First RIV resale contract sold for?

[skier_pete]

https://www.fidelityresales.com/resort/disneys-riviera-resort

Looks like no offers in that Ballpark - which is not a surprise.

 

[Great3]

I think the sellers are gonna be hit with the new reality about Riviera, and I think the broker helping with the listing are in for a surprise. At $160 / pts., might as well go direct with the incentives, it won't cost much more.

I know others think it won't be as bad as $100 / point or lower, but I am on the other side of the camp, it won't be higher than lowest WDW based resort, which is SSR currently. Only time will tell, Riviera resales one will be interesting to say the least.

Great3

 

[kboo]

At $160 / pts., might as well go direct with the incentives, it won't cost much more.

That may be, but people who bought with financing may be stuck. My guess still is around $120pp, although pictures of the SSR refurb are pretty darned nice, making SSR Resale more than competitive (or might support another buying strategy of SSR + resales and DVC 2.0

 

[anomamatt]

That may be, but people who bought with financing may be stuck. My guess still is around $120pp, although pictures of the SSR refurb are pretty darned nice, making SSR Resale more than competitive (or might support another buying strategy of SSR + resales and DVC 2.0

I agree with all of this.

If someone financed the Riviera purchase and needs out now, they probably won't be able to take much less than $160... under ~$160/point, they will be forced into foreclosure instead.

 

[Matty B13]

If someone financed the Riviera purchase and needs out now, they probably won't be able to take much less than $160... under ~$160/point, they will be forced into foreclosure instead.

At that point, probably just have to call DVC up and walk away from the contract. Would probably be the best thing the owner could do financially.

 

[Hjs33]

At that point, probably just have to call DVC up and walk away from the contract. Would probably be the best thing the owner could do financially.

How do you “walk away from a contract”?

 

[eMoneyBug]

I watched the DVC Riv show that they discussed this issue. Very informative and good talking points by the panel. I really do hope that Disney walks back that resale of Riv has no rights to book at the other 14 resorts. That would be a shame because we as buyers are DISNEY FANS for life. Probably a HIGH % of us would only sell because of a "Life Desperate" need / Financial "Issue", for our buyers to not be able to use their timeshare to freely experience as many DVC Resorts as possible is a Crime!

 

[Matty B13]

How do you “walk away from a contract”?

Call up DVC and just say your not going to use the contract and not going to pay the financing either.

I don't think you take to big a hit on your credit score either. Chances are DVC will just foreclose on it.

 

[BWoody]

Question for those who think/hope the RIV resale restrictions (only able to book at RIV) will be walked back. If they do this, do you think they would only change allowing RIV resales to book all resorts, or do you think they would unilaterally remove the recent restrictions on L14 resales booking RIV and future resorts? Will these 2 restrictions be viewed as completely separate from each other or are they tied together - if one changes they both change?

 

[skier_pete]

Question for those who think/hope the RIV resale restrictions (only able to book at RIV) will be walked back. If they do this, do you think they would only change allowing RIV resales to book all resorts, or do you think they would unilaterally remove the recent restrictions on L14 resales booking RIV and future resorts? Will these 2 restrictions be viewed as completely separate from each other or are they tied together - if one changes they both change?

They would likely have to change them all if they did so - not convinced it will happen, sales will have to get worse IMO.

I watched the DVC Riv show that they discussed this issue. Very informative and good talking points by the panel. I really do hope that Disney walks back that resale of Riv has no rights to book at the other 14 resorts. That would be a shame because we as buyers are DISNEY FANS for life. Probably a HIGH % of us would only sell because of a "Life Desperate" need / Financial "Issue", for our buyers to not be able to use their timeshare to freely experience as many DVC Resorts as possible is a Crime!

There was a lot of speculation on that show (I was part of it!) - but Jerry always makes a great point in that "You cannot eliminate people's need to sell these properties" and the mistake I think Disney is making is that part of the reason they can charge such high prices for their timeshares is that many people know they retain value. If you crush the value, you will turn people away. It's another step towards DVC becoming "just another timeshare", which is NOT what they should want.

 

[ELMC]

I watched the DVC Riv show that they discussed this issue. Very informative and good talking points by the panel. I really do hope that Disney walks back that resale of Riv has no rights to book at the other 14 resorts. That would be a shame because we as buyers are DISNEY FANS for life. Probably a HIGH % of us would only sell because of a "Life Desperate" need / Financial "Issue", for our buyers to not be able to use their timeshare to freely experience as many DVC Resorts as possible is a Crime!

This is a great point that I think is shared by the vast majority of the population. But speaking strictly from a personal benefit standpoint, I do not share this sentiment. (As an aside, from a "greater good" or holistic ecosystem perspective I do share these thoughts). I am a bit of a contrarian by nature, and it doesn't surprise me that my thinking on this topic is contrary to the general sentiment. I'll explain my thinking and I'll do so in list form to avoid being too verbose.

1) I love DVC and entered into the market in 2012 when prices were an amazing value.
2) I think prices of DVC have exceeded the value proposition of the product.
3) This round of resale restrictions is, barring a recession or worse, the quickest way to return resale prices to the value range.
4) I would personally love to own deeply discounted, restricted points at a number of resorts. The thought being is that those stays would recapture the value proposition that I feel is lost.

Now, I recognize that in order for this to happen those who bought direct and had to sell are going to take a bath. Obviously that is terrible for them and I am not wishing to profit off of their loss. So I want to be clear, I am not hoping this happens. But I am predicting it might, and I would re-enter the DVC market under those conditions.

 

[Momtomouselover]

Selfishly as long as I don't have to take the bath I don't mind buying resort specific rock bottom pricing either. Plus, if you buy at such a discount then you have lower expectations if/when you resell it. I would easily pay $100 pp for a contract at Riviera. I would want a smallish contract and sometimes stay at Riviera and other times pay cash to stay elsewhere or split stays.

 

[Matty B13]

Question for those who think/hope the RIV resale restrictions (only able to book at RIV) will be walked back. If they do this, do you think they would only change allowing RIV resales to book all resorts, or do you think they would unilaterally remove the recent restrictions on L14 resales booking RIV and future resorts? Will these 2 restrictions be viewed as completely separate from each other or are they tied together - if one changes they both change?

Problem is.... even if they walk back the restrictions today, the contracts are written in a way that allows DVC to change anything at anytime with RIV, unlike the L14 resorts. How many people want to own a contract that can be altered on the whims of management at DVC. Technically speaking,DVC doesn't have to grandfather in the L14 resorts like they have in the past for benefits or trading into other resorts.

 

[Brianstl]

years

Selfishly as long as I don't have to take the bath I don't mind buying resort specific rock bottom pricing either. Plus, if you buy at such a discount then you have lower expectations if/when you resell it. I would easily pay $100 pp for a contract at Riviera. I would want a smallish contract and sometimes stay at Riviera and other times pay cash to stay elsewhere or split stays.

I would probably be in at about the $80-$90 pp range. The MF at Riviera scare me long term because I have no clue what the cost of operating and maintaining Skyliner will be.

 

[Sandisw]

This is a great point that I think is shared by the vast majority of the population. But speaking strictly from a personal benefit standpoint, I do not share this sentiment. (As an aside, from a "greater good" or holistic ecosystem perspective I do share these thoughts). I am a bit of a contrarian by nature, and it doesn't surprise me that my thinking on this topic is contrary to the general sentiment. I'll explain my thinking and I'll do so in list form to avoid being too verbose.

1) I love DVC and entered into the market in 2012 when prices were an amazing value.
2) I think prices of DVC have exceeded the value proposition of the product.
3) This round of resale restrictions is, barring a recession or worse, the quickest way to return resale prices to the value range.
4) I would personally love to own deeply discounted, restricted points at a number of resorts. The thought being is that those stays would recapture the value proposition that I feel is lost.

Now, I recognize that in order for this to happen those who bought direct and had to sell are going to take a bath. Obviously that is terrible for them and I am not wishing to profit off of their loss. So I want to be clear, I am not hoping this happens. But I am predicting it might, and I would re-enter the DVC market under those conditions.

I do agree with you in that I would buy a resort specific resale IF it was a resort that I want to stay at. For me, that isn't RIV. But, say the new Reflections (based on proximity to MK) is one I like when it gets built, then I could see picking up points there to add to my collection of points that are eligible at all.

I do not think that DVC will walk back the restrictions. Unfortunately, their main concern is not resale value for members. It is about selling a product that one wants for years and years to come and that needing to sell isn't something one should worry about (typical timeshare product). IMO, resale value should never factor into one's decision to buy. I just feel bad that we have people who now have to sell before the resort even opened and could be stuck.

 

[kboo]

At that point, probably just have to call DVC up and walk away from the contract. Would probably be the best thing the owner could do financially.

How do you “walk away from a contract”?

Call up DVC and just say your not going to use the contract and not going to pay the financing either.

I don't think you take to big a hit on your credit score either. Chances are DVC will just foreclose on it.

Uh ... How does that not affect one's credit score??!!

-------------------
Fwiw, I was one of those who thought I would wait and see how RIV resale prices settled, because at that point we could see how hard it is too book at 7mo, and whether it's a success, etc. But then we realized we needed more points sooner rather than later, and with the developer discounts, the price to buy at RIV was competitive with adding restricted-to-L14 BLT points, minus the whole ROFR process. I do think that going forward it will be a perfectly valid option to buy a resale contract at a DVC 2.0 home resort at a deep discount from direct, and use it only for that resort. At the right discount as @ELMC says, it would be a good value.

One thing to consider - When I bought my first resale contract at BLT, the price per point was 57% of what it was selling direct. 57% of $188 is around $107. I bet there are a lot of people (especially people who already have unrestricted or L14 points) who would be happy to buy a RIV contract for $107 and *only* be able to use it there.

 

[Sandisw]

Uh ... How does that not affect one's credit score??!!

-------------------
Fwiw, I was one of those who thought I would wait and see how RIV resale prices settled, because at that point we could see how hard it is too book at 7mo, and whether it's a success, etc. But then we realized we needed more points sooner rather than later, and with the developer discounts, the price to buy at RIV was competitive with adding restricted-to-L14 BLT points, minus the whole ROFR process. I do think that going forward it will be a perfectly valid option to buy a resale contract at a DVC 2.0 home resort at a deep discount from direct, and use it only for that resort. At the right discount as @ELMC says, it would be a good value.

One thing to consider - When I bought my first resale contract at BLT, the price per point was 57% of what it was selling direct. 57% of $188 is around $107. I bet there are a lot of people (especially people who already have unrestricted or L14 points) who would be happy to buy a RIV contract for $107 and *only* be able to use it there.

I don't know if this is still true, but back when I bought in 2009, DVC did not put the financing on your credit report. So, it didn't show up as a debt. Not sure if this could be why it might not hit someone's credit??? Just guessing...

 

[kboo]

I don't know if this is still true, but back when I bought in 2009, DVC did not put the financing on your credit report. So, it didn't show up as a debt. Not sure if this could be why it might not hit someone's credit??? Just guessing...

a foreclosure is a court proceeding ... I would think that most credit reporting companies would be able to find a liability like a car or timeshare loan. It's still a real estate interests that has to legally revert back.

 

[ELMC]

I do agree with you in that I would buy a resort specific resale IF it was a resort that I want to stay at. For me, that isn't RIV. But, say the new Reflections (based on proximity to MK) is one I like when it gets built, then I could see picking up points there to add to my collection of points that are eligible at all.

I do not think that DVC will walk back the restrictions. Unfortunately, their main concern is not resale value for members. It is about selling a product that one wants for years and years to come and that needing to sell isn't something one should worry about (typical timeshare product). IMO, resale value should never factor into one's decision to buy. I just feel bad that we have people who now have to sell before the resort even opened and could be stuck.

Great points. I'm talking in theory about the mechanics of buying resale there, but due to the restrictions I would absolutely NOT do so until I stayed at the resort and determined it was a place I enjoyed being. I agree with you completely about Disney not being concerned about resale value for members. And quite frankly, I don't think they necessarily should be. Every other timeshare in the world depreciates by 75-99% as soon as the ten-day recision period ends. We are holding Disney to a much higher standard; I question whether or not that is fair.

 

[Brian Noble]

the mistake I think Disney is making is that part of the reason they can charge such high prices for their timeshares is that many people know they retain value. If you crush the value, you will turn people away.

Maybe. But plenty of other timeshare systems with resale values at or close to zero are still able to sell full freight to willing buyers. The average person who buys a timeshare evidently isn't thinking about this. As it happens, Diamond and (I think) Marriott both are also structured this way; points you buy from them are good system-wide, points on the secondary market revert only to the underlying (group of) properties. They still sell perfectly well.