Chauvin Verdict In

[MamaMermaid]

It’s been an emotional day - very happy with the decision. I hope it brings some peace to his family.

 

[mefordis]

What I hope comes out of this is better police training. The police work for the citizens and are there to protect us, not kill us.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

One legal question I have for any experts out there concerns the charges. For some reason I thought prosecutors would charge someone with what they expected to be able to prove and used to select say murder over manslaughter if they thought that is what they could prove. Now here there was murder 2, murder 3 and manslaughter 2.

So could prosecutors always choose to file multiple charges like that if they felt the jury would convict on all? They just usually do not?

I'd like to bring your question back up before the thread gets locked. I'm not surprised there were three counts, but I don't understand how he could be convicted of all three. He only killed GF once. If they had assault (or other physical charge), I could understand.

I'm simply asking about the legalities. I am not surprised he was found guilty (I thought he deserved at least murder 3). I just don't understand how one death = two murder charges and a manslaughter.

The charges by my understanding were not lesser included charges for one count but three separate counts for various acts and/or states of mind committed during the long incident resulting in death. The number of counts of murder/manslaughter is not limited to the number of people killed. Here, merging of the counts would occur for sentencing. I do not know Minnesota law, however.

 

[JimMIA]

One legal question I have for any experts out there concerns the charges. For some reason I thought prosecutors would charge someone with what they expected to be able to prove and used to select say murder over manslaughter if they thought that is what they could prove. Now here there was murder 2, murder 3 and manslaughter 2.

So could prosecutors always choose to file multiple charges like that if they felt the jury would convict on all? They just usually do not?

It depends on where you are, how the laws are applied, and possibly on the rules of criminal procedure.

For example, in some states (Florida is one) often alternatives are built into the jury's options as "lesser included crimes." So for robbery, theft might also be found even though it was not specifically charged by the prosecutor in the indictment.

However, that's apparently not how they do it in Minnesota. In this particular case, Chauvin was originally charged with Murder 2, Murder 3, and Manslaughter 2...and there are apparently no "lesser includeds."

The trial judge, Judge Cahill, granted a defense motion to remove Murder 3 from the charges because he didn't think the facts met the elements of that crime. The prosecution appealed and the MN Supreme Court reinstated the charge. That is one obvious issue that will be appealed.

 

[usnuzuloose]

Floyd broke the law in passing a fake 20. He needed to be held accountable, but certainly not death. Just the same for the officer he needed to be held accountable for any injustice done. I saw a picture of where Chauven held his toes off the ground which would put his full weight on his neck. I would like to know from the time the issue was caught and how far from Floyd taking his last breath.

 

[HiStitch626]

What I hope comes out of this is better police training. The police work for the citizens and are there to protect us, not kill us.

I heard an interesting interview with a senior police detective yesterday. It was on our conservative radio station that I sometimes listen to just to get a different point of view. I think the host thought that the detective would be very against any changes to the police department. But it’s not what the detective said. One of the things he talked about was increased training and he compared his police academy to what current police recruits get. He said many of them are not really ready to be out on patrol, but they don’t have any choice. There’s not enough money to train them the way police were once trained. The other thing he emphasized was that the police need to be out of the mental health business and that there need to be more social workers and people experienced with mental health issues to deal with people in crises. He also said we need to be much more focused on rehab for people with drug problems instead of just pushing them through the penal system. But, of course all of this would cost money and no one wants to pay for anything these days.

 

[JimMIA]

To answer this question, what I’m reading is he only will get sentenced on one (the 2nd degree murder charge). So they charge all 3 in hopes at least one is guilty. So my understanding is that the jury found enough evidence for the most serious charge, which means by default the lesser two were also met.

That's incorrect in almost every respect. He will be sentenced on each of the three charges he was convicted of.

The part that is correct is the multiple charges, hoping one or more would stick.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

That's incorrect in almost every respect. He will be sentenced on each of the three charges he was convicted of.

The part that is correct is the multiple charges, hoping one or more would stick.

Quoting a news article, but sure. (Which is an AP article)

 

[disney4us2002]

What I hope comes out of this is better police training. The police work for the citizens and are there to protect us, not kill us.

This is why there cannot actually be good conversation about a complicated issue. Disrespect. Many more police die in the line of duty than "kill us".

Yes, there does need to be additional police training. There also needs to be public training - such as, when you are directed by the police to do something, do it. Actions have consequences. They do not need to lead to death but so many of these cases in the news began because of trying to flea, fighting back, etc. I raised my three sons to stay alive. If they were ever pulled over, got a ticket, anything, do what's asked and we can sort out the rest later. What we cannot do is bring them back to life if they're killed.

 

[JimMIA]

I think the host thought that the detective would be very against any changes to the police department. But it’s not what the detective said.

Nope. Good cops are very much in favor of positive changes, and also in favor of getting rid of bad cops.

 

[penn19]

Meanwhile, in Columbus

https://twitter.com/x/status/1384620342606450688

Was that the teen girl with the knife?

 

[JimMIA]

Quoting a news article, but sure. (Which is an AP article)

View attachment 569540

Twitter wisdom is often incorrect.

Actually, researching it further, I find that you are probably correct.

 

[Dan Murphy]

My goodness... at least I have some entertainment tonight.

That’ll come later on tonight, riots are almost guaranteed and available to live-stream.

Sad that some people would think that riots are considered entertainment by them, not being satisfied with reading a thread on a Disney fan site.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Twitter wisdom is often incorrect.

My point was that I was trying to answer a question with information I found from a news article.

Maybe try to be less condescending in some of your responses if you’re actually interested in having a conversation.

 

[JimMIA]

My point was that I was trying to answer a question with information I found from a news article.

Maybe try to be less condescending in some of your responses if you’re actually interested in having a conversation.

I corrected my post. You are probably correct.

 

[daisy2013]

This is why there cannot actually be good conversation about a complicated issue. Disrespect. Many more police die in the line of duty than "kill us".

Yes, there does need to be additional police training. There also needs to be public training - such as, when you are directed by the police to do something, do it. Actions have consequences. They do not need to lead to death but so many of these cases in the news began because of trying to flea, fighting back, etc. I raised my three sons to stay alive. If they were ever pulled over, got a ticket, anything, do what's asked and we can sort out the rest later. What we cannot do is bring them back to life if they're killed.

You’re a little off there - according to the statica approximately 1000 people are killed each year by police. According to the fbi less than 100 officers were killed each year and that includes accidents, medical conditions etc I would provide fbi stats for number of police shootings but I couldn’t find them and it looks like they didn’t count until just a few years ago.

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/p...forcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-dutyhttps://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

 

[bcla]

To answer this question, what I’m reading is he only will get sentenced on one (the 2nd degree murder charge). So they charge all 3 in hopes at least one is guilty. So my understanding is that the jury found enough evidence for the most serious charge, which means by default the lesser two were also met.

Strangely enough I believe they're all considered independent charges and independent convictions. There are sentencing guidelines, but the jury is going back to decide on enhancements, such as committing a criminal act in the presence of a child.

Not sure about Minnesota, but in many states, sentences can be served concurrently such that the longest sentence is effectively the only sentence that matters. The guidelines would seem to make it a 12.5 year sentence all the charges unless there are enhancements tacked on. But the judge has a certain amount of discretion.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

I corrected my post. You are probably correct.

Thank you for that

 

[JimMIA]

There are sentencing guidelines, but the jury is going back to decide on enhancements, such as committing a criminal act in the presence of a child.

That's incorrect. Chauvin waived his right to jury trial of those issues and Judge Cahill will decide whether or not to exceed the standard sentencing guidelines.

 

[bcla]

The trial judge, Judge Cahill, granted a defense motion to remove Murder 3 from the charges because he didn't think the facts met the elements of that crime. The prosecution appealed and the MN Supreme Court reinstated the charge. That is one obvious issue that will be appealed.

It may not effectively matter. I'm guessing the judge will hand out concurrent sentences.