First RIV resale contract sold for?

[Bing Showei]

At the last midnight magic I was at, I spend 30 minutes with 3 executives discussing with them why I thought they were making a mistake with the new resale restrictions.

I don’t imagine they could do much much more than toe the company line. I would’ve enjoyed seeing that nonetheless.

 

[mustinjourney]

Agree that thinking that Riviera will behave the same as other the original DVCs would be a mistake. Availability and resale value both have the potential to be greatly impacted in a negative manner with this resale restriction. At the last midnight magic I was at, I spend 30 minutes with 3 executives discussing with them why I thought they were making a mistake with the new resale restrictions.

And what did they say?

 

[Great3]

And at what level are the executives, high enough to make a difference?

 

[ELMC]

2012 would disagree with you on this. Now, in fairness, a lot has happened since then and the market has grown substantially. But in the wake of a terrible economic collapse the DVC resale market took a huge dip, and prices for many resorts fell to or below the $50 level. If you combine another recession (or worse) with shortening lifespans I would not be surprised to see DVC resale prices approach 2012 price levels at some point in the future.

Thinking about this some more, I would also like to add that this is a timeshare we are talking about and it's not intentionally designed to have ANY resale value. As many have stated, the value of a timeshare is in its use and not its resale value. The fact that we can safely assume that it will have any resale value at all is specific to DVC and is not consistent with other timeshare properties. And based on the recent changes to DVC it may not be a safe assumption for much longer.

 

[RaymOOOnd]

Thinking about this some more, I would also like to add that this is a timeshare we are talking about and it's not intentionally designed to have ANY resale value. As many have stated, the value of a timeshare is in its use and not its resale value. The fact that we can safely assume that it will have any resale value at all is specific to DVC and is not consistent with other timeshare properties. And based on the recent changes to DVC it may not be a safe assumption for much longer.

True but when something has a 50-year duration you want to at least know it's possible to off-load it if/when the dues become too much to handle. When they end up having something like 25-30 different DVC resorts, who's going to buy a contract from you which can be used at one specific site (and a random one like Riviera for that matter...)?

 

[ELMC]

True but when something has a 50-year duration you want to at least know it's possible to off-load it if/when the dues become too much to handle. When they end up having something like 25-30 different DVC resorts, who's going to buy a contract from you which can be used at one specific site (and a random one like Riviera for that matter...)?

I agree. I am typically very risk averse, but I allow myself to purchase DVC because I am confident in the resale potential when it no longer suits my needs. The recent shift in practice by Disney could affect that, and it will certainly affect my prospects of purchasing going forward. To expand this further, I thought DVC was overly expensive when BLT was $165 a point. Now $165 a point is a bargain, but only relative to the prices they are charging now. At what point does DVC price itself out of the marketplace?

 

[aoconnor]

And buying BCV direct? $225 a point with resale at $150 -- that's a $75 swing.
VGF? $80 swing.

Face the facts people -- if you're looking to buy direct -- for the vase majority of DVC properties -- you WILL BE PAYING ABOUT AN $80 difference.

This is true but the starting point is higher so the percentage loss is less. Buying VGF and BCV direct are both ~33% loss on resale. RIV would be a 47% loss going from $188 -> $100. Besides Aulani it's just out of the ordinary for a new resort. Depending on when in the direct sales process you bought CCV ($176-$188) it's like a 12-18% loss.

[I still bought a small direct VGF contract at the insane price recently.. just sayin' )

 

[Boomatt]

Just offered $50pp for 100 points at Riviera on Fidelity. They are asking $170pp... I will let everyone know if they accept my offer.

 

[Great3]

Just offered $50pp for 100 points at Riviera on Fidelity. They are asking $170pp... I will let everyone know if they accept my offer.

Good luck to you, and while I would like $50 / point Riviera contract too, for the seller's sake, I hope they aren't so desperate they will accept anything, because that means they are probably in financial ruins. Never wish that on anybody, and hope no one ever get to that point. But good luck to you nonetheless.

Great3

 

[Boomatt]

Good luck to you, and while I would like $50 / point Riviera contract too, for the seller's sake, I hope they aren't so desperate they will accept anything, because that means they are probably in financial ruins. Never wish that on anybody, and hope no one ever get to that point. But good luck to you nonetheless.

Great3

Not really expecting that they will accept nor am I hoping they do but, it’s worth a try. I don’t need any extra points but, I wouldn’t mind having some extras to put family up occasionally and wouldn’t care that they would be “stuck” at Riviera.

As far as the hypothetical moral qualm you laid out. If they are so desperate to sell it that they accept my offer then I would say that I helped them out by giving them an offer they would accept...

 

[mustinjourney]

Not really expecting that they will accept nor am I hoping they do but, it’s worth a try. I don’t need any extra points but, I wouldn’t mind having some extras to put family up occasionally and wouldn’t care that they would be “stuck” at Riviera.

As far as the hypothetical moral qualm you laid out. If they are so desperate to sell it that they accept my offer then I would say that I helped them out by giving them an offer they would accept...

I wonder if they financed the purchase. If so, they might not accept much below what they owe assuming they don’t have the cash on hand.

 

[Boomatt]

I wonder if they financed the purchase. If so, they might not accept much below what they owe assuming they don’t have the cash on hand.

Meh. I really doubt they will accept it and even if they did I can’t imagine that Disney wouldn’t ROFR it even though this resort is still very much for sale. It would be a PR nightmare for them if word got out that someone bought a resale for DRR at $50pp. I couldn’t imagine any current owner adding on direct there knowing that the resale value is in the gutter.

Still fun to try though. This contract has no 2019 points so the owner got to use it at least.

 

[Wakey]

If Riviera is a fantastic property, and we do not hit a recession, I predict resale will be about $90 a point when it settles down with plenty of supply. Could be $80. $100 seems to be pushing it to me. Resale buyers usually consult boards like these to learn about resale, they are usually educated buyers. Who after reading a thread like this would offer even $100?

 

[Wakey]

Just offered $50pp for 100 points at Riviera on Fidelity. They are asking $170pp... I will let everyone know if they accept my offer.

I will be interested to hear the reaction.

 

[Boomatt]

I will be interested to hear the reaction.

To be a fly on the wall when they see my offer. Lol

 

[Marionnette]

Still fun to try though. This contract has no 2019 points so the owner got to use it at least.

It’s a February UY. There are no Feb 2019 points for a resort that doesn’t open until December. The owner never got to use their DVC.

 

[Boomatt]

If Riviera is a fantastic property, and we do not hit a recession, I predict resale will be about $90 a point when it settles down with plenty of supply. Could be $80. $100 seems to be pushing it to me. Resale buyers usually consult boards like these to learn about resale, they are usually educated buyers. Who after reading a thread like this would offer even $100?

No matter how nice that one resort is I can’t see $80pp. Look at Wyndham Bonnett Creek. That’s a bleeping great resort. It’s on property for all intents and purposes and you can grab those point based timeshares for pennies on the dollar. The Wyndham system also has resorts worldwide that you can use those resale points at too.
The Riviera resale is like Whyndam Bonnet Creek with magical express, extra magic hours, 60day fastpass priority and less flexibility regarding where you can use those points. The price should be treated as such.
Please don’t get me wrong I LOVE what DVC has been up to this point but, these restrictions are going to harm the interests of their direct buyers as well as their members who buy through resale.
I know Disney would like all points to be bought through them but there would be a huge deficit in dues payments without all of the people who could only buy because of resale market pricing. I hope the sales of this resort go poorly because Disney needs to learn some gratitude towards ALL their members and stop the constant addition of restrictions.

It’s a February UY. There are no Feb 2019 points for a resort that doesn’t open until December. The owner never got to use their DVC.

How do you figure? Every other resort that has been declared has given the points of the use year it was sold for. Those points could be banked, used for a reservation at opening of the resort or to be used at the 7 month window at another resort.

Edit: I’m really asking. Not trying to be combative.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

No matter how nice that one resort is I can’t see $80pp. Look at Wyndham Bonnett Creek. That’s a bleeping great resort. It’s on property for all intents and purposes and you can grab those point based timeshares for pennies on the dollar. The Wyndham system also has resorts worldwide that you can use those resale points at too.
The Riviera resale is like Whyndam Bonnet Creek with magical express, extra magic hours, 60day fastpass priority and less flexibility regarding where you can use those points. The price should be treated as such.
Please don’t get me wrong I LOVE what DVC has been up to this point but, these restrictions are going to harm the interests of their direct buyers as well as their members who buy through resale.
I know Disney would like all points to be bought through them but there would be a huge deficit in dues payments without all of the people who could only buy because of resale market pricing. I hope the sales of this resort go poorly because Disney needs to learn some gratitude towards ALL their members and stop the constant addition of restrictions.

How do you figure? Every other resort that has been declared has given the points of the use year it was sold for. Those points could be banked, used for a reservation at opening of the resort or to be used at the 7 month window at another resort.

Edit: I’m really asking. Not trying to be combative.

Riviera points don't "exist" until December. They cannot be used to book any stay in advance of Riviera's opening.

 

[Boomatt]

Riviera points don't "exist" until December. They cannot be used to book any stay in advance of Riviera's opening.

I know BLT gave double points prior to opening.

https://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-program/financial/1190-double-points-in-first-year-with-purchase

 

[DougEMG]

Meh. I really doubt they will accept it and even if they did I can’t imagine that Disney wouldn’t ROFR it even though this resort is still very much for sale. It would be a PR nightmare for them if word got out that someone bought a resale for DRR at $50pp. I couldn’t imagine any current owner adding on direct there knowing that the resale value is in the gutter.

Still fun to try though. This contract has no 2019 points so the owner got to use it at least.

So $100/point isn't a problem!