First RIV resale contract sold for?

[DougEMG]

I don’t imagine they could do much much more than toe the company line. I would’ve enjoyed seeing that nonetheless.

They expressed concern over what I thought and said they would monitor how things developed at the resort. They were definitely surprised when I said a resale sold for $100 as I first asked them what they thought resale prices would be at and they though $160-$165.

 

[DougEMG]

And at what level are the executives, high enough to make a difference?

Can't remember them all, but one was a VP in charge of member services.

 

[Boomatt]

So $100/point isn't a problem!

$100pp is still a problem but $50pp is a “holy heck!!! I’m being sold a polished turd!!!” Problem on the direct buy end.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I know BLT gave double points prior to opening.

https://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-program/financial/1190-double-points-in-first-year-with-purchase

Still could not use them for any stay prior to open of BLT. Cannot trade with an association a resort is not a part of.

 

[DougEMG]

Thinking about this some more, I would also like to add that this is a timeshare we are talking about and it's not intentionally designed to have ANY resale value. As many have stated, the value of a timeshare is in its use and not its resale value. The fact that we can safely assume that it will have any resale value at all is specific to DVC and is not consistent with other timeshare properties. And based on the recent changes to DVC it may not be a safe assumption for much longer.

Which is why I would never buy a timeshare from someone else.

Realistically I am only going to get 10-15 more years of personal use out of DVC. So buying anything with a longer life would make absolutely no sense if I wasn't able to recoup some of the purchase cost. It would be more economically to just stay on cash.

My parting words to the dvc executives was the I loved dvc and did not want them to turn it into every other timeshare and it they did then I was out. They of course assured me they would never do that, but that really comes down to what they consider they key differences to be.

 

[Minniemoo15]

Which is why I would never buy a timeshare from someone else.

Realistically I am only going to get 10-15 more years of personal use out of DVC. So buying anything with a longer life would make absolutely no sense if I wasn't able to recoup some of the purchase cost. It would be more economically to just stay on cash.

My parting words to the dvc executives was the I loved dvc and did not want them to turn it into every other timeshare and it they did then I was out. They of course assured me they would never do that, but that really comes down to what they consider they key differences to be.

Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns. As a post 1/19 resale owner - I appreciate it ! I sent my concerns in via email, but I obviously knew what I was getting into when I purchased so I feel it holds more weight coming from a longtime owner.

 

[Marionnette]

How do you figure? Every other resort that has been declared has given the points of the use year it was sold for. Those points could be banked, used for a reservation at opening of the resort or to be used at the 7 month window at another resort.

Edit: I’m really asking. Not trying to be combative.

Riviera buyers with a Feb. UY did not receive 2019 points. Possibly because the declaration and subsequent sale of interests in Riviera did not occur until March, 2019 but no one knows the true reason.

 

[Noah_t]

Yes the person that bought it was the owner of the brokerage firm that listed the contract. Apparently he is a known flipper.

If true this is pretty greasy. The actions of these few bad apples are what give realtors and all people in sales such a bad name.

 

[Boomatt]

If true this is pretty greasy. The actions of these few bad apples are what give realtors and all people in sales such a bad name.

Someone with a financial interest beyond the value of owning/using the contract gets to set the rate?! He has an interest in propping up the market price due to the commissions his business would get.
Let a user of the points set the market. I say starting low and working your way to the REAL market price is the only right way to find what the real value of this new type of resale is. Start low, get denied, go up, get denied, go up ... eventually get accepted. That’s how this type of transaction works in order to determine value.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I know BLT gave double points prior to opening.

https://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-program/financial/1190-double-points-in-first-year-with-purchase

No, that was not double points. That was just the time when someone in marketing decided to start stating that. It was the same old when you purchase you receive current points. It pops up with guides now and then still. The article was written in Feb 2010. The "promo" lasted until Feb 28th - just prior to the start of the March 2010 UY. So March was still in it's 2009 UY meaning the 2009 points were current. It's no different than now for resorts that are currently open which BLT was by that time. And it was a written approval to bank the points even though it was past the banking deadline. At the time you often had to make it a condition of the sale but it would be done. Now it's formally allowed.

 

[Lumpy1106]

OK, I feel like a total newbie here and I should know this; are Riviera resale contracts good at ONLY Riviera or will they be good at Riviera and all future resorts (Reflections etc.). My understanding is Riviera ONLY. If its RIV only, that's a deal breaker. RIV and beyond starts to look pretty good in 2043, especially if Disney just refurbs and resells the 2042 resorts.

The dues on RIV are a total deal breaker too - but that's for another post.

 

[Marionnette]

OK, I feel like a total newbie here and I should know this; are Riviera resale contracts good at ONLY Riviera or will they be good at Riviera and all future resorts (Reflections etc.). My understanding is Riviera ONLY. If its RIV only, that's a deal breaker. RIV and beyond starts to look pretty good in 2043, especially if Disney just refurbs and resells the 2042 resorts.

The dues on RIV are a total deal breaker too - but that's for another post.

Resale points at RIV are only good at RIV.

The dues are high, but I expect the L14 resorts to see another big jump in 2020 which will bring RIV more in line with the rest of the WDW resorts.

 

[Lumpy1106]

Resale points at RIV are only good at RIV.

The dues are high, but I expect the L14 resorts to see another big jump in 2020 which will bring RIV more in line with the rest of the WDW resorts.

Why would dues @ L14 jump again? Aren't dues tied to actual expenses?

 

[Bing Showei]

Why would dues @ L14 jump again? Aren't dues tied to actual expenses?

Wage increases are being implemented in annual increases. The first increase brought all employees making less than $11/hour up to $11/hour. This was reflected in part in the 2019 dues. The single dollar incremental increases are due to continue through 2021 when wages will reach $15/hour minimum.

Years subsequent to the first increase will see rises as well, but they are projected to be less than what we saw for 2019.

 

[BWoody]

Well, looks like there is a pending sale on one of the Riviera contracts on Fidelity now. Hopefully we will find out the details on that one soon.

 

[RaymOOOnd]

Wage increases are being implemented in annual increases. The first increase brought all employees making less than $11/hour up to $11/hour. This was reflected in part in the 2019 dues. The single dollar incremental increases are due to continue through 2021 when wages will reach $15/hour minimum.

Years subsequent to the first increase will see rises as well, but they are projected to be less than what we saw for 2019.

Time to put our money where our progressive mouths are.

 

[summerw]

Agree that thinking that Riviera will behave the same as other the original DVCs would be a mistake. Availability and resale value both have the potential to be greatly impacted in a negative manner with this resale restriction. At the last midnight magic I was at, I spend 30 minutes with 3 executives discussing with them why I thought they were making a mistake with the new resale restrictions.

Were they DVC execs or park execs? I would hope DVC execs would be tracking things like resales on their new resort.


_________

We will know a little more when the Skyliner opens next month and a lot more when Riviera opens in December. I'm also curios to see the next round of sales numbers.

It's very interesting how polarizing this resort is. I'm sure Disney counted on people being upset at the restrictions. I wonder if they realized how much people would focus that on the resort itself. I agree with what Pete said that this resort had better deliver what they are touting. If it doesn't have exceptional service, food, decor, shopping, etc, I don't see it boding well for direct sales, let alone resale. Having purchased 100 points myself, of course I'm rooting for it to be everything they say.

 

[Boomatt]

They declined my offer for $50 PP.

 

[Miffy]

I'm not a DVC owner but I read a lot of these DVC threads, and the impression I'm left with is that Disney wants to seriously limit the number of DVC resale buyers. The newest restrictions make resale contracts that much less attractive, even though for the buyer the cost per point is lower than buying direct--and the new restrictions also lead one to believe that more restrictions are in the works since they keep accumulating--and escalating. What if DVC eliminates free parking at the resort if your contract is resale? Or changes the booking window for resale purchases? Or . . . or . . . or . . . the list is endless.

I can't believe that a large number of DVC purchasers don't seriously consider the resale value, no matter how Disney-starry-eyed they are when they make their purchase. This is a huge investment and a continuing expense (MF). And it's completely optional, unlike buying a car, for example, which is another pretty big investment with continuing expenses that has not-great resale value. But people need their cars. They don't need DVC. And having to sell one's contract in the future is an obvious possibility. Life events occur. Things happen. Tastes change.

The more resale restrictions there are, the less attractive buying at all seems to me. If I were to buy resale, there'd be all the restrictions that're currently in place, and if I wanted to sell down the line, there could possibly be even more restrictions by then, making it difficult or impossible to break even on my initial purchase. If I were to buy direct, I would've spent even more money on the points only to be in the exact same situation if I wanted/needed to sell them.

I guess what I'm saying is that it actually seems like a bad business idea for DVC to impose so many resale restrictions, since how can this not hurt direct sales?

Although of course I could be completely wrong about this. Maybe buyers don't think about this kind of stuff and it just seems like they might to me, since when I buy something that costs what DVC costs, I give it a lot of thought and consideration.

BTW, I'm a regular WDW visitor but I never bought DVC because it just doesn't fit either my budget, my mindset, or my vacation style. But I totally understand why people bought in the past. Why people are buying now, though, is kind of a mystery to me.

 

[ChimneyJim]

They declined my offer for $50 PP.

Do I hear $55?