DVC Resorts Expiring 2042

Is there really a good chance that there will be some original owners that will get to keep their points until 2057 for free and some others paid for the extension?

It probably depends who was listed on the deed. DVC knows they really just need to be patient and wait. Time is on their side. Most of us original owners will be too old to care, and many will be permanent guests in the Haunted Mansion. If they listed people who were 18 or 20 in 1992, then maybe. IF they were 18 in 1992, then they'd be 83 in 2057. I'll be 83 when the 2042 contract ends in January, if I'm lucky.
 
Anyone who has bought OKW direct (since those are all 2057) or resale after the extension won't get the extension, as the quit claim is required as part of the closing.

This is really going to apply to any pre-extension owners, whether direct or resale. So there is some possibility, based on the extension dates, that not all of the owners of contracts where this could kick in would be too old to care. Someone who bought in 2006 at age 30 would be a mere 66 in 2042, and 81 in 2057. That 66 year old could be a very sassy grandma in waiting.
 
I'm sure it's small.

I expected OKW to expire in 2042, so I signed the quitclaim. I don't expect to have any use for the contract by that point. I believe many of the non-extenders felt the same. A few thought they saw a loophole and decided to push back, but most would not have wanted to pick a fight with Disney over something like this.

But I suspect it would be much much more common to hold out if BWV, for example, offered a similar extension.
 


I'm sure it's small.

I expected OKW to expire in 2042, so I signed the quitclaim. I don't expect to have any use for the contract by that point. I believe many of the non-extenders felt the same. A few thought they saw a loophole and decided to push back, but most would not have wanted to pick a fight with Disney over something like this.

But I suspect it would be much much more common to hold out if BWV, for example, offered a similar extension.
Well, at the time of the extension, I'm not even sure a bunch of people were thinking "don't care" relative to the 2057. Disney made things really stupid in the extension offer, where the process of opting out was a big fat nuisance. I think they thought "this is really stupid," and then did all the other things they had to do instead. It was an opt-out, not an opt-in, which... whoever thought that up really should have been fired, but we'll never know.

So a lot of 2042 contracts that didn't sign anything may just be out there with a sense of apathy, too.
 
Well, at the time of the extension, I'm not even sure a bunch of people were thinking "don't care" relative to the 2057. Disney made things really stupid in the extension offer, where the process of opting out was a big fat nuisance. I think they thought "this is really stupid," and then did all the other things they had to do instead. It was an opt-out, not an opt-in, which... whoever thought that up really should have been fired, but we'll never know.

So a lot of 2042 contracts that didn't sign anything may just be out there with a sense of apathy, too.

It sounded like they were fairly aggressive for awhile in going after those who hadn't paid or opted out though. Threats to freeze the account etc. I'd guess that got a lot of attention and signatures. And then didn't they even offer a small payment to return the quit claim deed? I mean like $25 or $50 to do so but still that probably got more to make the effort.
 
And then didn't they even offer a small payment to return the quit claim deed? I mean like $25 or $50 to do so but still that probably got more to make the effort.

Yes. I think it was applied as a reduction of annual dues.
 


It sounded like they were fairly aggressive for awhile in going after those who hadn't paid or opted out though. Threats to freeze the account etc. I'd guess that got a lot of attention and signatures. And then didn't they even offer a small payment to return the quit claim deed? I mean like $25 or $50 to do so but still that probably got more to make the effort.
Yes, we got a credit to our dues to pay for the cost of the Notary on the quit claim.
 
When I purchased in 1998 the year 2042 so far off in the distance, now not so much. I would like to think there would be an offer to extend but before that I would add my children's names to the deed. I would like for them and grandkids (if that happens, God willing) to be able to enjoy more years at WDW and I plan to be right there with them! (God willing).
 
It's funny how people talk about it like being right around the corner. I mean that's 23 years from now and I'm sure not wishing my life away. It goes fast yes but I'm not worrying about something that's more than 20 years away. We own at BWV and now SSR so we still will be anyway but not worrying about the 2042 contract. We are just enjoying while we have it and worry about it when it's closer or maybe not who knows?

It is a scary thought. I’ll be 82! No interest in extending. Now that I think of it, it will be 20 years in September that I bought BWV, almost half way there.
 
This they can not do because everything is tied to the exact same Ground Lease. So there isn't a differentiation between before and after 2042 and never could be. For all intent and purpose the resort and all points go to 2057 with the same terms. Some owners decided to pay the special assessment to get the points until 2057, some owners signed their ownership back to DVC after 2042, and some owners did neither hoping they get a free extension to 2057, which might be likely because they haven't levied a lien on any property yet like they claimed.

We will likely see DVC at some point get even more aggressive buying OKW back to convert them to 2057 to prevent this from happening on a large scale I'm guessing.

No they are hoping that DVC can't take the points away from them in 2042 and they have the points until 2057 (if they didn't sign the rights back to DVC after 2042 or didn't buy the extension) because the contracts are tied to the ground lease and the ground lease was extended. DVC was/is a very difficult spot with this extension. The question really will be could DVC ever have charged for the extension, that is what these owners are ultimately going to test.

Here is how i look at it. The original Deed was set to expire in 2042. That is what the owners bought. However, keep in mind, it is not really a Deed. It is a LEASE. Disney, unilaterally, decided to extend the lease to 2057 (15 years). In order to do that, they had to extend ALL the 'deeds' (leases), since various contracts are for a portion of points out of a particular unit. If you extend the deed on the unit, it must encompass the entire unit. However, and this I think is a big thing, Just because they extend the deed lease does not mean that you have the right to have or use that extended deed. Your original contract clearly stated that your interest in the unit expired in 2042. In truth, you do not really have a real DEED the way most people think of it. You do not OWN any property. You only own an 'interest' in a property but the actual property is itself owned 100% by Disney. You have the right to use that property, in certain ways, specified in your 'deed,' for the period of time specified in your deed.

Disney, then, in essence said, "If you want to use this extended time frame, then you must pay us a certain (fixed) amount of money, per point." Then, to clarify things, they asked everyone who did not pay for the extension to sign a Quit Claim deed specifying that they gave up all rights to use it after 2042. As far as I am concerned, this is just housekeeping. To make things CLEAR for people. In reality, if you did not pay the extension, then you do not have ANY RIGHT WHATSOEVER to have or to use the property, after 2042. And, since Disney controls the reservation, booking and trading system, GOOD LUCK trying to schedule something with points that you do not own, after that 2042 date. It aint happenin'. And I can just see you going to court to try to 'compel' Disney to let you use it:

OWNER: "Your honor, I want to book a vacation at a resort that I own, but Disney won't let me. Please make them let me."

DISNEY: "Your honor, this person does not have any rights, ownership or interest in this property. At one time, they purchased a contract which specified that they could use it until 2042. We decided to change the length of time they could use it, IF they paid additional money. They did NOT pay the additional money. Therefore, their contract expired in January 2042. They no longer have any rights in this property."

JUDGE: "Mr Owner. Are you saying that you purchased a contract that expired in January 2042, and that this contract allowed you to use property, owned by Disney, until that date, and that you have done this, and used the property? But now, because Disney decided to extend the length of the right to USE period to some people, because those people paid extra money for it, that YOU think that YOU TOO should be able to use it, even though you have not paid for it? And even though you bought, knowing it expired in 2042? GET OUT OF MY COURT!"

Disney could get aggressive and start pushing people to pay, or get out. But they don't need to. All they need to do is wait, and then just laugh when you try to book. THEY are not the ones who are going to look bad here.
 
Here is how i look at it. The original Deed was set to expire in 2042. That is what the owners bought. However, keep in mind, it is not really a Deed. It is a LEASE. Disney, unilaterally, decided to extend the lease to 2057 (15 years). In order to do that, they had to extend ALL the 'deeds' (leases), since various contracts are for a portion of points out of a particular unit. If you extend the deed on the unit, it must encompass the entire unit. However, and this I think is a big thing, Just because they extend the deed lease does not mean that you have the right to have or use that extended deed. Your original contract clearly stated that your interest in the unit expired in 2042. In truth, you do not really have a real DEED the way most people think of it. You do not OWN any property. You only own an 'interest' in a property but the actual property is itself owned 100% by Disney. You have the right to use that property, in certain ways, specified in your 'deed,' for the period of time specified in your deed.

Disney, then, in essence said, "If you want to use this extended time frame, then you must pay us a certain (fixed) amount of money, per point." Then, to clarify things, they asked everyone who did not pay for the extension to sign a Quit Claim deed specifying that they gave up all rights to use it after 2042. As far as I am concerned, this is just housekeeping. To make things CLEAR for people. In reality, if you did not pay the extension, then you do not have ANY RIGHT WHATSOEVER to have or to use the property, after 2042. And, since Disney controls the reservation, booking and trading system, GOOD LUCK trying to schedule something with points that you do not own, after that 2042 date. It aint happenin'. And I can just see you going to court to try to 'compel' Disney to let you use it:

OWNER: "Your honor, I want to book a vacation at a resort that I own, but Disney won't let me. Please make them let me."

DISNEY: "Your honor, this person does not have any rights, ownership or interest in this property. At one time, they purchased a contract which specified that they could use it until 2042. We decided to change the length of time they could use it, IF they paid additional money. They did NOT pay the additional money. Therefore, their contract expired in January 2042. They no longer have any rights in this property."

JUDGE: "Mr Owner. Are you saying that you purchased a contract that expired in January 2042, and that this contract allowed you to use property, owned by Disney, until that date, and that you have done this, and used the property? But now, because Disney decided to extend the length of the right to USE period to some people, because those people paid extra money for it, that YOU think that YOU TOO should be able to use it, even though you have not paid for it? And even though you bought, knowing it expired in 2042? GET OUT OF MY COURT!"

Disney could get aggressive and start pushing people to pay, or get out. But they don't need to. All they need to do is wait, and then just laugh when you try to book. THEY are not the ones who are going to look bad here.
You do have a real deed it’s a deed on a land lease based condo association but it is very much a real deed. The deed represents your ownership interest nothing else does nor dictates the terms of ownership. All the deed states is you are buying interest in the condo association subject to a ground lease (dictating which ground lease) and any amendments to it. These amendments/extensions are allowed per the POS and the original ground lease; however, it doesn’t say how the amendments/extensions can be a charge or how it works. With OKW they tested the water and likely have decided to stop there because of the issues, among the ability to resell with higher point charts being a huge incentive.

I’m not stating what people are hoping for are right in doing so since they originally bought until 2042 and getting what they paid for. But Disney would not have been threatening to do the special assessment and liens (with the intention to foreclose on if the quit claim wasn’t signed or the price paid) if it was as clear cut legally. They would have sent a simple letter to owners remind them they expire in 2042 unless they opt in longer. Ownership interest is 100% dictated by the deed thus you own until the ground lease expires and the terms of the vacation ownership program are dictated in the POS. The purchase agreement just dictated the terms of the sale, not ownership rights, so it is the assumptions of both parties at time of purchase.

As to the expiration date in the purchase agreement it does state the original date but also says unless the ground lease is extended. There is no language I have ever seen that makes it clear cut that all deeds expire in 2042 unless they bought the extension. Again right or wrong on the owners holding out that is another discussion. My point, in the posts you quoted, was to clarify that Disney couldn’t adjust point charts for the 2057 owners vs the 2042 owners (since the entire association is a singular entity), state Disney would buy back more aggressively so the resort doesn’t turn back to them in any significant quantity, and to explain why people aren’t signing the quit claim and what they hope to gain.
 
Last edited:
You do have a real deed it’s a deed on a land lease based condo association but it is very much a real deed. The deed represents your ownership interest nothing else does nor dictates the terms of ownership. All the deed states is you are buying interest in the condo association subject to a ground lease (dictating which ground lease) and any amendments to it. These amendments/extensions are allowed per the POS and the original ground lease; however, it doesn’t say how the amendments/extensions can be a charge or how it works. With OKW they tested the water and likely have decided to stop there because of the issues, among the ability to resell with higher point charts being a huge incentive.

I’m not stating what people are hoping for are right in doing so since they originally bought until 2042 and getting what they paid for. But Disney would not have been threatening to do the special assessment and liens (with the intention to foreclose on if the quit claim wasn’t signed or the price paid) if it was as clear cut legally. They would have sent a simple letter to owners remind them they expire in 2042 unless they opt in longer. Ownership interest is 100% dictated by the deed thus you own until the ground lease expires and the terms of the vacation ownership program are dictated in the POS. The purchase agreement just dictated the terms of the sale, not ownership rights, so it is the assumptions of both parties at time of purchase.

As to the expiration date in the purchase agreement it does state the original date but also says unless the ground lease is extended. There is no language I have ever seen that makes it clear cut that all deeds expire in 2042 unless they bought the extension. Again right or wrong on the owners holding out that is another discussion. My point, in the posts you quoted, was to clarify that Disney couldn’t adjust point charts for the 2057 owners vs the 2042 owners (since the entire association is a singular entity), state Disney would buy back more aggressively so the resort doesn’t turn back to them in any significant quantity, and to explain why people aren’t signing the quit claim and what they hope to gain.

I understand, and agree. This is a COMPLEX issue. What it will ultimately come down to is, how much right does Disney have, unilaterally, to change the agreement. And what terminology is in the actual agreements. As we have seen with the POS revision and the now rescinded 2020 point charts, DISNEY says that they pretty much have the rights to do ANYTHING THEY WANT. Is this true? I hope not. But Disney has essentially claimed that it is true. So, an appeal on this, to a court of law, would be based on a court interpreting the EXACT (or inexact) language that Disney has used. I do hope that Disney's right to be a bully is curtailed somewhat. But, as they say, "possession is 9/10ths of the law." And Disney owns/possesses both the property itself AND the mechanism by which it is used by the DVC members. So the 'owners' would have to sue them to compel them to perform. If the Owners were actually able to do this successfully, then Disney would probably need to refund the Extension Fee that they received from people who extended. It would come to possibly as much as $100 million dollars. it would also be a partial test case on a lot of other issues regarding DVC and I don't think Disney wants that, so they will probably be very aggressive in some ways, but will make themselves out to be the victims of freeloading, shady, greedy owners, in other ways. Especially when they point out that it isn't them who is hurt. It is the other owners, who actually paid the fees and extended. On a relative basis, those people who paid will be the ones losing out, and Disney will push that, and if they have to get aggressive, they will claim they are only doing that to keep it fair, for the people who were honest and paid their fees. In other words, they will say that they are defending the DVC Owners from themselves. Or defending the 'Good, honest' DVC owners from the 'Bad, cheating' DVC owners.
 
I understand, and agree. This is a COMPLEX issue. What it will ultimately come down to is, how much right does Disney have, unilaterally, to change the agreement. And what terminology is in the actual agreements. As we have seen with the POS revision and the now rescinded 2020 point charts, DISNEY says that they pretty much have the rights to do ANYTHING THEY WANT. Is this true? I hope not. But Disney has essentially claimed that it is true. So, an appeal on this, to a court of law, would be based on a court interpreting the EXACT (or inexact) language that Disney has used. I do hope that Disney's right to be a bully is curtailed somewhat. But, as they say, "possession is 9/10ths of the law." And Disney owns/possesses both the property itself AND the mechanism by which it is used by the DVC members. So the 'owners' would have to sue them to compel them to perform. If the Owners were actually able to do this successfully, then Disney would probably need to refund the Extension Fee that they received from people who extended. It would come to possibly as much as $100 million dollars. it would also be a partial test case on a lot of other issues regarding DVC and I don't think Disney wants that, so they will probably be very aggressive in some ways, but will make themselves out to be the victims of freeloading, shady, greedy owners, in other ways. Especially when they point out that it isn't them who is hurt. It is the other owners, who actually paid the fees and extended. On a relative basis, those people who paid will be the ones losing out, and Disney will push that, and if they have to get aggressive, they will claim they are only doing that to keep it fair, for the people who were honest and paid their fees. In other words, they will say that they are defending the DVC Owners from themselves. Or defending the 'Good, honest' DVC owners from the 'Bad, cheating' DVC owners.
Definitely agree with all of this. It is going to be interesting in 2042. I can't imagine those who held out for the "free" extension getting it while those that paid being happy with that. Then those that signed over their rights would be upset too.
 
OK - odd, but DW and I LIKE this :). We WANT to be kicked out in 2042 :). After which - we have no obligations :).
You see, by 2042, we will be 90 :). We will have broken even many times over :).

And we are NOT paying for WDW to renovate our home DVC for someone else.

The Capital improvements contribution part of the MFs is going to be something to watch as the contracts near the end. In the final 8-10 years or so the big refurb should be good thru the remainder of the contract and say 5 years for any soft good refurbs? That part of MFs should go away.
 
We wound up selling this spring. We originally owned at OKW and then sold those and bought at HHI. 18 wonderful years of vacation. The point chart changes, rule changes and the extreme dues increases and the 'end' in 2042 were all part of the decision. We were able to recoup our original cost and you can't put a price on the family time.
 
Watching the "DEED" "LEASE" argument and just wanted to point out that whether you own or not, you have a contract allotting you a number of points per year up until January 2042. Even if I own the property now, I can not use more time than points I have for the prescribed stay. In 2043 if I own and don't have points I have no where to stay. I do suspect however there will be a class action law suit in 2042 as a willing attorney looking for an opportunity will bring an action which Disney is likely to defend. I also suspect there are a good number of owners hoping to get something for nothing, we see it all the time, the little extras people grab while staying that end up impacting all owners.

The real question for me is what are the plans to handle the massive amount of points reverting bat to DVD in 2042, will they tear down Boardwalk and Beach Club to build newer and bigger. Do they offer owner discounts for all expiring properties knowing that there are likely younger family members who have enjoyed their parents ownerships who would love a discounted membership of their own. This is certainly a well kept secret, someone has a plan on the shelf and seems to be very tight lipped.
 
will they tear down Boardwalk and Beach Club to build newer and bigger
Beach Club yes, BoardWalk I would be surprised.

BCV building is detached from the hotel and off in the back. There is also a lot of unbuilt land back behind it. They could do a rebuild/expansion in 2042 with little to no disruption (other than sound) to the Beach Club and Yacht Club hotels. It is also an incredibly sought after DVC resort, so I think it is very likely they let it expire on time in 2042.

BWV building includes several business and surrounds the main pool for the BWI guests. BWV is also physically attached to BWI. A rebuild would disrupt that entire area, businesses and inn. I don't think it is feasible. I imagine they will refurbish the rooms heavily and resell them either immediately in 2042 or add extensions at some point 10-15 years prior to expiration.
 
Watching the "DEED" "LEASE" argument and just wanted to point out that whether you own or not, you have a contract allotting you a number of points per year up until January 2042. Even if I own the property now, I can not use more time than points I have for the prescribed stay. In 2043 if I own and don't have points I have no where to stay. I do suspect however there will be a class action law suit in 2042 as a willing attorney looking for an opportunity will bring an action which Disney is likely to defend. I also suspect there are a good number of owners hoping to get something for nothing, we see it all the time, the little extras people grab while staying that end up impacting all owners.

The real question for me is what are the plans to handle the massive amount of points reverting bat to DVD in 2042, will they tear down Boardwalk and Beach Club to build newer and bigger. Do they offer owner discounts for all expiring properties knowing that there are likely younger family members who have enjoyed their parents ownerships who would love a discounted membership of their own. This is certainly a well kept secret, someone has a plan on the shelf and seems to be very tight lipped.

Leaseholds are nothing new in real estate andI don’t see any arguments that could be valid in 2042. What we bought was a real estate interest in a resort. It is represented by points for use purposes and that representation is defined. We didn’t buy points per se. When that lease ends the ownership ends.
 

GET A DISNEY VACATION QUOTE

Dreams Unlimited Travel is committed to providing you with the very best vacation planning experience possible. Our Vacation Planners are experts and will share their honest advice to help you have a magical vacation.

Let us help you with your next Disney Vacation!









Top