EU Guidelines for Restarting Cruises

[T & R]

They would have to reduce capacity and guarantee access to the kids clubs for me to consider cruising again. I've said it before, but I'm not paying DCL prices to deal with the "maybe you'll get in" nonsense they pull at Aulani for the kids club. I think they should have more kids activities outdoors on the sports deck, though. In the clubs my kid spent almost all the time on screens, unless a character came by to do a craft or activity. He really enjoyed those activities though, and I could see them doing fun ones on deck.

I can't keep my kids out of the kids clubs. I used to feel guilty for leaving them in there, like I'm a bad parent or something but they love being in there and get upset when we pull them out (which is a credit to DCL). So if they limit or cannot guarantee access to the kids clubs then that is going to be an issue for us. Especially given the premium we are paying for a DCL cruise.

 

[drclaws]

"It is also clear that masks serve symbolic roles." - New England Journal of Medicine.
Asymptomatic transmissions “very rare” - WHO

People can disagree or add clarification with the above, however you cannot disagree with the fact that I will not cruise if masks are required onboard.

Care to cite that dates of what you posted?

 

[Intr3pid]

I posted elsewhere that cruising has already returned in some forms around the globe. Cruises have resumed in Ha Long Bay. These are small ships ranging from super budget to high end boutique. The last time we were there I believe that there was six cabins on our ship, but there are certainly many larger ships. Obviously that is the extreme example, and Vietnam has not had any community transmission for about two months (but is also starting to open up) As soon as they do lift restrictions, I'm planning a leisure trip as I usually am in Vietnam yearly.

The Ha Long Bay cruises are as far removed from your mega floating resorts as you can imagine. The junk boats can hold a max of about 60 guests, and if you are overnighting in a more elaborate setup, it's a max of about 20 to 30 guests. We were there in December - just before the virus hit - on Celebrity's Singapore to HK holiday itinerary. Those junk boats were parked on top of each other, and you could even walk across them.

The bay is phenomenal.

 

[bavaria]

The Ha Long Bay cruises are as far removed from your mega floating resorts as you can imagine. The junk boats can hold a max of about 60 guests, and if you are overnighting in a more elaborate setup, it's a max of about 20 to 30 guests. We were there in December - just before the virus hit - on Celebrity's Singapore to HK holiday itinerary. Those junk boats were parked on top of each other, and you could even walk across them.

The bay is phenomenal.

Yes, the cheapest and most touristic boats are gathered together. It's important to do research and find operators who do not follow the crowds and seek out areas less populated, and usually even more spectacular. We had no other ship around us the last time at night, nor at sunrise. We only saw other passengers from other ships when we went on an early morning excursion, and then only from two other ships.

It's easy to follow a touristic route in Vietnam, seeing or travelling with Americans at some sights. But it's just as easy to spend days without speaking to anyone except perhaps some German to a returned Vietnamese, or far less likely a few words of French as the population is very young. I much prefer the latter way of travelling.

 

[Intr3pid]

Yes, the cheapest and most touristic boats are gathered together. It's important to do research and find operators who do not follow the crowds and seek out areas less populated, and usually even more spectacular. We had no other ship around us the last time at night, nor at sunrise. We only saw other passengers from other ships when we went on an early morning excursion, and then only from two other ships.

It's easy to follow a touristic route in Vietnam, seeing or travelling with Americans at some sights. But it's just as easy to spend days without speaking to anyone except perhaps some German to a returned Vietnamese, or far less likely a few words of French as the population is very young. I much prefer the latter way of travelling.

The overnight cruises in the bay are typically marketed to those who either don't have the time or the money for longer cruising or have a very strong affinity to the area. If you really want to be away from the others, just hire a private boat - like we did for the 5 of us - and you can then go anywhere you want. We didn't have any desire to spend more than a day on the water - or, for that matter, travel for days without speaking with anyone. We had a fantastic time.

 

[JM23457]

If this is true then why do they use words like "may help" or "most likely to reduce"? Why don't they just say it does help or does reduce? When they use those kinds of terms to describe something it comes across as unsure and sounds like they do not know and they're just floating an opinion. Kinda reduces their credibility.

They don't have proof cloth masks reduce the spread of Covid. It's likely they do, due to catching droplets, but no controlled studies showing reduced disease transmission via cloth masks have been completed.

That's why they hedge the wording.

 

[TestingH2O]

That's why they hedge the wording.

And that’s how science works. The idea that living things are made of cells is still classified as a theory. As a discipline, science is pretty comfortable with the idea that understands change and develop over time. If that wasn’t the case, we’d still believe that the sun revolves around Earth regardless of data. Understandings of COVID continue to change just like any other scientific study.

 

[JM23457]

And that’s how science works. The idea that living things are made of cells is still classified as a theory. As a discipline, science is pretty comfortable with the idea that understands change and develop over time. If that wasn’t the case, we’d still believe that the sun revolves around Earth regardless of data. Understandings of COVID continue to change just like any other scientific study.

Science is based in facts. Theories come from extensive analysis of data and experimentation, which they don't have for cloth masks preventing the spread of Covid. There is not nearly enough evidence for them to even consider calling it a "theory". Theories are accepted as scientific truth, due to the extensive data backing them up, which is not the case here.

They don't know & they know that they don't know. It is likely to help, so out of an abundance of caution, they recommend it. But they don't know. It isn't a fact. It isn't a theory. It's likelihood, caution, and hope.

 

[TestingH2O]

They don't know & they know that they don't know. It is likely to help, so out of an abundance of caution, they recommend it. But they don't know. It isn't a fact. It isn't a theory. It's likelihood, caution, and hope.

Didn’t say it was a theory. I said that science is comfortable with understandings changing and used an example to support that claim. Even the language of science leaves room for growth and chance. Growth and change have led to the varying guidance on masks over time. Our best understanding right now is that masks probably help hence the changing guidelines.

However, because understandings of the virus and transmission keep changing, people choose that changing understanding as “evidence” to discredit the doctors and scientists who are studying and learning in real time.

Again, people who study science are, in general, comfortable with the idea that understandings changing.