Add on Riviera or wait for Reflections??

[poohbear12880]

We are seriously considering adding on to Riviera through Disney but I’m not sure if we should wait for Reflections. What do you think?? Do you think the cost per point for Reflections will be less than Riviera? Right now they’re telling us Riviera is 188 a point. Was it last when it was initially being sold? Do you think the demand for Riviera will be very high and impossible to get up at seven months? Anything you could let me know would be helpful thank you

 

[crvetter]

Reflections is 2022 projected opening so it is a bit down the line. Likely at that point Riviera still might be for sale at the same time. To your point on pricing new resorts typically always have been higher in price than the initial sale price for the prior resort. So I would expect Reflections to be above 188 when it goes for sale (with Riviera being equal in price perhaps more if near sold out).

As for demand there are only about 25% of the rooms standard view. So if you desire those you will need to have home resort priority for sure. As for unit size if interested in 1 beds the 7 month window (if prior resort patterns are followed) should be more available than the others. The tower studio is unlikely to be available to anyone but those that own Riviera.

 

[dez1978]

Will Reflections have the same stupid resale restrictions?

 

[crvetter]

Personally if Reflections doesn't have the restrictions it will likely mean Riviera had it's restrictions lifted. At this point you should assume that the restrictions will continue to apply to all new resorts coming online, which also the guidance that DVC is giving.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Do you think the cost per point for Reflections will be less than Riviera?

No. Same or higher. Also, room costs will be on similar levels (points per night), and Reflections is suppsoed to have Stupid Cabins.

Will Reflections have the same stupid resale restrictions?

Yes.

 

[Sanwich]

This has already been covered a bit, but just to re-emphasize:

Keep in mind that Reflections will be suffering from a number of cumulative issues, even more than Riviera has. Imagine the resale restrictions of RIV combined with the cabins and availability issues of CCV. The point costs per night are guaranteed to be much higher than neighboring CCV and BRV as well.

On a personal note, I was actually looking forward to Reflections and considering a purchase there (before all the additional info was released), however after realizing what a perfect storm of complications this resort will be, there is no way I’d buy there. Even with CCV’s problems, I’d be more inclined to buy at either CCV or BRV in that area over Reflections (need to figure out a good abbreviation for that place, lol).

 

[RaymOOOnd]

This has already been covered a bit, but just to re-emphasize:

Keep in mind that Reflections will be suffering from a number of cumulative issues, even more than Riviera has. Imagine the resale restrictions of RIV combined with the cabins and availability issues of CCV. The point costs per night are guaranteed to be much higher than neighboring CCV and BRV as well.

On a personal note, I was actually looking forward to Reflections and considering a purchase there (before all the additional info was released), however after realizing what a perfect storm of complications this resort will be, there is no way I’d buy there. Even with CCV’s problems, I’d be more inclined to buy at either CCV or BRV in that area over Reflections (need to figure out a good abbreviation for that place, lol).

RFLXNS

 

[DisneyCowgirl]

Reflections (need to figure out a good abbreviation for that place, lol).

REHAB

 

[SG131]

This has already been covered a bit, but just to re-emphasize:

Keep in mind that Reflections will be suffering from a number of cumulative issues, even more than Riviera has. Imagine the resale restrictions of RIV combined with the cabins and availability issues of CCV. The point costs per night are guaranteed to be much higher than neighboring CCV and BRV as well.

On a personal note, I was actually looking forward to Reflections and considering a purchase there (before all the additional info was released), however after realizing what a perfect storm of complications this resort will be, there is no way I’d buy there. Even with CCV’s problems, I’d be more inclined to buy at either CCV or BRV in that area over Reflections (need to figure out a good abbreviation for that place, lol).

Same here. At some point I wouldn't mind adding on direct and reflections looked great and I like the location. But with the cabins AND the resale restrictions, there is no way.

 

[Sandisw]

In terms of availability I think it’s an unknown until there are more resale contracts. Those owners will only be allowed to book at RIV which will impact what is left for others to book at 7 months...and we are assuming it will stay at 7 months.

I don’t think I’d buy I to either unless I really loved them because I wouldn’t pay Disney prices and only buy resale market which meant those points would only be good there.

I think if you want and like RIV I would buy there.

 

[mjlash22]

Neither are open yet, and not a lot of info on Reflections yet. Really, IMO, you're probably looking at higher dues for Riviera but better availability vs lower dues for Reflections but worse availability. My vote would be for Riviera.

 

[jerseyduke]

On a personal note, I was actually looking forward to Reflections and considering a purchase there (before all the additional info was released), however after realizing what a perfect storm of complications this resort will be, there is no way I’d buy there.

I am unaware of these complications, would you share them with me?
I know it has cabins, and possible(likely?) resale restrictions. but are there others?

 

[Sanwich]

I am unaware of these complications, would you share them with me?
I know it has cabins, and possible(likely?) resale restrictions. but are there others?

Oh sorry, I didn’t mean to give the wrong impression. The complications I was referring to are basically the combined effects of the things that have already been mentioned:

- At the very least, the resale restrictions (which have been confirmed by Disney for this resort, I believe) would lead to low resale values if an unexpected need to sell arises.

- The resale restrictions will also, over time, undoubtedly have some kind of negative effect on room availability. Now, this effect may not be as bad as a lot of people think, but the increased demand is going to be there to some degree.

- One major unknown (I think?) is how many units at Reflections will actually belong to DVC, since it will also be a regular hotel. If the pool of DVC rooms is relatively small, that could also be an issue... but we don’t really know yet. Or at least I don’t know, haha.

- And then of course the cabins, which just take the problems listed above and make them worse, since again you will have lots of owners competing for less expensive non-cabin rooms. Add to that the “mini” studios as well... which are likely going to be hyped for sales, but also impossible to actually book due to demand.

 

[crvetter]

- One major unknown (I think?) is how many units at Reflections will actually belong to DVC, since it will also be a regular hotel. If the pool of DVC rooms is relatively small, that could also be an issue... but we don’t really know yet. Or at least I don’t know, haha.

If what Disney is telling their investors in the annual reports anything remotely true then Riviera and Reflections together are to bring online 550 units. Which means 341 belong to Riviera so it can be expected about 200 belong to Reflections (out of the 900 rooms they claim the hotel will have).

Also I'm not sure the size of the resort has much of an impact on availability to those that own there, but it certainly will for at the 7 month mark. The availability impact for the home resort advantage has much more to do with room mix than anything if I were to guess.

DVCNews does a pretty decent job of tracking monthly sales @wdrl I believe is the one that does all the tracking. This has a high level of detail from the number of points to the number of contracts and for which resorts.

I just wish DVCNews would consolidate it all to a single spreadsheet we could view but you can click through the pages and find info going pretty far back.

https://www.dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-program/financial/news-34867
As an aside I went and looked at the WDC annual reports to see if they provide info, turns out very little but some interesting things were found. For instance it says about 550 rooms will be brought on board with Riviera and Reflections. So that means Reflections (about 200) will be smaller than Riviera (341 rooms) which might also explain their desire to add the high point units (cabins or whatever they call them over there). It also says that Disney hotel rooms (domestic) were at 88% capacity for 2018. It does also say the margins on DVC builds is double digits so very profitable for the company, as reported in 2008, with the intention of DVC to provide a free cash flow for investment back into the company's other segments or divisions within a segment.

Correct it is mixed use and the statement was that 550 DVC units would be brought online with Reflections and Riviera. In total the hotel is about 900 hotel rooms and DVC units.

Sorry my post was a bit ambiguous now that I reread it.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

so it can be expected about 200 belong to Reflections (out of the 900 rooms they claim the hotel will have).

Figure 10% cabins, and availability will be dreadful.

 

[crvetter]

Figure 10% cabins, and availability will be dreadful.

Well so far the leaked plans don't call for nearly as many cabins at CCV from what I could tell. Though the unique distinct shapes from those on each side of the resort seem different in that there will be multiple types even. Until there is more news anything is purely speculative I suppose, but 10% would seem to be consistent with with past behavior.

 

[ezbfields]

We are seriously considering adding on to Riviera through Disney but I’m not sure if we should wait for Reflections. What do you think?? Do you think the cost per point for Reflections will be less than Riviera? Right now they’re telling us Riviera is 188 a point. Was it last when it was initially being sold? Do you think the demand for Riviera will be very high and impossible to get up at seven months? Anything you could let me know would be helpful thank you

I just booked right at the 7 month mark. With it just launching, it may become more difficult in time. Will be interested to see how it is received, and how my family enjoys it : )

 

[Katie2]

The drawings for Reflections are really, really enticing. Seems like Disney is back to designing hotels with character, as opposed to a glorified Hyatt.

 

[MariaGrace39]

We just bought Riviera - meaning I maybe bias...
After looking at the concept drawings for Reflections, I'm not really impressed. The Riviera rooms were stunning during the tour and the soaking tub... I'm so excited! Between that and the proximity to Epcot - it won for me. 5 min Gondola ride to the international gateway and I can have breakfast in France. Sold

 

[_auroraborealis_]

The Riviera rooms were stunning during the tour and the soaking tub...

DYK: they removed jetted tubs in several resorts when they did a full refurb?

Just because Riviera has a soaking tub now doesn't mean they don't pull it in 14 years...

(People were angry.)