was just playing the 'sympathy card'.

If I had gone to my Mom and said that an adult had yelled at me, her response would have been "what did you do?" If a parent is abdicating their role by not watching their kid, then they have no cause to get mad at other adults that have to correct their behavior. It's not like you physically touched them. It is sad to see so many people that get so defensive about it. If a parent does not want anyone else to correct their kid, then be there and do the parenting yourself.

 

[DrunkJam]

If my kids were misbehaving that way I would welcome another adult correcting them. And I certainly wouldn't do the "How DARE you suggest my little angels are anything but perfect!" thing. However, I'm pretty sure that this is a minority opinion, unfortunately.

This is me. I try to keep an eye on my children, and to be fair to them, they are largely pretty good in public places. But IF I am dealing with one of them and another has strayed into bother, I feel hugely embarrassed and grateful if another parent has stepped in to prevent anyone getting hurt / or to correct bad behaviour.

 

[nkereina]

A parent who lets their bad seeds run rampant without appropriate supervision, as in the OP's scenario, is not going to take well to someone else raising their voice to their child, no matter how right or wrong they are. That's something that can be assumed from jump street. Because of that, I would have removed my kid and either come back later (when they were gone) or told a lifeguard so they could police the situation in accordance with policy. If the parent has beef, they'd have to take it up with management, because then it would be the company enforcing the rules.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Link to a photo of the area. I think not everyone has seen what it looks like.

Not what I expected. Much more elaborate. That area needs a permanent lifeguard.

There are a lot of people on this thread saying, "I wouldn't mind if someone said something to my kids," and I'll be honest, I don't really buy that.

I buy it. I don't think the OP's daughter would need something said to her by a stranger, because he and his wife sound like attentive, involved parents. They'd moderate her behavior before anyone else had to step in.

You come to me and say,

That's the best solution, if you're present. This parent wasn't, until she came with a lifeguard after the phone left.

 

[MamaBelle4]

Not what I expected. Much more elaborate. That area needs a permanent lifeguard.

I buy it. I don't think the OP's daughter would need something said to her by a stranger, because he and his wife sound like attentive, involved parents. They'd moderate her behavior before anyone else had to step in.

That's the best solution, if you're present. This parent wasn't, until she came with a lifeguard after the phone left.

As I said, I didn't think any of the PP would leave their children unattended, but a lot of people are saying they'd welcome someone reprimanding their child.

The way OP's wife did, sure. The way the cousin did, sure. Telling them they needed to leave or he was getting the lifeguard, no. And, in this situation, I would be getting a lifeguard or if there were no other parents or authority figures present, I'd be removing my kids from the situation.

I'm not saying he doesn't sound attentive, obviously the other parent was in the wrong by not supervising her kids. I'm just saying there are a lot of people saying they're good with complete strangers yelling at or threatening their kids and I just don't think that's true.

 

[Kaleidodad]

Oh! Maybe they were a bit younger than that. definitely older than 6 though. I was only unsure of the height of the youngest. The other 2 were definitely over 48. Obtensibly, this is why only that child returned with the mom/lifeguard.

If they are under 12, they are required to be supervised by an adult at the pools; if they are 12 or older, they are definitely too tall for the baby pool. So I would have just turned the entire situation around on the mother who was clearly neglecting her responsibility and/or the pool rules.

 

[DisneyWishes14]

If they are under 12, they are required to be supervised by an adult at the pools; if they are 12 or older, they are definitely too tall for the baby pool. So I would have just turned the entire situation around on the mother who was clearly neglecting her responsibility and/or the pool rules.

Yes, this exactly. These are WDW rules, but they seem to have no interest in enforcing them on a consistent basis. They were very strict with them at BB when my DS was borderline height a few years ago - I think they need to up their game at the WDW pools!

 

[dawnball]

If they are under 12, they are required to be supervised by an adult at the pools; if they are 12 or older, they are definitely too tall for the baby pool. So I would have just turned the entire situation around on the mother who was clearly neglecting her responsibility and/or the pool rules.

They had an adult. OP didn't think that the adult (or his wife) was effective enough. So he escalated, then got mad when he wasn't vindicated.

Also, the sign at the splash pad doesn't say "Must be <48" to enter." It says "This area is for the enjoyment of children under 48 inches." I'd interpret that as siblings/family being welcome too. (Note, I'm not saying that the kids weren't being obnoxious, just that they weren't expressly prohibited from being there in the first place.)

 

[MomOTwins]

• My wife and the cousin both told the kids what they were doing was wrong. On multiple occasions. I gave them the option leave. Yes, I raised my voice. That was a necessary condition to get their attention.

Saying they are "done here" or else you will get a lifeguard to expel them is telling them to go, it's not merely giving them an option. Nor was it necessary--

you could have asked them where their parents are and gone to talk to the parents, or if they refused, gone directly to the lifeguard​

. Or you could have called it quits--you'd already been there two hours after all, that's what we call "we had a good run" in our house. It was just more convenient for you to snap at them than to take the time to deal with the situation in the right way, and let's be honest, it's clear from your post that you were (and are) angry at the children, so it seems very likely that played a part in the raised voice aspect.

• You seem to be implying there isn't a safety hazard until someone physically gets hurt. I'm sorry, but I will never wait until my child is actually hurt to take action when I can take preventive measures first. This post was mainly about what measures are appropriate. I never really even considered the idea that the behavior was in fact actually "safe"

I just don't see any evidence in your post that your daughter was actually in any serious danger, or that the kids were in fact acting much more dangerous than what kids often do at a kids playground. What you've described is what I've seen at every playground, public pool splash area, indoor mall play area etc,. for kids 48 inches or under. O

n our Disney cruise where there is a similar height limit for the kiddie splash area, a group of toddlers around 3-5 years old were constantly climbing up the kiddie water slide while others were sliding down. They kids collided, they bumped, they survived. I just gave my 4-year old son a hug and a kiss on the arm/leg he got bumped on and asked if he was still having fun or if he wanted to go. He always wanted to stay. Those slidesjust aren't fast enough for anyone to be seriously hurt.​

• I'm confused why you would think that larger children pose the same danger to my 2 year old as children close to her age. Consider that 10-12 year olds are capable of running 2-3 times as fast as her and weigh at least 3x as much as her. If they slip and fall while sprinting, or crash into her for one of a dozen reasons, the outcome will likely be completely different than if a child her own size did the same. They are also posing a risk of drowning her while they are stuck inside the tube slide. Understand that while they are sitting in the middle, no one can see them. This includes my daughter at the top of the slide. If she goes down and gets stuck in the middle, what is to prevent her from inhaling water.
  

I notice you did not say you only told the too-large children to leave and said to the younger one they could stay. You snapped at all three and told them to leave. So you were not just enforcing the height limit, and that child have every right to be there, which is probably why his mom brought him back with the lifeguard. 48 inches is a lot larger than a typical four year old, so there are plenty of bigger faster kids who could still meet the height requirements and pose the same issues. Not to mention your 4 year old is much bigger and faster than a 1 year old--those play areas are meant for kids with a pretty wide range of sizes.

Look, I've got small kids and at the end of the day, it's an entirely normal experience to be worried about them being hurt by bigger kids, ESPECIALLY at Disney World, because there are a lot of high energy kids and teens everywhere. And sure, those kids were being rowdy, and they were in the wrong, and their mom should have intervened. But I just don't believe you have a right to raise your voice at other peoples kids and tell them to leave. You complained their mother was being unfair when she said were threatening them, but to a kid, a raised voice from a grown man is scary, and it IS a threat.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

They had an adult. OP didn't think that the adult (or his wife) was effective enough. So he escalated, then got mad when he wasn't vindicated.

Also, the sign at the splash pad doesn't say "Must be <48" to enter." It says "This area is for the enjoyment of children under 48 inches." I'd interpret that as siblings/family being welcome too. (Note, I'm not saying that the kids weren't being obnoxious, just that they weren't expressly prohibited from being there in the first place.)

No, it means it is for children 48 inches and under. It's just a more polite way to say it.

FWIW, I would have likely done the same thing or something similar, minus raising my voice. Asking them to stop didn't work. His wife tried it. They knew what they were doing, and chose to continue doing it. They were a safety hazard and frankly, its highly likely that getting a lifeguard would have done nothing. In our experiences with Disney pools all they do in these situations is ask the children to play nicely, then leave. They will not kick over sized and or rough kids out of the toddler areas, or out of the pools. They aren't going to take the risk of angering the parent. I would have told them the play area is intended for small children and they needed to stop being so rowdy or take it elsewhere.