Cases rising or dropping by you?

gotomu212 · Oct 22, 2020

mrs. magoo said:
Colleges can get a handle on it and many have. The bigger issue to me is the blame game. We are quick to blame someone who tests positive. I don't understand the thinking that someone got sick because they were doing something wrong. I have never blamed someone for getting the stomach bug or the flu why are we so harsh with Covid?

I think there are matters of degrees. Blaming people who get sick from engaging in risky behavior isn’t new- the STD and HIV/AIDS patients were usually blamed for not practicing safe sex.

While I don’t agree with blaming everyone that gets sick from CoVid, I am angry with the people who are engaging in known risky behaviors and ignoring safe medical protocols and then bring positive infections back to essential workers. We had a bunch of teens that flouted local rules, held a 300 person party, and then their school had 5 teachers end up with positive cases. I don’t blame those teachers at all, but I’m pretty ticked that the irresponsible kids landed people in the hospital.

Farro · Oct 22, 2020

Dan Murphy said:
But, it was only a few weeks ago we were in the low 3's.

I know. But we will get there again! So far (fingers crossed) our hospitalizations are half that of when we saw these kinds of positive numbers. I dread our hospitalizations rising because I don't want them to pause elective surgeries again...

Hopefully we turn the corner over next month or so and hopefully our percentage rate drops even lower than before!

Dan Murphy · Oct 22, 2020

Farro said:
I know. But we will get there again!

For sure.

Mackenzie Click-Mickelson · Oct 22, 2020

gotomu212 said:
I think there are matters of degrees. Blaming people who get sick from engaging in risky behavior isn’t new- the STD and HIV/AIDS patients were usually blamed for not practicing safe sex.

While I don’t agree with blaming everyone that gets sick from CoVid, I am angry with the people who are engaging in known risky behaviors and ignoring safe medical protocols and then bring positive infections back to essential workers. We had a bunch of teens that flouted local rules, held a 300 person party, and then their school had 5 teachers end up with positive cases. I don’t blame those teachers at all, but I’m pretty ticked that the irresponsible kids landed people in the hospital.

That's the tricky thing though. Engaging in risky behavior according to risk level analysis with COVID does not inherently mean you will get COVID, just as not engaging in risky behavior according to risk level analysis with COVID inherently mean you won't get COVID. Everything is about reducing your likelihood of being exposed to it and with respects to masks and distance reducing the likelihood of high viral volume. Nothing is about not getting it at all.

I think people should if possible engage in as low risky behavior and if engaging in higher risk behavior take as much precautions as possible but I do not go further than that. Some people are going farther than that.

mrs. magoo · Oct 22, 2020

RamblingMad said:
What we know is that cases went up when universities opened. Most of the people testing positive now are younger than they were in the Spring. The reality is that these outbreaks at universities will spread back to the kids' home towns when they return for the holidays. Then, we'll see ICUs fill up as it spreads to the parents and grandparents.

Opening school for in class is a terrible decision. I get that people want child care for their young kids. I don't get why universities have to open.

Now, add to this that it's colder out. People will get together indoors, and it will spread faster. We know that indoor gatherings are far worse than outdoor gatherings for spread.

I wouldn't want to live in the midwest right now.

You do understand how many people depend on colleges for their employment. Colleges employ many people from food workers, cleaners, secretaries and administration. In my city one of the universities is the largest employers. If the college does not open then you have many people who will not be employed.

mrs. magoo · Oct 22, 2020

robinb said:
College students have to step up and follow the rules for the safety of the entire student population. If they can't follow the rules then they should face the consequences. At my DD's college the rules are carefully set out for them and they sign that they agree to them. They are given multiple warnings before they are brought up for disciplinary action. One parent on the parent's FB group complained how unfair it was that her daughter received a warning because she and her roommate had a "movie night" in their dorm room with "only" 2 other students. The rule at the time was that no one other than the roommates could be in the room!

There is no shame or blame for positive students. Just clear rules and clear enforcement. They are testing 1600+ students and staff per day and the positivity rate is less than 2%.

Overall college students have stepped up to the challenge but they continue to be shamed and blamed for getting sick. And there is no praise for kids who are following the rules. Schools need to praise kids for doing the right thing and stop punishing kids.

mrs. magoo · Oct 22, 2020

gotomu212 said:
I think there are matters of degrees. Blaming people who get sick from engaging in risky behavior isn’t new- the STD and HIV/AIDS patients were usually blamed for not practicing safe sex.

While I don’t agree with blaming everyone that gets sick from CoVid, I am angry with the people who are engaging in known risky behaviors and ignoring safe medical protocols and then bring positive infections back to essential workers. We had a bunch of teens that flouted local rules, held a 300 person party, and then their school had 5 teachers end up with positive cases. I don’t blame those teachers at all, but I’m pretty ticked that the irresponsible kids landed people in the hospital.

This is a slippery slope. I don't blame anyone or shame anyone who gets sick. I would never place blame on these kids. My daughter is student teaching and was told if the school got a positive case it would be on her head. I do not understand that thinking. How do know those teachers did not go out to eat somewhere or had a get together with others. That's the thing with this it is next to impossible to contact trace with a 14 day incubation. How many people do you come into contact with during 2 weeks? Now the CDC is saying less time can still lead to exposure.

godisney14 · Oct 22, 2020

mrs. magoo said:
This is a slippery slope. I don't blame anyone or shame anyone who gets sick. I would never place blame on these kids. My daughter is student teaching and was told if the school got a positive case it would be on her head. I do not understand that thinking. How do know those teachers did not go out to eat somewhere or had a get together with others. That's the thing with this it is next to impossible to contact trace with a 14 day incubation. How many people do you come into contact with during 2 weeks? Now the CDC is saying less time can still lead to exposure.

If clusters of students are getting sick, then it’s easier to say that the index is likely a student. If there’s only a couple students getting sick and a teacher is sick as well, then it is difficult to say. There should be no automatic blaming of teachers and students. The cases we’re hearing of so far are clusters of students, which would lead one to believe the likeliest is a student index.

Yes, given the way that the US conducts contact tracing. The way US does contact tracing breaks down further and becomes fairly useless in times of rapid increase in case loads. You can’t manually trace an exponential rise.

Mackenzie Click-Mickelson · Oct 22, 2020

mrs. magoo said:
Now the CDC is saying less time can still lead to exposure.

If you're talking about the Vermont (I believe that's where it was) corrections facility what they were reviewing is the officer didn't spend more than 15 mins at one time with the inmates who were getting tested. It was multiple interactions. Originally close contact was 15 mins or more at one time.

The exact wording is: "Though the correctional officer never spent 15 minutes straight close to the infected inmates, he had multiple brief encounters with them. Specifically, during his 8-hour shift, the officer had 22 brief encounters (between 10 and 60 seconds each) with the inmates, totaling 17 minutes of cumulative exposure."

They've updated close contact to be "someone who was within 6 feet of an infected person for a cumulative total of 15 minutes or more over a 24-hour period" So it's not necessarily less time but rather this concept that if you're an individual around the same person who is positive multiple times throughout a time period (right now 24 hours) you could still be exposed to the virus even though each interaction was less than 15 mins.

robinb · Oct 22, 2020

mrs. magoo said:
Overall college students have stepped up to the challenge but they continue to be shamed and blamed for getting sick. And there is no praise for kids who are following the rules. Schools need to praise kids for doing the right thing and stop punishing kids.

What schools do you kids go to? It's terrible if they are blaming and shaming the students. Thank goodness my DD's school is supportive.

RamblingMad · Oct 22, 2020

mrs. magoo said:
You do understand how many people depend on colleges for their employment. Colleges employ many people from food workers, cleaners, secretaries and administration. In my city one of the universities is the largest employers. If the college does not open then you have many people who will not be employed.

This is why we need better economic safety nets in this country. The UKs unemployment rate is half ours. And they receive 2/3rds of their pay. We can do a lot better. We shouldn't sacrifice people to COVID because we're too cheap to have higher unemployment insurance.

mom2rtk · Oct 22, 2020

RamblingMad said:
What we know is that cases went up when universities opened. Most of the people testing positive now are younger than they were in the Spring. The reality is that these outbreaks at universities will spread back to the kids' home towns when they return for the holidays. Then, we'll see ICUs fill up as it spreads to the parents and grandparents.

Opening school for in class is a terrible decision. I get that people want child care for their young kids. I don't get why universities have to open.

Now, add to this that it's colder out. People will get together indoors, and it will spread faster. We know that indoor gatherings are far worse than outdoor gatherings for spread.

I wouldn't want to live in the midwest right now.

NO, it's not just about child care. It's about the quality of education kids are getting. It's about what is quickly becoming a lost year in their education. We'll suffer the effects of this as a society for years to come.

RamblingMad said:
This is why we need better economic safety nets in this country. The UKs unemployment rate is half ours. And they receive 2/3rds of their pay. We can do a lot better. We shouldn't sacrifice people to COVID because we're too cheap to have higher unemployment insurance.

Yes, people keep going back to that. But it's an academic discussion at this point. Our safety nets are what they are at this point. It's really nice for the ones who can sit at home in their jammies working online and watching Netflix while the paycheck keeps showing up and you have full benefits. But that's not reality for many people. You just can't shut everything down for a year or more. There will be nothing left to go back to.

RamblingMad · Oct 22, 2020

mom2rtk said:
Yes, people keep going back to that. But it's an academic discussion at this point. Our safety nets are what they are at this point. It's really nice for the ones who can sit at home in their jammies working online and watching Netflix while the pay check keeps showing up and you have full benefits. But that's not reality for many people. You just can't shut everything down for a year or more. There will be nothing left to go back to.

We probably won't get a vaccine until next summer. Parts of the country are surging with COVID cases. It's likely we'll see isolated shutdowns throughout the country. This is our reality during a pandemic. We're going to have to live with somethings not being around when this is all over.

mom2rtk · Oct 22, 2020

RamblingMad said:
We probably won't get a vaccine until next summer. Parts of the country are surging with COVID cases. It's likely we'll see isolated shutdowns throughout the country. This is our reality during a pandemic. We're going to have to live with somethings not being around when this is all over.

By "things" I assume you mean the livelihood and health insurance for many thousands of people. This isn't about opening fun things for people to do. This is about allowing people to support themselves and their families.

ohiomom28 · Oct 22, 2020

Spreading like wildfire

Pyotr · Oct 22, 2020

Moliphino said:
That's not good for people traveling to states that require a negative test within 72 hours - most of those specify that it must be a PCR test.

I believe you can still get one per request or if you are showing symptoms.

tarheelmjfan · Oct 23, 2020

DisneyJamieCA said:
Overall I agree with you and looking at other states, I can see where you’re coming from. I will say that not all of the decisions in his tiered system, especially things prohibited under purple, are backed by science (and I’m not talking about Disneyland).

I understand your frustration, but at least he's trying to save lives. That's not the case for all of us.

mrs. magoo · Oct 23, 2020

robinb said:
What schools do you kids go to? It's terrible if they are blaming and shaming the students. Thank goodness my DD's school is supportive.

It is not the school that is blaming and shaming kids, it is society as a whole. I can't tell you the number of threads I have read about kids doing this and kids doing that and they are the reason why the virus is spreading. There are many reasons why the virus is spreading and we need to find a way to cope with it and live with it until we have better therapeutics or vaccine or it mutates. My point is we need to stop being so unkind to each other and truly try walking in someone else's shoes. I am teaching special education students in a fully remote setting. It is going terribly for 75% of the kids. Yesterday my 9th period class was a disaster, the internet for the kids kept kicking them out and then I need to readmit them only to have them kicked out again. I can not meet their accommodations in a remote setting. It is not for a lack of trying on both the kids and my part but this is a nightmare. These kids are regressing in their social skills and academic skills. I don't have answers but I know that this is not working.

piglet1979 · Oct 23, 2020

mom2rtk said:
NO, it's not just about child care. It's about the quality of education kids are getting. It's about what is quickly becoming a lost year in their education. We'll suffer the effects of this as a society for years to come.

I disagree with this. In our district they are doing a great job with teaching the kids online and in school. We had an option. We choose the fully remote for our 8th and 9th grader. I was very worried about my 9th grader as he is taking all honor classes and this is the first year of his 4 year Bio-Med class. He is learning as much as he would in school. The teacher is teaching to the students in school and on line. There are only about 12 kids in class on a given day since we are hybrid for the parents who decided to send them. He is even doing his experiments at home. There was a blood splatter experiments that they did in Bio-Med and he found a recipe for fake blood to do the experiment at home. DD is doing great at home to and her grades are better then when she was in school. She gets wrapped up with all the drama that happens at school.

I know not all kids will do great in this system but I don't think it will be a lost year either.

JimMIA · Oct 23, 2020

RamblingMad said:
We probably won't get a vaccine until next summer. Parts of the country are surging with COVID cases. It's likely we'll see isolated shutdowns throughout the country. This is our reality during a pandemic. We're going to have to live with somethings not being around when this is all over.

I think we will have a vaccine before the end of the year.

The information I've seen on vaccine availability is that it will not be available to every single person in the US until summer 2021. But that's because vaccine distribution will be prioritized for those who need it most -- as it should be. It will be widely available to frontline healthcare workers, first responders, and our most vulnerable populations much sooner than summer.

Cases rising or dropping by you?

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