Creative ideas to offset college tuition?

[bdiddy]

My plan is to get a job at a local state school where DH and I graduated from. It's a pretty good school that has programs in both fields our kids are interested in. It's pretty hard to get a job there since free tuition is certainly a big draw and it's really competitive! But I just finished up a 9 month temp job there and have hopefully gotten my foot in the door.

DH and I both graduated from college 20 yrs ago in May with just shy of $50k between the two of us. We paid back $600 for 10 years and it was horrible! It really crippled us for a long time and anything I can do to alleviate that debt from my kids futures, I'll do it. I don't care if I have to be a janitor. The tuition has more than doubled so I can't even imagine what it will be for them if they have to cover most on their own. When DH and I went it was $8k for a year to live in the dorm and for classes and it was $12k for DH since he was paying out-of-state. Now it's $22k for classes/dorm for in-state and $30k for out-of-state. So in 20 yrs, it's more than doubles. Both of my kids are super smart and get good grades but I feel like you just can't count on scholarships to cover it all. I was a stay-at-home mom for years and have since done various part-time work but if I have to work somewhere - why not there? My oldest is about to finish up 9th grade so luckily I still have plenty of time to try to get in full-time. Fingers crossed!

 

[Mrs. Bradbury]

I work at one of our state's flagship universities and our state offers "free tuition" through state lottery funds. However, there have been limitations placed on what it will pay (only tuition, only for a specific number of hours, and no longer 100% these days no matter your GPA) on one end and the universities have added fee upon fee upon fee, as well as required courses that are of questionable value. Today's cost of attendance is insane. I also have had 2 of my 3 kids in college (though not the one I work at); it feels like you've been through an eggbeater when it's all said and done. It's brutal.

I'm not sure if it's been determined or if someone mentioned it just as an example, that your son wants to go to private art school? For scientific illustration? I happen to have a good relationship with a department chair in our art school and was discussing my husband's niece, who did go to private art school for scientific illustration in NYC. I was a little surprised that she did not pursue scientific illustration after she graduated, because she is really, really, really good. He said, "If she was given the impression that she could work in the field of scientific illustration with only a 4-year degree, she was mislead." All this to say, find out what his job prospects should be at the end of 4 years after you've sunk your retirement home earnings into his education. It may just be the beginning.

And I say this as someone who does believe a family should help a student get through college.

 

[msmayor]

Respectfully, I suspect your daughter's friend isn't a particularly good student -- or isn't a particularly good long-term planner.

Respectfully, you would be very wrong. Her family and financial situation is such that she has been doing the best she can to achieve her goal.

A quick google search tells me: #2 Savannah College of Art and Design (SCAD). Georgia’s private design school graduates 66% of its students. A similar amount get financial aid. Graduates can expect a 30 year ROI of negative $242,000.

Notice that said NEGATIVE $242,000. Which means over the course of 30 years, the average SCAD grad has $242,000 LESS than he would've had if he had never attended college. I know several students who've attended, and I know that the place is rife with financial issues. Of the students I know personally who've graduated from SCAD, one is working as an event planner (her degree is graphic design, which is often described as I-want-to-work-in-art-but-I-also-want-to-eat), one is working behind the scenes with an HGTV-type show in Canada (she studied furniture design), and one is still unemployed two years after graduation (her degree is animation).

Everyone's mileage may vary...at ANY school. I know graduates with degrees in other majors who also struggle - it boils down to the effort one puts forth to follow the major they've chosen.

My daughter, a SCAD graduate, has been working in her field since a couple weeks after graduation. She is fully supporting herself, and has been since six months after graduation. She used the tools she learned at SCAD to turn her art into a profitable career and has already earned four times the 'investment' six years after graduation. The real world experience SCAD gave her as opposed to other schools' offerings were very valuable to her.

You are certainly entitled to your viewpoint, but there are many success stories out there. It comes down to effort.

 

[arminnie]

Today, for even a regular state school, it is impossible to pay your own way as a teen out of high school, even if you've been saving every penny since birth. People who say this have no idea what the current cost of higher education is now.

Yes - it is often impossible to work and pay for going to school full time. But if someone really wants an education there are still ways to do it. My cousin was a single mother who had never gone to college a day. She worked full time, supported her daughter with no child support and took courses as she could. She got that degree. So proud of her efforts. Over the years I've seen many others do this.

People tend to confuse "going to college" - having the full college experience - with getting an education.

 

[Nebraska_Disney]

I think people need to separate the various aspects of college costs too. Some are static and you can't change (tuition, fees, books, etc) and some are very flexible (housing, food, entertainment, etc). When we started looking at college costs about a year ago for our HS son, we really focused on the "static" as those were not negotiable or with many options, so you have 30-35 hours of credits per year with the associated fees and books to get the degree you want. That is the part that is the same for anyone in college getting some type of degree. Housing, food, travel, entertainment all have options. The most pricey is living on campus and being on the university meal plan. This is something we thought a lot about and how to cut those costs. Some places require students to live on campus for their first year, some do not. Looking into roommates, being off campus, is a great way to cut into college costs as you are trading the convenience of being on campus (which you pay for) to saving money and hopefully having less debt in the end. You have to be willing to exhaust all options if you really want something, especially if you are footing the bill !

My wife and I shared an apartment off campus during undergrad. We were not married yet (gasp!) but the cost for both of us to live there and commute to campus saved us thousands. We also worked 20-30 hours a week and closer to 40 hours a week when we were seniors. My wife graduated in 4 years and was on the Dean's list 4 times during that time while I graduated and went on to grad school. Sure, we missed out on some of the social aspects of being on campus and we had to deal with commuting and parking, but in the end, we saved a lot of money. We graduated with about $30 K in loans, as we were putting ourselves through school with no help and even after we got married, (our last year of school) we did not get any Pell or grant money.

I kinda relate it to car shopping with a teenager. They want to have the sports car because it has always been a dream to have that Mustang, but Mom and Dad (footing the bill) know the Civic is going to be better off in the long run and save money. Be sensible about these things as being 23-24 years old with a mountain of debt and no job prospects is not a great way to start an adult life.

 

[MrsPete]

Respectfully, you would be very wrong. Her family and financial situation is such that she has been doing the best she can to achieve her goal.

You know her, but I still question the decade-long college stint as efficient; for example, a community college near us has a very highly-rated graphic design program that is supposed to be better than SCAD's (not that every art student is looking for that particular program).

You are certainly entitled to your viewpoint, but there are many success stories out there. It comes down to effort.

Good for her -- in every program you'll find people who did well /those who didn't do well -- and, yes, effort is a big part of it. Regardless, it's a solid fact that SCAD keeps showing up on lists of schools that provide a poor return for the investment.

People tend to confuse "going to college" - having the full college experience - with getting an education.

That's well said. LOTS of my students are very excited about "the college experience" -- dorms, football games, pizza with buddies, freedom -- and those things are great, but the real goal is to have an education when you're done. Those other things are fun, if you can afford them, but I'd never suggest that anyone "sell a part of his or her future" by taking out loans for "the college experience".

The most pricey is living on campus and being on the university meal plan.

I totally agree with the idea of focusing on the things you CAN do less expensively /not stressing about the non-negotiables ... but living off campus isn't cheaper than a dorm room. Not when you consider all the extras that come with it: paying for that apartment year round, furnishing that apartment (even with hand-me-downs, it adds up), and all the little extras that come with an apartment. My youngest just "failed to make lottery" for next fall, so we've been apartment shopping /starting to stock her up for things she'll need. I estimate that -- even making all the right budget choices -- it's going to cost about 20-25% MORE than the dorm. Oh, sure, if you look at the monthly "rent", the dorm is more expensive -- but that's apples and oranges.

If you want to argue that an apartment is a better value, you might be right. My youngest is going to have her own bedroom and will share a bath with one roommate instead of all the girls on the hall. It'll be more quiet, and she'll not have to adhere to the dining hall's schedule. Those are intangibles that may matter a great deal to some people. But dollar-for-dollar, it's simply not cheaper. Not here anyway.

 

[kymom99]

You know her, but I still question the decade-long college stint as efficient; for example, a community college near us has a very highly-rated graphic design program that is supposed to be better than SCAD's (not that every art student is looking for that particular program).
Good for her -- in every program you'll find people who did well /those who didn't do well -- and, yes, effort is a big part of it. Regardless, it's a solid fact that SCAD keeps showing up on lists of schools that provide a poor return for the investment.
That's well said. LOTS of my students are very excited about "the college experience" -- dorms, football games, pizza with buddies, freedom -- and those things are great, but the real goal is to have an education when you're done. Those other things are fun, if you can afford them, but I'd never suggest that anyone "sell a part of his or her future" by taking out loans for "the college experience".
I totally agree with the idea of focusing on the things you CAN do less expensively /not stressing about the non-negotiables ... but living off campus isn't cheaper than a dorm room. Not when you consider all the extras that come with it: paying for that apartment year round, furnishing that apartment (even with hand-me-downs, it adds up), and all the little extras that come with an apartment. My youngest just "failed to make lottery" for next fall, so we've been apartment shopping /starting to stock her up for things she'll need. I estimate that -- even making all the right budget choices -- it's going to cost about 20-25% MORE than the dorm. Oh, sure, if you look at the monthly "rent", the dorm is more expensive -- but that's apples and oranges.

If you want to argue that an apartment is a better value, you might be right. My youngest is going to have her own bedroom and will share a bath with one roommate instead of all the girls on the hall. It'll be more quiet, and she'll not have to adhere to the dining hall's schedule. Those are intangibles that may matter a great deal to some people. But dollar-for-dollar, it's simply not cheaper. Not here anyway.

You made excellent points about the apartment/dorm comparison. I was going to say most of the same things. We are weighing out the benefits of both right now. I will add, in favor of the dorms, the ability to change rooms mid year if there are problems with a roommate that are unsuccessfully resolved. Also, you only pay per semester, so it’s easy to make changes mid year. With an apartment there are yearly leases to adhere to. If you are in an apartment with a roommate, there are chances the other person or persons will fail to pay their share, or could drop out, leaving you on the hook for all the payments.
I also feel that living on campus is generally safer, at least at my son’s school. There are people around that look out for the students. Not to mention, his school provides free internet and laundry, which are necessities.

 

[CT Yankee]

I have not read every post in this thread, so apologies if I am repeating something that was already posted, but here it goes: Does the college offer a payment plan? We do this for the portion of our daughter's cost of attendance that is not covered by her scholarship. The balance is spread out over monthly payments and there is a small administrative fee that is charged to set up the payment. A payment plan does not make it any less expensive, it just eliminates the need to write a five figure check every semester. This has allowed us to cash flow the cost and so far (knock on wood) we have been able to manage. We have drawn on her 529 account for some of the payments and the payments can be made directly to the school, or the amount I request can be deposited into my checking account and it make the payment to the school online.

Also - if you have not already exhausted all appeals with the college for more aid, I would suggest appealing to them again. The daughter of a colleague of mine went to SCAD and she was able to get some more grants after making another request for help. The worst they can say is no. BTW, her daughter now does animation work for Amazon studios....I had no idea they had an animation operation there but she's gainfully employed!

Good luck and congrats!

 

[arminnie]

In many places a “Gap Year” is common. This could be used to establish residency in another state to be able to get in state residency and to save money.

For those that say that there are no colleges near them - their child could relocate. Some schools have excellent job opportunities nearby.

The University of Arkansas is close to Walmart corporate headquarters. Students can often work as many hours as they want because there are opportunities available 24/7. Many get promotions when they work hard and are reliable.

When I was in college a zillion years ago I took 21 hours a semester and worked at least 20 hours a week - and I graduated Phi Beta Kappa. Because that’s what I needed to do.

 

[Buzzsgramma]

Our daughter worked at a college where her son and daughter went to and graduated from...Later she worked at another college the youngest daughter went to and is graduating from in Dec 2019....This helped in all aspects of their college years...plus whatever they had saved over the years to help pay expenses......very few loans ...the first 2 have no debt the last child has some...

 

[Nebraska_Disney]

You made excellent points about the apartment/dorm comparison. I was going to say most of the same things. We are weighing out the benefits of both right now. I will add, in favor of the dorms, the ability to change rooms mid year if there are problems with a roommate that are unsuccessfully resolved. Also, you only pay per semester, so it’s easy to make changes mid year. With an apartment there are yearly leases to adhere to. If you are in an apartment with a roommate, there are chances the other person or persons will fail to pay their share, or could drop out, leaving you on the hook for all the payments.
I also feel that living on campus is generally safer, at least at my son’s school. There are people around that look out for the students. Not to mention, his school provides free internet and laundry, which are necessities.

I guess it depends where you live and if you are able to save money by living off campus. In Lincoln, NE it is most definitely cheaper off campus.

 

[msmayor]

You know her, but I still question the decade-long college stint as efficient; for example, a community college near us has a very highly-rated graphic design program that is supposed to be better than SCAD's (not that every art student is looking for that particular program).

It was not my daughter the SCAD student who took 10 years...it's a dear friend who is an English Major planning to teach abroad someday. When one is young, struggling to pay for a car to get back and forth to work and school with few financial resources her family can offer, she paid for school the best way she knew how. Working full time at a job that paid about $9/hour after taxes doesn't leave much to cover expenses, and working 35 hours a week doesn't leave the time needed for full-time attendance. When you're taking two courses, or 6 credits a semester, it's going to take 20 semesters or 10 years for the degree. It may not be efficient but I applaud her conviction to stick with it.

I don't know the community college you speak of, but I would automatically disagree with any two-year community program being 'better' than four years of study, and especially compared to SCAD's program. Not sure a community college can offer they type of real-world experience SCAD offers, with faculty required to be current in their field and a number of experiential classes designed to not only teach art production, but how to create the career. The single-greatest spend of tuition dollars was the Disney Cooperative Class offered by SCAD, which I described in another thread...

Throughout all four of her years there, classes refined and perfected the foundation skills every artist needs and taught her high-level graphic design skills. Many, many projects were set up specifically to give students real-world experience including meeting with clients, preparing sketches and producing final products. She produced actual product for both grades and local businesses with the highlight being the Disney Cooperative during her senior year. A team of 16 students drove to Disney for an intensive session with Imagineers to get the background of an actual feature Disney was contemplating. The team included designers, architects, production students and others and they had to work together to create their vision for Disney and prepare all the materials for the pitch, then actually stand in front of the Disney Imagineers to present. This was experience one would never expect to gain in a classroom but was a huge positive step toward preparing her for a career.

I won't say the program at CC is not useful - it may very well create value and the ability to gain employment doing graphic design. Based on the coursework in a four-year program though, I would say the CC graphic designer is likely full of far more raw talent and ability to translate that into a career arc. Again, it comes down to drive and passion.

 

[mjkacmom]

You know her, but I still question the decade-long college stint as efficient; for example, a community college near us has a very highly-rated graphic design program that is supposed to be better than SCAD's (not that every art student is looking for that particular program).
Good for her -- in every program you'll find people who did well /those who didn't do well -- and, yes, effort is a big part of it. Regardless, it's a solid fact that SCAD keeps showing up on lists of schools that provide a poor return for the investment.
That's well said. LOTS of my students are very excited about "the college experience" -- dorms, football games, pizza with buddies, freedom -- and those things are great, but the real goal is to have an education when you're done. Those other things are fun, if you can afford them, but I'd never suggest that anyone "sell a part of his or her future" by taking out loans for "the college experience".
I totally agree with the idea of focusing on the things you CAN do less expensively /not stressing about the non-negotiables ... but living off campus isn't cheaper than a dorm room. Not when you consider all the extras that come with it: paying for that apartment year round, furnishing that apartment (even with hand-me-downs, it adds up), and all the little extras that come with an apartment. My youngest just "failed to make lottery" for next fall, so we've been apartment shopping /starting to stock her up for things she'll need. I estimate that -- even making all the right budget choices -- it's going to cost about 20-25% MORE than the dorm. Oh, sure, if you look at the monthly "rent", the dorm is more expensive -- but that's apples and oranges.

If you want to argue that an apartment is a better value, you might be right. My youngest is going to have her own bedroom and will share a bath with one roommate instead of all the girls on the hall. It'll be more quiet, and she'll not have to adhere to the dining hall's schedule. Those are intangibles that may matter a great deal to some people. But dollar-for-dollar, it's simply not cheaper. Not here anyway.

Housing is VERY expensive here, but it’s still cheaper to live off campus. Room and board is about $14,000 at ds’s school, he is paying $500 to live with 9 other guys in a house (tiny basement room). He dies have to pay monthly rent, but eats ramen and peanut butter sandwiches. Dd22 did the same for about $600 a month with 6 roommates. Her room and board was also about $14,000 (cinder block shared room with bathroom down the hall). I guess if they lived somewhere nice it would be more expensive...

 

[jeepnjudy]

When I was in college, my friend's parents opted to buy a house in the university area and rented out all the rooms to students to cover the expenses of the house so her "board" was covered. Also making food cheaper since she could cook at the house and not have to pay for the dining plan. This could be an option with the cabin money you have saved and then sell the residence after your son graduates so you would still have access to the funds for your cabin. Just another option to think about. It really worked for my friend's family when she was in college.

 

[coast2coastmickey]

Well, I'll chime in as someone who had an interesting but not uncommon choice for college:
1) Dream school: highly rated, I loved it, $50k a year at the time, plus living expenses. I would end up needing to take $35k in student loans for the first year.
2) Community college then transfer
3) State school with some scholarships, maybe minimal loans.

I ended up choosing option 1. I went from top performer/athlete/student leader to barely keeping up in classes due to too much temptation (drinking/girls/etc.).

So after 1 year, I was looking at a 1.7 GPA, $35k in loans, and really not a positive outlook going forward.

I started over at community college. Scored a sales job that paid decent hourly, plus commission. While taking a full load of classes, I ALWAYS worked at least full time hours. All of my money went to pay for community college and living expenses, with anything left over thrown at the loans. After 2 years at the community college, I transferred to the local state school, and did the same thing. Literally always working/schooling 7 days per week, including summers. It was hard, but certainly doable. I didn't take a sip of alcohol or other illicit substance during these years. It was just motivation to redeem myself.

Doing the math, 5 years after high school, I ended up with a solid degree and a decent job with a good company. 2 years after graduation, I was debt free. I never once took an additional student loan after that first year at private school.

Looking back, I wish I had not gone to a school that required loans. I wish I would have started at community college/state school from the get go. I changed my major from Mechanical Engineering to Political Science to Accounting (and ended up sticking with that). People change their minds. People misbehave (see earlier in my post).

But, when you're in high school, you're surrounded by other high performing kids, and adults telling you to reach for your "dream" and that makes this decision hard. Most trusted adults told me to go to the top private. Only one person, an uncle, told me to avoid loans no matter what. That I should stop comparing myself to my wealthier peers that were getting into the same top level schools and getting to go without loans. I didn't listen to him.

My wife went to state school all 4 years and took a bunch of loans, and it took her/us the full 10 years after graduation to pay them all off. We're very fortunate in that we're now in a very good position (two great salaries, a house, a kid, and no consumer debt in our very early thirties), but MANY of our peers at these same schools are STILL paying off loans. These are not lazy people either. These people are looking at big student loans and continuing to rent a place/pay loans when they may want to buy and start a family.

Not everyone is wealthy enough to make a dream school work. That REALLY stinks. But it's reality. So, to OP and anyone else with kids in school, PLEASE try to be logical and realize that most of the time, student loans are not great.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Well, I'll chime in as someone who had an interesting but not uncommon choice for college:
1) Dream school: highly rated, I loved it, $50k a year at the time, plus living expenses. I would end up needing to take $35k in student loans for the first year.
2) Community college then transfer
3) State school with some scholarships, maybe minimal loans.

I ended up choosing option 1. I went from top performer/athlete/student leader to barely keeping up in classes due to too much temptation (drinking/girls/etc.).

So after 1 year, I was looking at a 1.7 GPA, $35k in loans, and really not a positive outlook going forward.

I started over at community college. Scored a sales job that paid decent hourly, plus commission. While taking a full load of classes, I ALWAYS worked at least full time hours. All of my money went to pay for community college and living expenses, with anything left over thrown at the loans. After 2 years at the community college, I transferred to the local state school, and did the same thing. Literally always working/schooling 7 days per week, including summers. It was hard, but certainly doable. I didn't take a sip of alcohol or other illicit substance during these years. It was just motivation to redeem myself.

Doing the math, 5 years after high school, I ended up with a solid degree and a decent job with a good company. 2 years after graduation, I was debt free. I never once took an additional student loan after that first year at private school.

Looking back, I wish I had not gone to a school that required loans. I wish I would have started at community college/state school from the get go. I changed my major from Mechanical Engineering to Political Science to Accounting (and ended up sticking with that). People change their minds. People misbehave (see earlier in my post).

But, when you're in high school, you're surrounded by other high performing kids, and adults telling you to reach for your "dream" and that makes this decision hard. Most trusted adults told me to go to the top private. Only one person, an uncle, told me to avoid loans no matter what. That I should stop comparing myself to my wealthier peers that were getting into the same top level schools and getting to go without loans. I didn't listen to him.

My wife went to state school all 4 years and took a bunch of loans, and it took her/us the full 10 years after graduation to pay them all off. We're very fortunate in that we're now in a very good position (two great salaries, a house, a kid, and no consumer debt in our very early thirties), but MANY of our peers at these same schools are STILL paying off loans. These are not lazy people either. These people are looking at big student loans and continuing to rent a place/pay loans when they may want to buy and start a family.

Not everyone is wealthy enough to make a dream school work. That REALLY stinks. But it's reality. So, to OP and anyone else with kids in school, PLEASE try to be logical and realize that most of the time, student loans are not great.

I find that people don't talk about it much, but I'm amazed at the number of people I know who are in their late thirties and early forties who are still paying off student loans!

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Random thoughts:
- Any student who is considering any career in health care MUST take the "this is nursing" classes (names vary widely, but our school offers 4 classes, the senior year being largely a hands-on experience) in high school, even if nursing isn't the student's goal. These classes introduce students to a world of vocabulary and terms that'll be useful in any branch of medicine, and they help students realize the spectrum of options available in the health care field. My daughter, who DID become a nurse, says that almost everyone in her university nursing class had taken these classes in high school, and the few who hadn't ... kind of "ran behind" the group and had trouble keeping up.
- In addition to the above-referenced classes helping my daughter in her classes, she finished high school having already earned a CNA-1 license. This allowed her to get a job in her university health center, which provided her with some (low level) professional experience.
- She says that the best jobs in health care today are PA (Physician's Assistant) or RN + specialty masters. She says becoming a doctor takes too many years, then the work load is horrible. She says these other two options are attainable with six years of college, and they allow for a better work-life balance. She herself is only two years out of college, and she's trying to pick a specialty; she doesn't want to jump into a program 'til she's sure.

I thought I'd chime in with this. Your daughter and I are on opposite ends of the spectrum in nursing - she's two years out and I'm over three decades in, so our perspectives might differ a bit. I think we also practice in different areas of the country, and I know from previous threads on this topic that some of this can be regional. My daughter is also four classes away from obtaining her BSN so it's been interesting to see how things have changed in the profession in re to education and careers locally for us.

DD didn't have any "This is Nursing" type classes in HS, and I don't know of anyone else who did, but I'm going to ask around. I know where I work, many nurses are sons and daughters of nurses, so they sort of "learned the lingo" and "got the bug" growing up, or sometimes they had their own medical experience when they were young, or a parent or grandparent did, etc. Where I work one must be at least 18 to work in the hospital, and if you've completed your first college clinical as a nursing major, that takes the place of having to have a CNA certification. Either way, though, hospital experience is huge, as it allows hands on experience that's so important. Yesterday DD was in a clinical setting for school and was able to autonomously empty a Foley catheter and do some other things that helped the patient and the nurse, and the nurse praised her to her clinical instructor. She was telling me about it last night and I said that had she not worked in a hospital, she likely may not have had this type of comfort level as a student. It's also helpful if they do a good job at work, that can often lead to a job. (But put down the phones, people!)

A lot of nurses that I work with have gotten their master's degrees, but they wind up coming back to the bedside when they have children, as it works for childcare purposes and/or for life balance. They can work part time, evening, nights, weekends, per-diem, holidays, or short shifts, in many cases, as opposed to PA or NP positions which are often full time days. Some have regretted getting those advanced degrees (and paying the loans) where they weren't using them, yet still have to keep up their licenses and continuing education hours, etc. Not all have young children, either, some just prefer the better scheduling (for them). Pay is probably comparable depending on number of years of experience and where you work, etc. So I've told my own DD to hold off until she gets several years of experience under her belt and explores her options for what she might like to do long term. It can be tricky because it's also easier to do a graduate degree while younger and before kids and such. But I have seen it "wasted" as well, in lots of instances, so I think people should probably just wait until they're pretty sure of what they want to do. (Not every nurse wants to have or needs an advanced degree, either.) In addition to employers, some colleges help with graduate tuition if those nurses help train their students in clinical settings, too, by giving them stipends for one class per semester as thanks.

I've always said it here, but being a nurse and being a doctor is quite different. And not in a bad way, necessarily - the professions are complementary to eachother. Doctors and PAs have a "medical focus", and nurses have a "nursing focus". (NPs have both.) So we all work together to meet all the needs of the patients. Many nurses have zero interest in going to medical school, not because it takes longer or because doctors have a harried workload (which nurses do, too), but because they're not interested in that focus and they like the focus they have (as well as the nice hours and decent pay). I just like to clarify this in case there are some still out there who think that nurses are doctor wannabes. There might be some, but not too many, at least of the nurses I know!

 

[Mrs. Bradbury]

I thought I'd chime in with this. Your daughter and I are on opposite ends of the spectrum in nursing - she's two years out and I'm over three decades in, so our perspectives might differ a bit. I think we also practice in different areas of the country, and I know from previous threads on this topic that some of this can be regional. My daughter is also four classes away from obtaining her BSN so it's been interesting to see how things have changed in the profession in re to education and careers locally for us.

DD didn't have any "This is Nursing" type classes in HS, and I don't know of anyone else who did, but I'm going to ask around. I know where I work, many nurses are sons and daughters of nurses, so they sort of "learned the lingo" and "got the bug" growing up, or sometimes they had their own medical experience when they were young, or a parent or grandparent did, etc. Where I work one must be at least 18 to work in the hospital, and if you've completed your first college clinical as a nursing major, that takes the place of having to have a CNA certification. Either way, though, hospital experience is huge, as it allows hands on experience that's so important. Yesterday DD was in a clinical setting for school and was able to autonomously empty a Foley catheter and do some other things that helped the patient and the nurse, and the nurse praised her to her clinical instructor. She was telling me about it last night and I said that had she not worked in a hospital, she likely may not have had this type of comfort level as a student. It's also helpful if they do a good job at work, that can often lead to a job. (But put down the phones, people!)

A lot of nurses that I work with have gotten their master's degrees, but they wind up coming back to the bedside when they have children, as it works for childcare purposes and/or for life balance. They can work part time, evening, nights, weekends, per-diem, holidays, or short shifts, in many cases, as opposed to PA or NP positions which are often full time days. Some have regretted getting those advanced degrees (and paying the loans) where they weren't using them, yet still have to keep up their licenses and continuing education hours, etc. Not all have young children, either, some just prefer the better scheduling (for them). Pay is probably comparable depending on number of years of experience and where you work, etc. So I've told my own DD to hold off until she gets several years of experience under her belt and explores her options for what she might like to do long term. It can be tricky because it's also easier to do a graduate degree while younger and before kids and such. But I have seen it "wasted" as well, in lots of instances, so I think people should probably just wait until they're pretty sure of what they want to do. (Not every nurse wants to have or needs an advanced degree, either.) In addition to employers, some colleges help with graduate tuition if those nurses help train their students in clinical settings, too, by giving them stipends for one class per semester as thanks.

I've always said it here, but being a nurse and being a doctor is quite different. And not in a bad way, necessarily - the professions are complementary to eachother. Doctors and PAs have a "medical focus", and nurses have a "nursing focus". (NPs have both.) So we all work together to meet all the needs of the patients. Many nurses have zero interest in going to medical school, not because it takes longer or because doctors have a harried workload (which nurses do, too), but because they're not interested in that focus and they like the focus they have (as well as the nice hours and decent pay). I just like to clarify this in case there are some still out there who think that nurses are doctor wannabes. There might be some, but not too many, at least of the nurses I know!

I am posting just to agree with everything you said.

My daughter is an RN as well. She did not do anything nursing-related in high school either. She sought out a program to get a BSN in 4 years, as opposed to, for example, the state university where I work does not have a nursing school but calls a particular track "pre-nursing", so after 4 years of college graduates go on to nursing school somewhere else for 2 more years. My daughter did not see the point of that when 4 years got the same result, LOL. Needless to say, my university does not tell students, "hey, go to (the other state school) for BSN and lop off 2 years of tuition!"

She is now going to graduate school to be a NP in a hospital setting - whatever the one is that is not a family NP. She is completely unsure about her degree program and I have to say, is much more suited to being a doctor. She does not have the "nurturing" aspect that a stereotypical nurse does.

 

[afan]

She is now going to graduate school to be a NP in a hospital setting - whatever the one is that is not a family NP. She is completely unsure about her degree program and I have to say, is much more suited to being a doctor. She does not have the "nurturing" aspect that a stereotypical nurse does.

My last primary care doctor was actually an NP in their office. I really liked her but her demeanor was def more that of a dr than a nurse. Unfortunately she left last month so I need to find someone else closer to home. She was recommended and the only one that was, most friends were also looking for doctor's which is a shame. Good luck to your daughter!

 

[Patience]

I'm not sure if it's been determined or if someone mentioned it just as an example, that your son wants to go to private art school? For scientific illustration? I happen to have a good relationship with a department chair in our art school and was discussing my husband's niece, who did go to private art school for scientific illustration in NYC. I was a little surprised that she did not pursue scientific illustration after she graduated, because she is really, really, really good. He said, "If she was given the impression that she could work in the field of scientific illustration with only a 4-year degree, she was mislead." All this to say, find out what his job prospects should be at the end of 4 years after you've sunk your retirement home earnings into his education. It may just be the beginning.

And I say this as someone who does believe a family should help a student get through college.

I know nothing about scientific illustration but I think this is a good point for many majors. Find out if a masters degree will be realistically needed for your child to work in his or her chosen field and then think long and hard about spending big bucks on their undergraduate degree, especially if you have other children you want to help educate.

My daughter graduated with a BS in communication disorders in 2016. We knew all along that she would have to obtain her masters in order to become a speech language pathologist. We also knew that her undergraduate degree wouldn't be worth much if she didn't do exceptionally well as an undergraduate so she could get into a very comptetitive masters program. I worried about that at first because, quite frankly, I felt her major was very specific and I knew how competitive the speech-language pathology masters program is (tip: in addition to knowing if your child will need a masters, also research how difficult the program is to get into). What if we paid tons of money and she wasn't able to get into a masters program? What kind of job could she get with just an undergraduate degree in communication disorders? The solution was to encourage her to attend a state university and keep undergraduate expenses as low as possible. She did that and, much to our relief, did very well. She applied to 10 masters programs, was accepted to 7 of them, and attended the one that offered her the best deal. For her, that meant in-state tuition, a grant, and a paid graduate assistantship. Her first choice for grad school was actually the University of Tennessee and she was accepted there but, in the end, she stayed at the same university where she attended for undergrad because it made the most financial sense.

She graduated from her speech-language pathology masters program in May, 2018, started working at a clinic for her fellowship year last June, and last month earned her full certifications. She married last year in November, they just bought their first home only 5 months after getting married, and between the two of them, she and her husband have good jobs and a very reasonable student loan debt load. We paid for her undergraduate degree, she borrowed a little for grad school, and her husband had a small amount of debt from his undergraduate program. His student loan debt was small because his parents helped and he worked part-time while attending his university. I say all of this because I'm proud of them but also to illustrate that, unless there is unlimited money, decisions about where to attend, what to major in, and whether someone will need a post-graduate degree should all be weighed carefully. That dream school for an undergraduate education may simply not be worth it.