Potentially unpopular opinion regarding point rentals

yesdnil said:
SO HERE'S THE UNPOPULAR OPINION PART: What if 11-month home resort priority booking was only for members staying on that reservation? Members planning to rent/trade/borrow points could still do whatever they want, but they'd have to wait until 7 months to book.
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No thank you.

yesdnil said:
Is this how they get us?!
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Hasn't gotten me. I've had amazing luck even getting studios as close in as just over amonth (at GF during Princess and on xmas eve and day!). Even if I didn't have that luck I had other rooms booked (and when I changed I opened up a reservation for what I'd booked at 11 months and made someone else's day).

And if I truly NEEDED to stay somewhere and couldn't wait it out like that, then I would rent some other owner's stay (maybe, IF I could find one).

I haven't wanted or needed to buy any more points or any other resorts (OK well I wished I could have traded bay lake and gotten grand flo once I stayed at GF) beyond the 160 we bought in 2009.

You don't even own yet and IMO you're overthinking it all. Wait until/unless it is/becomes a problem. Buy where you love.
 


yesdnil said:
SO HERE'S THE UNPOPULAR OPINION PART: What if 11-month home resort priority booking was only for members staying on that reservation? Members planning to rent/trade/borrow points could still do whatever they want, but they'd have to wait until 7 months to book.
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This idea just seems like a recipe for even more disappointment at the 7-month window as it will only create even more people trying for the reservation at 7 months. So, instead of knowing the reservation is gone because an owner used home resort priority, now you have your hopes up getting the reservation at the 7-month window, only for your hopes to be completely shattered when the reservation disappears in 1 second when the window opens (because after all you are now competing with owners too). If you want to be guaranteed a reservation at a anyone resort, the only sure fire way to get that guarantee is buying points there. Anything else is just shifting competition for availability.
 
Just learn how to make the most out of the waitlist. I got a weekend stay at the Poly last month, booked about 4 weeks prior and was waitlisted for about 2 days. Had to make the most of the 40% DVC spa discount. And the AP. That's where they really get ya! :)
 
Right now the economy is high and flourishing, people are flush with cash so it's maybe a bit harder to get what you want. Personally, it's never been a problem for me, not at 11 months, not at 7 months, I've always been able to switch, and only once have I not gotten my waitlist. For me, it's the date that matters, I'm not so hung up on the resort, there's enough to like about every resort, so there's no disappointment. And if I end up at other resorts rather than my home, OKW, it's because I planned late, more like at the 5 month window and OKW was booked up but I still got a reservation. Long term successful DVC Timeshare ownership requires the ability to plan ahead and to be flexible.
 


yesdnil said:
Am I the only one who feels discouraged that non-members have this advantage over us?
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I'm not seeing how this is a case of non-members having an advantage over members.

At the moment that 11-month window opens for, say, BRV in the first week of December, it's all BRV owners on the phone. It's a level playing field. Does it matter which bodies are going to stay in the room? Does it make a difference to you if you can't get the room because I'm staying in it, or my cousin and her husband are staying in it, or my coworker and his wife are staying in, or a stranger that I rented to, who's paying me to stay in it? Does it matter if I originally booked the room for myself, found I couldn't go because of a family illness and then rented the reservation? No matter who's sleeping in the room, it's booked.

It's also not true that it's never possible to book a non-home resort at 7 months. At certain times of year, or certain resorts/room types, yes, it can be nearly impossible to get a reservation at 7 months, but it's not true year round, and not at every resort. The reality of timesharing is that some times of year and some resorts are going to be more in demand than others. And those popular bookings are going to have to be made as early as possible.

There's also a practical problem with your proposal. Let's say DVC says, only the members on the contract can stay in the room. Does that mean I can't book a room for my sister's family with my points, if they're vacationing with us? What if she's paying me for the reservation? That would be a rental under your description, and shouldn't be allowed. Can I only make the reservation if she doesn't pay me? How would DVC know whether she paid me or not? OK, so you make an exception for family. How would I prove that the person I made the reservation for is related to me?

Part of the draw for DVC has always been the ability to bring family and friends, and to gift stays to family and friends. I think if you took that away, sales for DVC would go way down. I think sales would also go down if you took the safety net of renting away. Over the couple of decades that I've been a member, there have been periods when I couldn't travel due to job duties, family illnesses, caring for a relative. If I hadn't been able to rent, I would have lost a *lot* of money in maintenance fees for lodging I wasn't using. If DVC were structured as the members-only, private club you're describing, I never would have bought my membership.

I think your concern is based on the assumption that there's some kind of commercial entity out there that's making massive numbers of reservations at peak times and reselling them. That's not happening, and the membership contract doesn't allow it. In nearly 20 years of reading this board daily, I've never seen any evidence that that's going on. And believe me, these boards would be in flames if there was even a hint of it.

As you learn more about DVC and how it works, I think you'll come to understand that what you fear is happening...isn't happening. Peak times get booked early because members want those reservations for themselves. Do they sometimes make rental reservations for peak times? Sure. But those rooms would be booked regardless.
 
Lynne M said:
I think your concern is based on the assumption that there's some kind of commercial entity out there that's making massive numbers of reservations at peak times and reselling them. That's not happening, and the membership contract doesn't allow it. In nearly 20 years of reading this board daily, I've never seen any evidence that that's going on. And believe me, these boards would be in flames if there was even a hint of it.
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What's more, the "rental problem" has ebbed and flowed with the overall travel demand to WDW. That has been strong and growing for several years now, and so the rental market is hot. There are even people planning to buy extra points just to rent them out at a profit.

But it wasn't always thus. For example, during the late 00's as the recession took hold, people were putting rentals up and near fire-sale prices just to get something back for points they could not afford to use themselves. Others were selling at ever-decreasing prices rather than face that. Will we ever be back in that situation? Maybe not. But the economy (and resulting travel demand) is not going to grow forever, because it never does.
 
Lynne M said:
Over the couple of decades that I've been a member, there have been periods when I couldn't travel due to job duties, family illnesses, caring for a relative. If I hadn't been able to rent, I would have lost a *lot* of money in maintenance fees for lodging I wasn't using.
.
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so true, during the last recession many DVC owners rented their points just to be able to hang on to their memberships, while many others had to sell them, or even gave them back to Disney.
 
To the OP, your seeing the frustration of booking at 7 months. Even at 11 months, depending on where you want to stay and when, you may not even get that reservation on the first day of 11 months. Thus, the work around. Walking a reservation....
 
BillPA said:
I think the problem is too many buy the lowest cost resort with no plans to ever stay there, and try to switch at 7 months.
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That's not exactly a new "problem." In the mid-90s, people bought points at Old Key West, Hilton Head or Vero, hoping to book rooms at the Boardwalk.

It's unrealistic to think that every resort will have similar demand. There are always more popular and less popular locations. And there's a very easy way to combat 7 month booking difficulties: choose Home resort carefully + book early.
 
zavandor said:
This is a case of "beware what you wish for". Any rule DVC could think of for limiting rental would hurt in bigger measure owners.
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Maybe only the big renters. But average owners? Not really.
 
Deb & Bill said:
Maybe only the big renters. But average owners? Not really.
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For example the suggestion by the OP: limiting the 11 months only for stays where the owner is present. And suddenly you cannoy book a stay for your child's honeymoon.
Or they charge to change names on a reservation, and suddenly you have to pay if your mum wants to join you.
Or you cannot go one year for medical reasons and you loose your points.
I am ready to bet rentals are less than 1% of total reservations. Any rule made to make those 1% more difficult or expensive will have an impact on the remaining 99%.
 
yesdnil said:
Hello, all. We're new DVC members, so we're still exploring the insurance and outs of membership and doing our research about all the resorts and the quirks of DVC booking vs booking a regular stay at a deluxe resort.

Anyway, I've been a little bothered/disappointed by the way that it looks nearly impossible to book at a WDW resort that isn't your home resort at 7 months, especially considering that a lot of those 11 month bookings are just from people planning to rent out their reservation during popular events (e.g. BCV during any Epcot festival)

Personally, I think we'll be okay because we bought where we plan to stay most of the time (CCV), and we're planning to stay in larger villas (not studios). The other resorts we're most interested in (like Kidani savannah view) tend to have better availability anyway. But from what I've observed, I think we'll have an extremely difficult time ever staying at BCV or Poly without waitlisting and/or RAT stalking, which seems unfair, considering non-members can rent points so easily.

SO HERE'S THE UNPOPULAR OPINION PART: What if 11-month home resort priority booking was only for members staying on that reservation? Members planning to rent/trade/borrow points could still do whatever they want, but they'd have to wait until 7 months to book.

Thoughts? I'm not looking to start any fights! Just curious what members who've been around longer think about this idea. I could be totally overlooking something, so let me know what you think!
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Welcome Home.

Interesting thread topic. Nothing wrong with an unpopular opinion BTW.

Waitlisting is all part of the game. Those here are at least armed with strategies to try to improved their odds securing the reservation they want.

1 & 2 BR seem to be available for dates I check long after the studios have vanished, you should do well.

jlwhitney said:
If you aren't wanting studios booking at 7 months at most places most of the year really is not that hard.
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Nice to hear you do well, but I must be looking at different dates/resorts than you. Will say WL has come through for me more than stalking RAT

Lynne M said:
I'm not seeing how this is a case of non-members having an advantage over members.

At the moment that 11-month window opens for, say, BRV in the first week of December, it's all BRV owners on the phone. It's a level playing field. Does it matter which bodies are going to stay in the room? Does it make a difference to you if you can't get the room because I'm staying in it, or my cousin and her husband are staying in it, or my coworker and his wife are staying in, or a stranger that I rented to, who's paying me to stay in it? Does it matter if I originally booked the room for myself, found I couldn't go because of a family illness and then rented the reservation? No matter who's sleeping in the room, it's booked.

It's also not true that it's never possible to book a non-home resort at 7 months. At certain times of year, or certain resorts/room types, yes, it can be nearly impossible to get a reservation at 7 months, but it's not true year round, and not at every resort. The reality of timesharing is that some times of year and some resorts are going to be more in demand than others. And those popular bookings are going to have to be made as early as possible.

There's also a practical problem with your proposal. Let's say DVC says, only the members on the contract can stay in the room. Does that mean I can't book a room for my sister's family with my points, if they're vacationing with us? What if she's paying me for the reservation? That would be a rental under your description, and shouldn't be allowed. Can I only make the reservation if she doesn't pay me? How would DVC know whether she paid me or not? OK, so you make an exception for family. How would I prove that the person I made the reservation for is related to me?

Part of the draw for DVC has always been the ability to bring family and friends, and to gift stays to family and friends. I think if you took that away, sales for DVC would go way down. I think sales would also go down if you took the safety net of renting away. Over the couple of decades that I've been a member, there have been periods when I couldn't travel due to job duties, family illnesses, caring for a relative. If I hadn't been able to rent, I would have lost a *lot* of money in maintenance fees for lodging I wasn't using. If DVC were structured as the members-only, private club you're describing, I never would have bought my membership.

I think your concern is based on the assumption that there's some kind of commercial entity out there that's making massive numbers of reservations at peak times and reselling them. That's not happening, and the membership contract doesn't allow it. In nearly 20 years of reading this board daily, I've never seen any evidence that that's going on. And believe me, these boards would be in flames if there was even a hint of it.

As you learn more about DVC and how it works, I think you'll come to understand that what you fear is happening...isn't happening. Peak times get booked early because members want those reservations for themselves. Do they sometimes make rental reservations for peak times? Sure. But those rooms would be booked regardless.
Click to expand...

The 11 month window can be negated by those with enough points in reserve & who are willing to walk a reservation. Another of those strategies/loopholes that come into play.

zavandor said:
This is a case of "beware what you wish for". Any rule DVC could think of for limiting rental would hurt in bigger measure owners.
Click to expand...

IDK, the idea of no rentals for perhaps the first month or two after the window opens seems like something to consider. As in rentals could start 5 months prior to 7 month window. At least it might lessen the professional renting agencies scooping up reservations at the get-go.

Perhaps they could grandfather current resale owners, but limit new resale buyer’s rental capability. Either as described above or eliminate renting entirely.

Not sure if ‘legal’ as to DVC rules. If instituted, it might just ‘break’ the resale market. No hate towards resale owners. We’ve added on both thru DVC but lately via resale.
 
When Disney rents out a dvc room for cash, are they legally considered a renter? If so, I don't think they are ever going to do anything to restrict themselves.
 
zavandor said:
For example the suggestion by the OP: limiting the 11 months only for stays where the owner is present. And suddenly you cannoy book a stay for your child's honeymoon.
Or they charge to change names on a reservation, and suddenly you have to pay if your mum wants to join you.
Or you cannot go one year for medical reasons and you loose your points.
I am ready to bet rentals are less than 1% of total reservations. Any rule made to make those 1% more difficult or expensive will have an impact on the remaining 99%.
Click to expand...
You said renters, not owners who are getting a reservation for the kids, for mom, etc.
 
I have to say I usually get what I want on the 7 month mark. I mean have to be reasonable that hard places like Beachclub will be more difficult during the holidays and other peak periods. I am surprised when I throw together trip for my family and get decent resort. I sometime take OKW and SSR and later change when something better opens up. I am not SSR & OKW hater, I just rather be someplace with more than just buses for transportation.
 
yesdnil said:
Hello, all. We're new DVC members, so we're still exploring the insurance and outs of membership and doing our research about all the resorts and the quirks of DVC booking vs booking a regular stay at a deluxe resort.

Anyway, I've been a little bothered/disappointed by the way that it looks nearly impossible to book at a WDW resort that isn't your home resort at 7 months, especially considering that a lot of those 11 month bookings are just from people planning to rent out their reservation during popular events (e.g. BCV during any Epcot festival)

Personally, I think we'll be okay because we bought where we plan to stay most of the time (CCV), and we're planning to stay in larger villas (not studios). The other resorts we're most interested in (like Kidani savannah view) tend to have better availability anyway. But from what I've observed, I think we'll have an extremely difficult time ever staying at BCV or Poly without waitlisting and/or RAT stalking, which seems unfair, considering non-members can rent points so easily.

SO HERE'S THE UNPOPULAR OPINION PART: What if 11-month home resort priority booking was only for members staying on that reservation? Members planning to rent/trade/borrow points could still do whatever they want, but they'd have to wait until 7 months to book.

Thoughts? I'm not looking to start any fights! Just curious what members who've been around longer think about this idea. I could be totally overlooking something, so let me know what you think!
Click to expand...

Rent/trade....borrow? Have to wait? And only if you stay on the reservation? What if you bring people with you and get them their own rooms? You can book your room but not rooms for your non-member family? Also DVC themselves "rents" out rooms.

A couple of thoughts - at the moment you have little or no personal experience with the 7 month window if you are brand new owners. All your thoughts are being developed from complaints of others and the boards tend to get the complaints and disregard the success stories as unrealistic or outlier exceptions.

Second - what you are referring to is actually trading at 7 months. In essence it's a benefit offered within the system but is not guaranteed. And DVC with it's point based system actually is NEVER a guaranteed room system even at your very own home resort except for the few fixed week owners. It's a trade off with the flexibility to book single nights or any length of stay. I say it's quite nice that there are all these resorts that one has the opportunity to book at if there is availability and not something to be griped about that they aren't just sitting there waiting for anyone to book whenever they want.

Third - no matter who is staying in the room it is being booked by an owner. All owners should have the same right to book a room especially since renting is allowed. What has been pointed out by more than myself is that what you outlined is a very specific booking criteria and leaves out a lot of other usage that includes friends and family. I'd guess you wouldn't argue against an owner booking a room for themselves, one for their parents - ie, "the grandparents" and one for their adult children who also might have children of their own, but your outline wouldn't allow that. So then what scenarios do you allow? That's why it's easiest to just recognize and realize that an owner is booking the room and why or for whom really doesn't matter.

DVC is pretty up front in their documents. Trading may not continue. Resorts may be removed from the system. Don't buy with the thought xxx will continue in the future and so on.

About the only thing guaranteed with DVC is that you will have a priority window of at least 1 month to book at your home resort. And then you might possibly be competing with every other owner for that date. If that doesn't work for you then there are other options to visit Disney. Staying with DVC it's buying a fixed week at one of the resort that offers them although that does nothing for 7 months. The other thing is pay cash to stay in a Disney room - ie, "rent" a room from them.

But I also have differing thoughts that renting is to be blamed for the tightening 7 month window and have posted that before. It's the popular thing to blame though.
 
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