Removing Peter Pans Flight Scenes

[SuperMuscleMan]

Today DLP digitally removed scenes from Peter Pans Flight from the on-ride video.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1364688764283592705

Does that mean other attractions are at risk of being removed? I can't understand the difference between this and the entire 'it's a small world' ride.

What are your thoughts.

 

[mamaofsix]

As the adoptive mother of 4 Indigenous children, I can tell you right away the difference. It's a small world treats other cultures respectfully, accurately depicting their cultures. Peter Pan does not. It treats Indigenous culture in a very caricature-y, stereoptypical way. Think of the song from the Peter Pan movie itself: "What Makes the Red Man Red?" If you don't understand why that's offensive, I can't help you...

And Disney isn't talking about removing the entire attraction. They only removed part of the ride in an advertisement. If they do anything, I'd imagine they will just be tweaking it as they are planning with Jungle Cruise.

 

[BrianL]

I can understand that the depiction in the movie is problematic, but in the ride they aren't really - they are just sitting around a fire. This is a legitimate question, can they ever depict Native Americans in traditional garb anymore? I am just wondering where the bar is set. I don't really have a big problem with changing it, just curious is all.

 

[Krandor]

I can understadn that the dpeiction in the movie is problematic, but in the ride they aren't really - they are just sitting around a fire. This is a legitimate question, can they ever depict Native Americans in traditional garb anymore? I am just wondering where the bar is set. I don't really have a big problem with changing it, just curious is all.

The indians on the ride are still charactatures especially the chief and so yes they are problematic. They don't really look like normal people which is where the problem starts.

 

[BrianL]

The indians on the ride are still charactatures especially the chief and so yes they are problematic. They don't really look like normal people which is where the problem starts.

Yeah, but they look like cartoons - I mean they seem as "normal" as any of the other humans in the movie. Tiger Lilly certainly looks in line with the other children, and while the chief is very exaggerated, so are Captain Hook and Smee, basically all adult characters. I don't think anyone looks realistic per se.

 

[davper]

The indians on the ride are still charactatures especially the chief and so yes they are problematic. They don't really look like normal people which is where the problem starts.

So lets change them to look traditional. I would rather do that then pretend they don't exist.

 

[Krandor]

So lets change them to look traditional. I would rather do that then pretend they don't exist.

Which is probably one way they could change that scene to work similar to how they handled pirated. Kept the redhead but re-did how she was depicted.

 

[Moliphino]

So lets change them to look traditional. I would rather do that then pretend they don't exist.

But then the no longer look like the movie the whole ride is based on. It's kind of a mess and I don't know the best solution.

 

[woody337]

Maybe Disney should close because everything seems to offend everyone now. 10 years ago people werent offended by everything, what changed? Thats right, people are being told to be offended now.

 

[BrianL]

Maybe Disney should close because everything seems to offend everyone now. 10 years ago people werent offended by everything, what changed? Thats right, people are being told to be offended now.

Well, it's not that people weren't offended, they just didn't have the ability to band together on the Internet to have a louder voice. That said, I'm sure a lot of people weren't and still aren't offended, but I can completely understand why a company like Disney wouldn't want to be offensive to anybody if they can help it, so you know, it is what it is.

For the record, I am not upset or anything about the changes, but I do like to ask the questions and have the conversation that some would rather skip. The "why" is an important part of understanding.

 

[JC1984]

But then the no longer look like the movie the whole ride is based on. It's kind of a mess and I don't know the best solution.

Close all the Disney parks because anything could be taken as offensive. Churros are offensive, hot dogs cause cancer, Dumbo was harassed for having big ears, etc etc etc!

 

[CmdrThor]

I can understadn that the dpeiction in the movie is problematic, but in the ride they aren't really - they are just sitting around a fire. This is a legitimate question, can they ever depict Native Americans in traditional garb anymore? I am just wondering where the bar is set. I don't really have a big problem with changing it, just curious is all.

There were zero racist depictions in Splash Mountain, yet it is still being replaced because of its source material. I imagine a large part of the problem is the movie and ride were made by a bunch of middle aged white guys. To know where the bar is set you have to include people that represent the cultures that you are depicting. I would imagine Disney has finally realized this and that is what is driving many of the recent changes.

 

[davper]

Close all the Disney parks because anything could be taken as offensive. Churros are offensive, hot dogs cause cancer, Dumbo was harassed for having big ears, etc etc etc!

You jest, but that is where we are headed. I understand that the somethings are offensive today that weren't scrutinized in the past. I get it and we need to be more sensitive. But in doing so, we shouldn't censor art and free speech from the past. We went down this path once before. Remember book burning?
Let's use the past to educate why it is offensive. Educate why it was generally accepted back then. We do this so we do not repeat past mistakes. “Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” - Winston Churchill

Now amusement rides are not the same as literature or art. We can change the depiction on a ride. Let's not censor, educate.

We don't censor swear words or sexual situations. We give warnings that this exists in the art. Why can't we do the same with stereo-typical depictions?

And as my last vent...
...the only race/culture/gender that can be made fun of, without being canceled yourself, is white males. As one, I find this offensive.

 

[JC1984]

You jest, but that is where we are headed. I understand that the somethings are offensive today that weren't scrutinized in the past. I get it and we need to be more sensitive. But in doing so, we shouldn't censor art and free speech from the past. We went down this path once before. Remember book burning?
Let's use the past to educate why it is offensive. Educate why it was generally accepted back then. We do this so we do not repeat past mistakes. “Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” - Winston Churchill

Now amusement rides are not the same as literature or art. We can change the depiction on a ride. Let's not censor, educate.

We don't censor swear words or sexual situations. We give warnings that this exists in the art. Why can't we do the same with stereo-typical depictions?

And as my last vent...
...the only race/culture/gender that can be made fun of, without being canceled yourself, is white males. As one, I find this offensive.

I think every can be deemed offensive under any light

 

[BrianL]

There were zero racist depictions in Splash Mountain, yet it is still being replaced because of its source material. I imagine a large part of the problem is the movie and ride were made by a bunch of middle aged white guys. To know where the bar is set you have to include people that represent the cultures that you are depicting. I would imagine Disney has finally realized this and that is what is driving many of the recent changes.

That's definitely true. It was created by a bunch of white guys as was the original story. I don't know how problematic the Native Americans are in the book - maybe they should do a total remake of the film? The question though is that is it still okay to enjoy the ride? The movie?

Now amusement rides are not the same as literature or art. We can change the depiction on a ride. Let's not censor, educate.

Yeah, but I don't think it's feasible, or necessary, to put the cultural depiction warnings on rides inthe park. It's not the right forum to litigate such matters.

And as my last vent...
...the only race/culture/gender that can be made fun of, without being canceled yourself, is white males. As one, I find this offensive.

While it is ture, it comes from the position of security that white males have. They don't have to worry about negative depictions affecting their opportunities and they (we) are generally secure enough to not care. Now, I have argued in the past about all of this, that it is people who give these things power over them - the objects have no power except what we allow. I have a friend who exemplifies just that - he is African American and is unflappable about such things - he won't let that stuff define him. I really respect his stance.

 

[CmdrThor]

You jest, but that is where we are headed. I understand that the somethings are offensive today that weren't scrutinized in the past. I get it and we need to be more sensitive. But in doing so, we shouldn't censor art and free speech from the past. We went down this path once before. Remember book burning?
Let's use the past to educate why it is offensive. Educate why it was generally accepted back then. We do this so we do not repeat past mistakes. “Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” - Winston Churchill

Now amusement rides are not the same as literature or art. We can change the depiction on a ride. Let's not censor, educate.

We don't censor swear words or sexual situations. We give warnings that this exists in the art. Why can't we do the same with stereo-typical depictions?

And as my last vent...
...the only race/culture/gender that can be made fun of, without being canceled yourself, is white males. As one, I find this offensive.

For the most part I feel like Disney is trying its best to leave the original art intact, but with added disclaimers at the beginning that it contains "negative depictions and/or mistreatment of people or cultures." I agree you shouldn't just go editing old animated movies, but you can update attractions, and they have been also creating new live action remakes with more accurate cultural depictions.

 

[Farro]

I find it ironic that some of you complaining about Disney removing everything they deem offensive are the same ones asking for Disney to limit it's sales of alcohol in Epcot because you find drunks offensive.

Agree with poster who said if you can't figure out what was offensive about the depiction of Native Americans in Peter Pan...well not much else to be said.

 

[JC1984]

Yeha, so far it's been a very civil discussion. So far of course.... We'll see how it goes.

Like I said I like hot button discussions. Let’s not forget our common ground...Disney. We all clearly love it or wouldn’t be here. Is Disney still making culturally insensitive material? No they have changed their ways and are realizing the past at doesn’t define them. Again we can’t erase the past we must use to change our future.

 

[BrianL]

For the most part I feel like Disney is trying its best to leave the original art intact, but with added disclaimers at the beginning that it contains "negative depictions and/or mistreatment of people or cultures." I agree you shouldn't just go editing old animated movies, but you can update attractions, and they have been also creating new live action remakes with more accurate cultural depictions.

I agree. Changing the ride isn't "erasing the past" - the rides are supposed to change and evolve. The thing is, to me, Peter Pan is a betteer ride than it is a movie anyway. Back to my original question, would redesigning the Native Americans in the scene be considered okay to do, or must they excise them completely. Personally, I really like Native American culture, so I hate to see them have to go. I mean, they don't use "that song" in the ride, just a traditional style of music. What are the parameters?

 

[Krandor]

Agree with poster who said if you can't figure out what was offensive about the depiction of Native Americans in Peter Pan...well not much else to be said.

Agreed.

I'm a white male and why I like most of peter pan's flight I do these days cringe a bit at the indian scene and have no issue with it being changed to be more inclusive.