Do we really need the cursing on the Falcon and Winter Soldier?

[nickg420]

I cuss more than that around my kids anyway so....Hell, I let my 10-year-old watch Titans and it's faaaaaar worse.

I also explain why I can cuss and they can't....I can also drive, vote, buy alcohol, tobacco, and firearms....on and on...

All that aside, I also don't think that my kid's life is over if they hear, or even say an F-Word before they leave elementary school.
Both my kids are perfectly normal, both gifted students, straight A's, with 0 issues. That is how I do things in my house...Feel free to do things however you choose in yours.

Neither way is right or wrong...Just sharing my experience and approach to the topic.

 

[RamblingMad]

This thread would be 70% shorter if people would read my original post entirely and reflect on the fact that it’s the gratuitousness that is what I find to be the issue.

What? Go watch a Tarantino movie or Scarface. I didn’t even notice it.

 

[BadPinkTink]

This topic reminds me so much about the Irish film trilogy, The Commitments, The Snapper, The Van written by Roddy Doyle. They are written by a Dublin man and he set his fictitious story in a low income part of Dublin and he used language that the real people who live there use.

In Ireland he is a celebrated writer and these films are loved and honored by Irish people, as they represent how real Irish people talk and what life was like for real Irish people in the 1990's. They were made by Irish people for Irish people.

But for the American audience, these films had to have subtitles when they were released in American cinemas, and the American audience were not amused by what they call the potty mouth language.

The point I'm making is that these films were made by Irish people for Irish people, using language that Irish people could relate too. If you found the potty mouth too much then you were not the target audience.

Thats exactly the same situation as The Falcon and The Winter Solider, they are made by comic book nerds for comic book nerds with just enough generic content to appeal to a mainstream audience too. Marvel know exactly who their target audience is, how they speak and what they expect from the characters.

 

[Karin1984]

I am not bothered by swearing, but I do notice it and do think from time to time, 'does it add anything', 'does it improve the story or character'? In some cases it does, the use of foul language can tell you a lot about a character about when and how he swears, especially if it is well written and there is a distinction in speech between different characters. Why does this one swear, but the other doesn't.

But if it is just generic swearing to sound more edgy or whatever, then it's the same as showing nudity to show nudity.

 

[tzolkin]

I find it amusing that people are bothered by a little cursing while watching people shoot and beat each other to death.

I've never understood this either. I cannot understand why swearing or partial nudity are considered so harmful to children, but most people think nothing about them being exposed to violence.

As I said, I used to curse a lot. When we had our first child, I stopped. Simply because I didn't want cursing to be so habitual that I'd curse in front of my child. Will they hear the words in school/on the playground? I'm sure. Doesn't mean *I* want/need to be the one to introduce them to it.

I know many people feel this way, but I guess I just don't quite understand what harm is being done by occasionally cursing in front of a child.

I think I equate it to some people who believe alcohol should never be consumed in front of a child, which I also don't understand. Children are capable of understanding that alcohol is something reserved for adults and I believe it's healthy for them to be exposed to adults enjoying a drink in moderation on occasion. When it is always hidden, I think that's what makes it more "forbidden" and they may not learn the tools to use in moderation or appropriate situations when they become adults themselves.

I would think the same would apply to swearing. If children have never been exposed to it, how do they learn to navigate social cues and determine what situations are appropriate for swearing and which are unacceptable?

IMO, it is extremely rare when a curse word is NEEDED. People only use curse words because it's "verboten". Think about it... why do you say the "F-word" and not "FUDGE!"? Habit? Because somehow it "means" more? Or because you're a "rebel"?

Of course the "f-word" means more than "fudge". That's how swearing works. There is an element of taboo which gives those words greater weight. Even within swearing, different words carry different weight. This is understood in each society and is how you can instantly recognize the severity of emotion being expressed between two different swear words.

There are lots of reasons why people swear and it's not just to "look cool". Here are a few examples, most backed by scientific studies:
-- swearing is cathartic
-- to express a direct, succinct emotion (both positive and negative) in a way that any other words would not get across
-- pain relief / the ability to endure greater pain (I have a great lamaze technique involving the f-word )
-- to put others at ease and gain access to a group (this is often helpful in workplace dynamics)
-- humor
-- because it's a natural and universal part of human existence

ETA: There are tons of articles and studies on the subject of swearing, but here's a brief one you may find interesting: Why We Swear: Profanity Is Powerful | Time

 

[C&Jx2]

Well, I never said it doesn’t belong. I guess I’ll give you that my rhetorical question in the header implies that, but the body of the post really just says it’s purpose is gratuitous, and not that it shouldn’t be there or that I am against swearing. I don’t even say I don’t want my kids to watch people swear, or that I think violence is ok and swearing isn’t. Of course it has mostly become an argument amongst others, so maybe it wouldn’t be shorter at all so I’ll give that to you.

But just between you an me, I posted this thread sarcastically anyway. I don’t really care about the swearing or it’s purpose. And then once it got all this attention, I started eating it all up. My posts are rather quite comical, and I even mention the very fact that I did it sarcastically earlier in the thread. But I’m going to keep going all the same. This particular post that you replied to had the purpose of stirring the pot more. It’s too much fun. If it starts getting boring, I’m going to say something like superheroes wear tights and are for kids, but not yet. Please enjoy. People don’t read the middle of the posts anyway, so let me just finish by saying...

But what about the children. Is anyone thinking about the children!

K.

 

[BadPinkTink]

Even within swearing, different words carry different weight. This is understood in each society and is how you can instantly recognize the severity of emotion being expressed between two different swear words.

This is so true here in Ireland.
The expression " well f me" would be a very common expression of surprise or amazement or shock, or astonishment, as in well f me, you won the lottery, wow, seriously, thats a big deal.

Thats just normal every day language in Ireland, but I guess going by the reactions here in this thread, many wouldnt understand and think its wrong.

 

[Moliphino]

Most of us don’t think it’s gratuitous.

Yup. Like I said, I hadn't even noticed any cursing. It was not enough to make any impression.

 

[ford family]

This is so true here in Ireland.
The expression " well f me" would be a very common expression of surprise or amazement or shock, or astonishment, as in well f me, you won the lottery, wow, seriously, thats a big deal.

Thats just normal every day language in Ireland, but I guess going by the reactions here in this thread, many wouldnt understand and think its wrong.

By coincidence there was a new comedy series starting on tv in the UK last night. I think it was an Irish production, it was certainly set in the Republic. The cast included the sons of a respected Irish actor so we decided to give it a try. It was quite funny but the language was too much for us and we gave up even before the break.
If your tolerance for swearing is such that it doesn't bother you then you have access to a greater number of films and tv shows than we do!!
What I struggle with, however, is why people feel the need to come on here and boast about how much they swear as though it was something to be proud of.
Each to their own, I suppose.

ford family

 

[FlightlessDuck]

What? Go watch a Tarantino movie or Scarface. I didn’t even notice it.

Tarantino's love of the N-word makes me squirm.

 

[Timandalicia]

Of coooouuuuurse it was.

What? You’re not buying it. Well let’s go back to the fact that even if it weren’t, the post itself is rather tame and doesn’t deserve the attention it is getting. It’s more one of those things you say in passing or when you’re sitting in the recliner. Albeit the title is kinda grabbing. But, if you don’t buy that I’m just having fun you should read more of my posts on this thread and elsewhere.

 

[BadPinkTink]

By coincidence there was a new comedy series starting on tv in the UK last night. I think it was an Irish production, it was certainly set in the Republic. The cast included the sons of a respected Irish actor so we decided to give it a try. It was quite funny but the language was too much for us and we gave up even before the break.
If your tolerance for swearing is such that it doesn't bother you then you have access to a greater number of films and tv shows than we do!!
What I struggle with, however, is why people feel the need to come on here and boast about how much they swear as though it was something to be proud of.
Each to their own, I suppose.

ford family

Interesting, I would love to know the name of the TV show you were watching.

 

[Arym]

These are more like the Netflix shows. I’m cool with it. Eventually your kids will swear a lot. No big deal. We all do it.

No, we don't all do it. And, all kids do not, either. Of my now adult daughters, I would guess my oldest lets a mild word fly out every now and then, but my younger two do not and never have. You can assume I'm naive about it or think whatever you want but they don't. My youngest two have the same group of friends and while I'm sure a few of the boys swear extremely infrequently, I know quite a few of the guys do not.

Very good points. As I said, I don't mind cursing in entertainment when it is judiciously employed to further the plot, but curses, by their very nature, are high-powered words; so when you use too many at once, the whole point of using them is rendered moot. Sort of the "super" argument from The Incredibles: If everyone is super, then no one is. If every word is a curse, then curses no longer have power, and they become equivalent to a 4 year old running around saying "poop" over and over -- laughable and a bit pathetic.

Curses are sort of the storytelling equivalent of a condiment; properly used, they add color and flavor to a story, but when you overdo it, all you can taste is that one element, and every other aspect of the story is smothered by them. Just like I wouldn't enjoy drinking ketchup directly from the bottle, I'm not impressed with dialogue that is all condiment with no meal underneath.

This is a great explanation! I hate certain curse words and cringe when I hear them, especially from people actually talking to me or near me (as opposed to in a movie/tv show). I know studies have shown that intelligent people curse with the best of 'em, but when I hear people riddle their conversation with cursing, I wonder why they can't use actual adjectives to describe what they are saying. Repeating f****** this and f****** that does nothing to convey meaning. It absolutely sounds like a child saying "poop" over and over again.

 

[sam_gordon]

I know many people feel this way, but I guess I just don't quite understand what harm is being done by occasionally cursing in front of a child.

Never said cursing "harms" a child. They're not going to become juvenile delinquents simply because people curse in front of them. But, especially at younger ages, IMO, hearing adults regularly use curse words shows them they're ok to use, or are you immediately explaining to them that it's ok for Mommy or Daddy to use the word but not themselves?

I think I equate it to some people who believe alcohol should never be consumed in front of a child, which I also don't understand. Children are capable of understanding that alcohol is something reserved for adults and I believe it's healthy for them to be exposed to adults enjoying a drink in moderation on occasion. When it is always hidden, I think that's what makes it more "forbidden" and they may not learn the tools to use in moderation or appropriate situations when they become adults themselves.

I wouldn't understand why people think drinking alcohol in front of kids shouldn't be done. I don't think you need to make a point of it, but "hidden"? If you're at a restaurant, cook out, you get a drink. How does the child even know it's alcohol?

I would think the same would apply to swearing. If children have never been exposed to it, how do they learn to navigate social cues and determine what situations are appropriate for swearing and which are unacceptable?

umm, they'll hear about it from friends? If they're not exposed to it (which I'm not advocating), then they wouldn't know HOW to use the words whether the situation is appropriate or not. Seems like a strange argument.

Of course the "f-word" means more than "fudge". That's how swearing works. There is an element of taboo which gives those words greater weight. Even within swearing, different words carry different weight. This is understood in each society and is how you can instantly recognize the severity of emotion being expressed between two different swear words.

I picked "fudge" just because that's the first word that came to mind, insert whatever you'd like. To me, it's not the specific word you're using that's important, but the tone.

There are lots of reasons why people swear and it's not just to "look cool". Here are a few examples, most backed by scientific studies:
-- swearing is cathartic
-- to express a direct, succinct emotion (both positive and negative) in a way that any other words would not get across
-- pain relief / the ability to endure greater pain (I have a great lamaze technique involving the f-word )
-- to put others at ease and gain access to a group (this is often helpful in workplace dynamics)
-- humor
-- because it's a natural and universal part of human existence

ETA: There are tons of articles and studies on the subject of swearing, but here's a brief one you may find interesting: Why We Swear: Profanity Is Powerful | Time

As someone said before, overuse of swearing does nothing more than take the effect OUT of the words. *I* feel my use of alternative words accomplishes the same goal WITH the added benefit that I don't need to worry about who is in listening distance.

 

[ford family]

Interesting, I would love to know the name of the TV show you were watching.

I looked back on the schedule, it is called "Frank of Ireland" with Brian and Domhnall Gleeson whose father, Brendan is a favourite of ours.
It is a Channel 4/Amazon production.

ford family

 

[BadPinkTink]

I looked back on the schedule, it is called "Frank of Ireland" with Brian and Domhnall Gleeson whose father, Brendan is a favourite of ours.
It is a Channel 4/Amazon production.

ford family

Thanks, never heard of it, but when I Googled it, all the reviews mention about the language, so I guess if you were in UK / Ireland you would have seen the promos and known about the warnings. Again, just proves my point, that films and TV shows are made for a specific audience, in this case a UK / Irish audience, not an American audience.

 

[ford family]

Thanks, never heard of it, but when I Googled it, all the reviews mention about the language, so I guess if you were in UK / Ireland you would have seen the promos and known about the warnings. Again, just proves my point, that films and TV shows are made for a specific audience, in this case a UK / Irish audience, not an American audience.

We hadn't seen anything about it.
We had just finished watching the Man Utd v Granada game and it showed up on the Virgin guide as about to start.
Recognising the Gleeson name we took a look.

ford family

 

[RamblingMad]

Thanks, never heard of it, but when I Googled it, all the reviews mention about the language, so I guess if you were in UK / Ireland you would have seen the promos and known about the warnings. Again, just proves my point, that films and TV shows are made for a specific audience, in this case a UK / Irish audience, not an American audience.

Standard differences between the US and UK are bizarre. If I'm remember right, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles needed to be renamed for UK broadcast.

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/90945/why-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-was-hero-turtles-uk

 

[KingAugie]

[

 

[BadPinkTink]

Standard differences between the US and UK are bizarre. If I'm remember right, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles needed to be renamed for UK broadcast.

yep and the same with Harry Potter , JK Rowling named it Harry Potter and The Philosophers Stone but she had to agree to the name being changed to Harry Potter and The Sorcerers Stone for both the book and film release in America.