Disney Wish to be delayed?

[T & R]

onion & bell pepper one

Most definitely refuse, that sounds horrible.

 

[BartmanLA]

I think that P&O refusing delivery of the Iona is purely a financial decision, most likely to keep from being saddled with the burden of upkeep and paying for crewing of a vessel they can't even put a paying passenger on. I think also P&O might be reevaluating their financial status, considering their fiscal viability in the market, and what capital they have to restart operations when it's allowed, adding a new ship in the mix might make it untenable for them to take possession of the Iona right now. I am just guessing here. But it makes a lot of sense Since their owner Carnival Corp has already slated at least 6 ships in the current fleet to be scrapped or sold off, not adding to their fleet at this time just might be their way of protecting the different brand lines involved.

 

[T & R]

I think that P&O refusing delivery of the Iona is purely a financial decision,

That would be crazy. Imagine you're MW and you spend all this money building their ship and then you complete it and hold our your hand for payment, they say, "we're reevaluating our financial position right now and we're not going to pay you". Now you're MW sitting there with a billion dollars worth of product just sitting on your store shelf earning no money.

 

[BartmanLA]

That would be crazy. Imagine you're MW and you spend all this money building their ship and then you complete it and hold our your hand for payment, they say, "we're revaluating our financial position right now and we're not going to pay you". Now you're MW sitting there with a billion dollars worth of product just sitting on your store shelf earning no money.

Contracts like that allow for both sides to with draw from the original agreement for many reasons, I'm not saying they are but they could be exercising one of the clauses in the contract that allow for refusal to accept possession. That's all I'm saying, Billions of dollars are contracted every year with the ship yard and cruise lines, I'm sure they both cover their responsibilities and protect each party from anything that could bring harm to either party financially. I'm sure they'll work it out, it could just be a matter of Meyer-Werft being unable to get craftsmen on board to finish the outfitting of the ship to completion due to the lock down from the virus or a shortage of materials for interior spaces from manufactures that can't make their original deadlines. We just don't know.

 

[T & R]

If the ship wasn't built according to specs, they can refuse delivery.

To me that would be entirely on P&O. When you're building a ship at MW, MW gives you office space at their facility for your cruise line employees so that the cruise employees can work there at the build site during the entire build process. MW even flies the cruise lines' flag at the facility because technically the line has an office there. So if something wasn't done right during the build process, what were those cruise line employees who were embedded there at the build site doing? I would hope that one of the many reasons for having the cruise line's offices there at the build site would be to prevent just this kind of scenario and to ensure that it is built exactly to the cruise line's preferences.

 

[BartmanLA]

To me that would be entirely on P&O. When you're building a ship at MW, MW gives you office space at their facility for your cruise line employees so that the cruise employees can work there at the build site during the entire build process. MW even flies the cruise lines flag at the facility because technically the line has an office there. So if something wasn't done right during the build process, what were those cruise line employees who were embedded there at the build site doing? I would hope that one of the many reasons for having the cruise line's offices there at the build site would be to prevent just this kind of scenario and to ensure that it is built exactly to the cruise line's preferences.

You have to remember that the Iona was floated out and moved from Papenburg to Bremerhaven for final fitting out, that could be part of the issue with final fitting out in a remote location. As I stated above, there could be many reasons to not take possession just yet, it hasn't been said it's a absolute refusal to accept the ship totally, We'll just have to see.

 

[JM23457]

Good evening,

Just saw this article,

https://cruisefever.net/cruise-line...ed-some-of-the-new-cruise-ships-they-ordered/
Looks like the Wish may be delayed, worst case is the two unnamed Tritons getting cancelled.

This is all so tragic. So many jobs lost, lives distrupted, society altered for the worse.

 

[JM23457]

Agreed with the prices they charge I am surprised they haven't expanded faster. They have to be one of the most profitable ships in the industry.

The small number of ships is one reason why they can charge so much. When I heard there would be 7 ships, my first thought was about the downward effect that would have on pricing for the existing ships.

 

[BartmanLA]

The small number of ships is one reason why they can charge so much. When I heard there would be 7 ships, my first thought was about the downward effect that would have on pricing for the existing ships.

Disney Cruise line is "considered" to be a premium cruise operator, that being said, they're also a niche cruise line too (focusing specifically on families and kids) Continuing to expand the fleet and keeping the focus on family friendly environments I don't think will force prices down, and I sure hope they won't increase them unreasonably over what they're asking already. I think the reflection of the efforts the other cruise lines have put on appealing to the whole family for their cruise vacations illustrates that Disney has a unique corner on their clientele. Offering a more expanded choice for these families to get on board just makes good sense, I too, am surprised DCL hasn't done any expansion sooner, but I can also see their pace to reflect on the current demand from the vacationing family. Delaying the Wish actually won't be a problem with the fact that there isn't really any way for them to get the ship built and ready to sail to make the original inaugural cruise date. I also think that the construction schedule will be spaced out appropriately to allow for DCL to absorb each new ship into the fleet, crew it adequately, plan and organize shows, themes, specialty environments and also plan itineraries that would appeal to all who want to sail.

 

[truck1]

The article totally skipped over the P&O refusing delivery. To me that's the curious part of the article. Why/how can you just refuse delivery? That's like ordering a pizza and then when the pizza guy shows up at your door you tell him "never mind". Except it's a billion dollar pizza.

Easy. Ships are designed to meet specific goals. For example speed, fuel burn, noise etc.

When Iona was launched, she spent a month in Bremerhaven along side a pier due to the stop work order. When work began again, she was moved to a drydock. They were doing her trials heading to Rotterdam at the beginning of June, for the drydock, and again last week. Shes tied up in Bremerhaven again which is MW fitting out pier. Theres a good chance there was something wrong which is why the refusal and the re drydocking. They could be haggling over a new price due to the issue or issues or who's responsible. Having a MW ship return to a drydock during trials is pretty much unheard of. It's extremely rare for any ship to go from launch to another drydock before delivery.

 

[truck1]

I wonder what kind of contracts Disney signed with the ports (Canaveral, Miami, New Orleans, Galveston) and whether they have a contractual way out. If they promised cruise ships stationed there for port upgrades, they may have no choice but to go ahead with 3 Triton class ships.

Pretty much as of this date they will sail a ship of x passengers, this many times from this port y number of times a week.They may be able to get some leeway due to the pandemic, but in think well see all 3 Tritons come out. Disney plays the long game with investments, and the money for the ships comes from loans. Which are already secured, and some of it spent on things like hull testing, designs etc. One of the reasons for the delay between the Dream class and the Magic class was timing. DCL was waiting on the perfect financial timing to order the Dream class.

 

[truck1]

So what would that mean for the Wish?

Right now it remains to be seen. Oddesey has had 2 fires on her, and if Im reading this correctly,1 may have done some major damage to the ship. Possibly, the yard itself. Its in the quote from MW has said it's a costly issue.
So with Odesey taking a delay,which could be in Bremerhaven, since shes getting ready to float, AidaCosma which is the ship next ship in line in front of the Wish will be the ship to watch for milestones. Odessey to a degree.

This is just my SWAG, but I'd say 3 to 6 month delay to the Wish wouldnt be out of the question based on what MW has publicly stated.

 

[DCLCruiseFan09]

Correct me if I'm wrong: P&O is a Carnival brand isn't it?

 

[BartmanLA]

Correct me if I'm wrong: P&O is a Carnival brand isn't it?

Yes it is, and as I said before Carnival Corp has already announced that they've decided to sell or scrap at least 6 ships in the next 90 days. So how could this play into the Iona? Who knows. Since the Iona is one a new "Class" ship for P & O Lines this might not necessarily mean that they'll absolutely refuse final delivery of the ship, it could just mean until what ever the line feels is delaying acceptance of her is resolved, it won't take ownership and then "responsibility" of remedying the underlying issue(s) that have spurred the initial refusal of delivery in the first place.

 

[T & R]

Correct me if I'm wrong: P&O is a Carnival brand isn't it?

Yes, which to me explains the refuse delivery of Iona. Carnival is not doing well and needs to get back to cruising ASAP. Since the virus shutdown they have had to take on several billion dollars worth of additional debt, put up a plan to sell 6 of their ships and had their credit rating reduced to junk by both Moody's and S&P. Just in Q2 alone they had a loss of $4.4 billion and had to take on additional $6 billion in debt. That's not for the year that's just in one quarter. Ouch!

 

[BartmanLA]

Pretty much as of this date they will sail a ship of x passengers, this many times from this port y number of times a week.They may be able to get some leeway due to the pandemic, but in think well see all 3 Tritons come out. Disney plays the long game with investments, and the money for the ships comes from loans. Which are already secured, and some of it spent on things like hull testing, designs etc. One of the reasons for the delay between the Dream class and the Magic class was timing. DCL was waiting on the perfect financial timing to order the Dream class.

Agreed! Much of what DCL does is completely influenced by current market needs, but they're always looking down the road, I guess they would have possibly expanded the line with new ships but the 2008 Financial crisis probably had something to do with waiting until later to add more ships. Disney never rushes into things, a good example is their measured and methodical changes to the current parks in attractions and venues. Disney has been around a long long time and they're not going to go anywhere soon. The ships will just be a reflection of that ideology.

 

[DCLCruiseFan09]

I am still really banking on all 3 of the new ships happening even if they are delayed.

I had an interesting conversation with someone while on the Magic this last November that was eye opening. They said they enjoyed the ship and the offerings on board but after sailing with Royal and Carnival, they wish that they had more options for activities on the Magic and that it was their least favorite ship. This was their second cruise on disney, the first was on the Dream. They preferred the 5 night sailing, but liked the Dream far better.

I think that a lot of the more seasoned DCL cruisers prefer the smaller ships while the sailors that are newer to the brand, really like the newer ships more.

I am hoping that all of this downtime will put a bit of a damper on the "Bigger is better, building fast" environment in cruising we've seen over the last few years, but that is probably just wishful thinking.

 

[BartmanLA]

I am still really banking on all 3 of the new ships happening even if they are delayed.

I had an interesting conversation with someone while on the Magic this last November that was eye opening. They said they enjoyed the ship and the offerings on board but after sailing with Royal and Carnival, they wish that they had more options for activities on the Magic and that it was their least favorite ship. This was their second cruise on disney, the first was on the Dream. They preferred the 5 night sailing, but liked the Dream far better.

I think that a lot of the more seasoned DCL cruisers prefer the smaller ships while the sailors that are newer to the brand, really like the newer ships more.

I am hoping that all of this downtime will put a bit of a damper on the "Bigger is better, building fast" environment in cruising we've seen over the last few years, but that is probably just wishful thinking.

You're right, many veterans of DCL like the Classic ships more, the pace is less frantic and there is much less crowding on them. And the newer cruisers, especially couples with young children would obviously be attracted to the newer ships, as they offer more "bells & whistles" to keep them engaged more and offer more activities to keep them all busier. I can't offer a realistic opinion of the Dream class ships as I've never been on one, only the Magic and Wonder so far. The new Triton class ships will be similarly sized to the Dream class, at least in guest capacity, while I'm sure they'll be rolling out a bevy of new features and themed venues for these ships, I am like you, in hoping that they realize that remaining faithful to the original vision that Disney wanted to bring to those that choose to extend their Disney vacation by going to sea and experiencing a true elegant and classy way to celebrate all things Mouse.

 

[OKW Lover]

I wouldn’t be shocked if they utilized the amazing chefs there to feed the NBA

I'd be very surprised. The NBA (actually the individual teams) will bring their own chef's that are experienced in the needs of professional athletes.

Yes, which to me explains the refuse delivery of Iona. Carnival is not doing well and needs to get back to cruising ASAP.

I'd think that a brand new ship would be a big draw in the return to cruising.

You're right, many veterans of DCL like the Classic ships more,

And many like the newer ships for the extra features.

 

[DCLDVC1]

You're right, many veterans of DCL like the Classic ships more, the pace is less frantic and there is much less crowding on them. And the newer cruisers, especially couples with young children would obviously be attracted to the newer ships, as they offer more "bells & whistles" to keep them engaged more and offer more activities to keep them all busier. I can't offer a realistic opinion of the Dream class ships as I've never been on one, only the Magic and Wonder so far. The new Triton class ships will be similarly sized to the Dream class, at least in guest capacity, while I'm sure they'll be rolling out a bevy of new features and themed venues for these ships, I am like you, in hoping that they realize that remaining faithful to the original vision that Disney wanted to bring to those that choose to extend their Disney vacation by going to sea and experiencing a true elegant and classy way to celebrate all things Mouse.

I feel the opposite. The Wonder & Magic feel much more crowded to me even though there aren't as many passengers.