Caliexit
- Thread starter mummabear
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bcla
On our rugged Eastern foothills.....
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2012
I guess you can look into the proposals for how Quebec or Scotland were supposed to make an exit. However, those are kind of different because there is a distinct cultural difference between them and the rest of the country.
Of course there are the issues of government-owned resources. The federal government provides courts, military, border protection, air traffic control, etc. Many people from around the country get posted to assignments in California. Many Californians are working around the country (or in the military). That would be really tough to sort out. Also - many private employers hire people from all around the US. I don't know if there would necessarily be any terrible brain drain, especially with the possibility that a new nation would allow skilled workers to immigrate more freely than the current H-1B program.
It would also be difficult sorting out issues of citizenship/nationality. US citizens are pretty much never denied citizenship even if their place of birth would leave the United States. We've had US territories (Philippines, Panama Canal Zone) exit the United States, but they had a special status where one wasn't born a US citizen but a non-citizen US national. They generally lost that US nationality when their territory left. Right now American Samoa is the only territory with that status. You could look into how China took over both Hong Kong and Macau. In Hong Kong the people generally had a special status where they were UK subjects, but not necessarily UK citizens save those who applied for it. In Macau, Portugal granted full citizenship and those who had it were allowed to keep it even though China considered them to be their citizens under a special status.
I have no doubt that it could be sorted out because there's certainly the resources for California to exist as an independent nation. It would still be messy and I don't really see it happening.
Of course there are the issues of government-owned resources. The federal government provides courts, military, border protection, air traffic control, etc. Many people from around the country get posted to assignments in California. Many Californians are working around the country (or in the military). That would be really tough to sort out. Also - many private employers hire people from all around the US. I don't know if there would necessarily be any terrible brain drain, especially with the possibility that a new nation would allow skilled workers to immigrate more freely than the current H-1B program.
It would also be difficult sorting out issues of citizenship/nationality. US citizens are pretty much never denied citizenship even if their place of birth would leave the United States. We've had US territories (Philippines, Panama Canal Zone) exit the United States, but they had a special status where one wasn't born a US citizen but a non-citizen US national. They generally lost that US nationality when their territory left. Right now American Samoa is the only territory with that status. You could look into how China took over both Hong Kong and Macau. In Hong Kong the people generally had a special status where they were UK subjects, but not necessarily UK citizens save those who applied for it. In Macau, Portugal granted full citizenship and those who had it were allowed to keep it even though China considered them to be their citizens under a special status.
I have no doubt that it could be sorted out because there's certainly the resources for California to exist as an independent nation. It would still be messy and I don't really see it happening.
bcla
On our rugged Eastern foothills.....
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2012
Not really. Most water in California originates in California. The State Water Project and the Central Valley Project are the big water sources in California, and they're completely self-contained. It would get tricky sorting out stuff like rivers that snake through neighboring states like the Klamath River. Lake Tahoe would get really interesting with its water claims and resource protections.
Another issue would be the agreements with Inidian tribes, especially since they have water and fishing rights that were negotiated with the federal government.
Marchand63
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2016
Since this is so obviously not a political thread
. California take your 55 balls and go home 
. California take your 55 balls and go home 
Colleen27
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2007
Theoretically... there's no precedent and no legal process to follow. But if the powers that be were inclined to let it happen, for non-DIS-friendly reasons, and a majority of states' legislatures (enough to carry the process out via constitutional amendment) agreed, I suppose anything is possible.
The whole "campaign" is a political stunt and if you follow the money its backers aren't who you might think they'd be. It would be for the best if it were to die a quick and quiet death sooner rather than later.
The whole "campaign" is a political stunt and if you follow the money its backers aren't who you might think they'd be. It would be for the best if it were to die a quick and quiet death sooner rather than later.
mummabear
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- May 2, 2012
I think we are on the safe side of polictical if we continue to avoid the specific reasons why the want to exit and focus on whether an exit is possible and could be successful.
bcla
On our rugged Eastern foothills.....
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2012
I'd say that if all sides somehow agreed to it, California could easily survive as its own entity. It's generally a desirable place to live because of weather. It could be fairly self-sufficient in terms of food production, and anything that couldn't be produced could be imported like it is now. Pretty much any major recreational activity (skiing, surfing, etc) available in the United States is available in California.
The messy part would be settling issues of citizenship/nationality, as well as corporate issues such as whether or not large companies handle things like incorporation. The largest company headquartered in California is Chevron, but they're incorporated in another state.
If anything happened, I would think a more likely outcome would be a confederation that's not an absolute split. Something more like a semi-autonomous state with the state taking over certain controls that the federal government would normally have. That would be easier when it comes to things like military issues. You can look at where the Russians leased their space launch facilities.
So come to think of it, the dissolution of the Soviet Union might provide an idea how this could go down. Probably not as chaotic though, since that was kind of random how it happened.
The messy part would be settling issues of citizenship/nationality, as well as corporate issues such as whether or not large companies handle things like incorporation. The largest company headquartered in California is Chevron, but they're incorporated in another state.
If anything happened, I would think a more likely outcome would be a confederation that's not an absolute split. Something more like a semi-autonomous state with the state taking over certain controls that the federal government would normally have. That would be easier when it comes to things like military issues. You can look at where the Russians leased their space launch facilities.
So come to think of it, the dissolution of the Soviet Union might provide an idea how this could go down. Probably not as chaotic though, since that was kind of random how it happened.
bcla
On our rugged Eastern foothills.....
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2012
I heard that there was talk about the Eastern Canadian provinces merging with the US if Quebec seceded.
kimblebee
now my thoughts will be worth 5 cents
- Joined
- May 28, 2009
As a Canadian, I say no thanks.
Adelle Dazeem
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2014
As an American, I also say no thanks!
bcla
On our rugged Eastern foothills.....
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2012
I kind of like the possibility of going somewhere I know I can kind of blend in, yet there are real differences. Mostly speaking the same language, but some interesting differences.
I guess I don't see much difference between the two countries. People in Seattle are more like people in Vancouver than they are like people from NYC. Just like people from Vancouver are more like people from Seattle than they are like people from Toronto.
bcla
On our rugged Eastern foothills.....
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2012
Vancouver is kind of isolated though. I was in BC a few weeks ago. Other than a Tim Hortons on every corner and odd looking fuel prices, I would have thought I was in Seattle walking around and talking to people. In my conversations I couldn't really say that I could tell anyone was Canadian. I went on an eating spree in Richmond, so there it seemed like a lot of Asian immigrants.
Now I've worked with a guy from Newfoundland. He definitely sounded Canadian to me. Also a guy who grew up near Toronto, but if I were to guess from the way he sounded, I'd think he grew up in San Francisco. I thought that Canadians were supposed to sound like the McKenzie Brothers.
tarheelmjfan
Proud Redhead
- Joined
- May 10, 2001
I've been hearing about California's desire to secede, since I was in high school, which has been a few decades. 
I no longer pay much attention to it. Since we're discussing it, I've always wondered what their plan is to replace the US military support. Has that been discussed? If the vote passed & they were allowed to secede, the US military would most likely pull out immediately. Considering their economy, they will no doubt face invasions & takeover attempts from more countries than the US. Do they have a plan for that?
I no longer pay much attention to it. Since we're discussing it, I've always wondered what their plan is to replace the US military support. Has that been discussed? If the vote passed & they were allowed to secede, the US military would most likely pull out immediately. Considering their economy, they will no doubt face invasions & takeover attempts from more countries than the US. Do they have a plan for that?
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bcla
On our rugged Eastern foothills.....
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2012
I've been hearing about California's desire to secede, since I was in high school, which has been a few decades.
It would be interesting. I think a similar situation would be what happened with the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Maybe such a secession could be more planned and less chaotic, but in the Soviet case, military materiel wasn't necessarily pulled out, and forces were recalled back to their particular home states. The former Soviet military forces were divided into multiple militaries. Ukraine had a lot of former Soviet military bases as well as equipment like aircraft, tanks, ships, etc. They had a joint Russia-Ukraine Black Sea Fleet to produce a more orderly transition. The proportion of Californians serving in the US military is pretty much proportional to the proportion of Californians, so there wouldn't necessarily be any lack of trained personnel.
Even with the Panama Canal Treaty, the removal of the US military was in gradual steps. When the Philippines became independent, they didn't immediately lose US military support. If there were any orderly secession (not like the Civil War) then I don't see the US pulling out the military immediately. It wouldn't make much sense because there would still be US citizens living in an independent California, and Californians would still remain US citizens.
dclpluto
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- May 11, 2012
14 states pay more in federal than they receive from federal. Yes California is one of them. My state New Jersey is also one of them. one state gets over 7 dollars for every dollar they pay to federal. Also a state that is a lot of people vacation spot here is also very high on the list think it was number 3 of getting paid by federal.
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