First RIV resale contract sold for?

Well, I am sure they are going to get a bunch of low-ball offers, until the find out they are probably not going to get the price they are expecting, and/or hoping for. So I expect it will sit for a while, unless there's really one person willing to pay above $100 a point for it.

Great3
 
The whole $50/pt came from an emotionally charged person who said they wouldn't even buy at $50 a point and I called them out that not buying at $50/pt would be insane.

I don't make speculative real estate investments as a financial strategy. I do invest and have done very well, but a timeshare? In Florida? During Global Warming? With a recession on the way? I have better places for my money to go.
 


Lol, I thought about it but I was afraid that they might accept the offer and I just don’t see the points to be worth more than $50pp with the restrictions... And I’m not that big of a bodily orifice... most of the time.

I think your offer price is quite fair to the actual value of a resale contract there, yet there's no chance of one getting accepted that low this early. Reason being, think why someone would be selling before the place even opens...the answer is clearly that they bought with a loan and then reality of affordability set in, they lost their job, etcetera. In other words, they still owe 90% of their purchase price and can't afford the payments.

If the options to them are to have Disney foreclose because they don't make the loan payments and lose the 10% down they already paid ($20/point including the closing), or to actually sell it to you at $50 and have to bring the difference between sale price and loan owed to the closing table (another $108/point), then in pretty much every case they are just going to refuse your offer, walk away, and let Disney foreclose.

My point being, I think $50 is a very realistic long term resale price for Riviera. We just won't get there for a few years because most everyone looking to sell very early will be doing so because they can't afford their loans. Those same folks will never choose to bring massive $ to closing to get out, when they know they can just walk away.
 


I'm not a DVC owner but I read a lot of these DVC threads, and the impression I'm left with is that Disney wants to seriously limit the number of DVC resale buyers. The newest restrictions make resale contracts that much less attractive, even though for the buyer the cost per point is lower than buying direct--and the new restrictions also lead one to believe that more restrictions are in the works since they keep accumulating--and escalating. What if DVC eliminates free parking at the resort if your contract is resale? Or changes the booking window for resale purchases? Or . . . or . . . or . . . the list is endless.

I can't believe that a large number of DVC purchasers don't seriously consider the resale value, no matter how Disney-starry-eyed they are when they make their purchase. This is a huge investment and a continuing expense (MF). And it's completely optional, unlike buying a car, for example, which is another pretty big investment with continuing expenses that has not-great resale value. But people need their cars. They don't need DVC. And having to sell one's contract in the future is an obvious possibility. Life events occur. Things happen. Tastes change.

The more resale restrictions there are, the less attractive buying at all seems to me. If I were to buy resale, there'd be all the restrictions that're currently in place, and if I wanted to sell down the line, there could possibly be even more restrictions by then, making it difficult or impossible to break even on my initial purchase. If I were to buy direct, I would've spent even more money on the points only to be in the exact same situation if I wanted/needed to sell them.

I guess what I'm saying is that it actually seems like a bad business idea for DVC to impose so many resale restrictions, since how can this not hurt direct sales?

Although of course I could be completely wrong about this. Maybe buyers don't think about this kind of stuff and it just seems like they might to me, since when I buy something that costs what DVC costs, I give it a lot of thought and consideration.

BTW, I'm a regular WDW visitor but I never bought DVC because it just doesn't fit either my budget, my mindset, or my vacation style. But I totally understand why people bought in the past. Why people are buying now, though, is kind of a mystery to me.

We bought Riviera direct because it gives us a full 50 years of use and we are relatively young.

A few people have mentioned this but the point of DVC (and thus timeshares) is to extract value out of the savings on accommodations. I invest in all sorts of things but DVC isn't one of them. If in 15 years my points are only worth 50-60% of the value, then I still had 15 years of significant savings.

Of course as the original 14 start to fall off the book, future DVC resale owners will look at 1 resort booking as the normal. They will also likely realize that having significant savings at one resort is still better than paying hotel rates for comparable properties.
 
A few people have mentioned this but the point of DVC (and thus timeshares) is to extract value out of the savings on accommodations. I invest in all sorts of things but DVC isn't one of them. If in 15 years my points are only worth 50-60% of the value, then I still had 15 years of significant savings.

I agree with your thinking and it has been said many times in these forums. But the problem with putting on new restrictions is that there will be consequences to the current owners. These are consequences that I can't just say "oh well, a normal timeshare would have been worth $1 at resell, so I'm lucky that DVC is worth $2 now."

I bought DVC for the love of Disney and am grateful to be able to stay at deluxe accommodations on the cheap. I also bought it knowing that if tough times do hit (God forbid!), DVC does retain a good value. Otherwise, I would have chosen an offsite timeshare or may not have bought into one at all. This is what fiscally responsible people do before spending a bulk of money.

It's like the difference of buying a regular car and a collectible. I expect a regular car to depreciate through the years to a measly amount. But an expensive collectible should appreciate in its value. DVC is that "collectible." So to see it being slowly downgraded to a regular car after I've bought a collectible is a bit infuriating.
 
It's like the difference of buying a regular car and a collectible. I expect a regular car to depreciate through the years to a measly amount. But an expensive collectible should appreciate in its value. DVC is that "collectible." So to see it being slowly downgraded to a regular car after I've bought a collectible is a bit infuriating.
I share your frustration, but a Disney timeshare was never the "collectible" equivalent.

Perhaps in 1991, there really was the intent of establishing a club and a new model for timeshare ownership, but if the last several years have demonstrated anything, "industry standard" is the new bar. And this latest regime has made it so explicitly clear that the only people they want making money off of their timeshare product is The Walt Disney Company.

I know a lot of people don't believe Disney can legally take away the ability to rent points out, or change the ability to trade within the L14, but given what they have done with the new resale restrictions and how ownership at the new resorts function, I don't see shutting down the ability to rent or trade on resale contracts further as far fetched as I may have just two years ago.

While marketing continues to tell a compelling story, with its fun verbiage around "owners," and "clubs" and for all their "welcome home" business, Disney's timeshare is and has always been first and foremost, a timeshare. When you look at the POS that is exactly what we signed up for. The promise to pay to keep the lights on for the next 23 plus years. That's all.
 
So, current dvc owners wouldn't like a money making opportunity......interesting. And I thought my kids were the only know-it-alls. Oh well.

The point for many of us is that this is the first resort with restrictions and no one really knows what that means. The cost of DVC is the MFs over time and not the initial buy in. So yes, the $50 resale sounds like a money maker but in reality, the market will be geared towards those that want to stay there because they will be locked in.

To me, that is a very different product then the DVC those of us responding own and thus, cost aside, doesn’t make sense. I would never invest money in RIV since I don’t want to stay there, even at $50. Why? Because once owned, I wold have to pay some MFs and closing costs and then to sell pay a broker commission. The other aspect is you are assuming Disney would allow it to sell that low. With RoFR I would doubt it would happen anytime in near future. We don’t even know if the one bought for $100 will clear Disney.

Now, if my children decided they loved that resort and wanted to stay there, then I would consider a purchase but that is because I have 800 points now to use everywhere else.

Last, if someone is offering it for $50/point..or even $75...it would mean they tried to sell it for more and couldn’t and lowered price that low to just sell. Market will dictate its worth. And if most contracts sell for more than that...your thought in being able to flip...then there would be no logical sense for anyone to sell for that price to begin with.

It’s thise details, IMO, that many of us who own DVC and have done buying and selling, are using in our reasoning for not buying DVC for such a low price.
 
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The point for many of us is that this is the first resort with restrictions and no one really knows what that means. The cost of DVC is the MFs over time and not the initial buy in. So yes, the $50 resale sounds like a money maker but in reality, the market will be geared towards those that want to stay there because they will be locked in.

To me, that is a very different product then the DVC those of us responding own and thus, cost aside, doesn’t make sense. I would never invest money in RIV since I don’t want to stay there, even at $50. Why? Because once owned, I wold have to pay some MFs and closing costs and then to sell pay a broker commission. The other aspect is you are assuming Disney would allow it to sell that low. With RoFR I would doubt it would happen anytime in near future. We don’t even know if the one bought for $100 will clear Disney.

Now, if my children decided they loved that resort and wanted to stay there, then I would consider a purchase but that is because I have 800 points now to use everywhere else.

Last, if someone is offering it for $50/point..or even $75...it would mean they tried to sell it for more and couldn’t and lowered price that low to just sell. Market will dictate its worth. And if most contracts sell for more than that...your thought in being able to flip...then there would be no logical sense for anyone to sell for that price to begin with.

It’s thise details, IMO, that many of us who own DVC and have done buying and selling, are using in our reasoning for not buying DVC for such a low price.
Agreed. To add, one of the biggest arguments against using point rental as the next best alternative comparison to owning is the lack of flexibility that comes with renting a reservation vs. being an owner and controlling the reservation. I think the resale restrictions on Riviera are equal in magnitude to the lack of flexibility that comes from renting, so we finally have a level playing field for the comparison. So with that said, even assuming a $50 entry cost, which I agree is far fetched, that would still be a 6-8 year break even when compared to renting points based on Riviera's high starting dues level. $75 sale price extends that out to 9-10 years and even a $100 sale price extends it out even further to 12-14 years. That's rough.

I know I'm sounding a little old man/get off my lawn lately, but running that risk I'll say it again...DVC is a great product that has simply gotten too expensive.

Now get off my lawn you kids! :)
 
While marketing continues to tell a compelling story, with its fun verbiage around "owners," and "clubs" and for all their "welcome home" business, Disney's timeshare is and has always been first and foremost, a timeshare. When you look at the POS that is exactly what we signed up for. The promise to pay to keep the lights on for the next 23 plus years. That's all.
We have been saying this on here for as far back as I can remember, with limited success. It seems that the recent changes have gotten people to realize this a little more. That's kind of sad in a way. Maybe it's better if we simply continue to suspend our disbelief.
 
If you're talking about the first RIV listing, it did. Passed and closed. Contract was recorded on 8/7/19...

Wow! I guess we have a better idea of the start of the resale market for the resort...thanks for confirming!
 
They expressed concern over what I thought and said they would monitor how things developed at the resort. They were definitely surprised when I said a resale sold for $100 as I first asked them what they thought resale prices would be at and they though $160-$165.
Wish I could’ve witnessed this exchange!
 
I think what's going to happen, and what DVC execs are counting on, is that the ability to use a resale contract at many different resorts will become a distant memory as old resorts approach expiration, additional new resorts open, and so on. Resale prices will probably rise despite the restrictions because nobody will have our old reference point in mind, i.e. how we used to sleep around with a second-hand contract. People will give no second thought to not being able to stay at another resort (i.e. "oh of course we can't use it for that"), and the transition toward a normal/typical timeshare will be complete.

In that light it might be a nice deal (relatively speaking, imagining that you're looking back 15 years from now) to pick up a resale Riviera or Reflections contract on the cheap. "Nice deal" being relative to future climate, of course, not relative to the good old DVC days.
 

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