Have any other DVC owners lost their points because of Disney's closures?

I guess I should have been more clear. I AM impacted by these emergency measures. I have a reservation for 4/18 and I have a June use year. With how the policy is stated on the website I will lose my points when dvc cancels my reservation.

I do have an issue with having to basically eat my points and see others with borrowed points made whole.


I am in the same boat! I booked our trip the day that my window opened up. We gifted our boys tickets to the Monster Truck World Finals as well as park tickets to Disney for Christmas. The World Finals is cancelled and the parks and hotels are closed and will remain so indefinitely. We are past our banking deadline and our points will expire before the parks ever open back up. So because I "took a chance" and waited until the end of our UY to use our points we will end up being screwed and losing them if there is no solution. That's a bitter pill to swallow. I just want the option to be able to rebook for a different time this year. Even if they gave everyone the ability to bank their points or extend the UY we all know the risks of booking - if there is nothing available there is nothing available. You may have to waitlist, but at least it's not a total loss unless you snooze you lose. That to me is acceptable rather than losing everything
 
Other than the Walt Disney Co. (I know they aren't legally on the hook) opening their pockets and providing their inventory or hotel inventory in order to avoid bad PR, I'm not sure how they can make this right under the real estate contracts. If they just extend points into the future, there will be a shortage of inventory, which is already hard to come by.
 
I know that it’s a bitter pill to swallow but as some have stated if you book a trip at the very end of you UY this is one of the risks. Nobody me including never thought of this risk as parks and resorts haven’t closed like this before. Not even during a hurricane.

Btw does anyone know What DVC course of action was previously for members if there was a hurricane and members used points for a stay that would expire shortly after?

I have rented a reservation in May using my June UY points. So I therefore expect to be impacted too.

After reading all the posts in this thread I’m sorry to say it seems that more members don’t fully understand how a UY works in terms of usage dates.

If the solution that DVC comes up with for expiring pointS will worsen the availability problem for years to come, then I frankly would rather lose the points.


If DVC comes up with any solution other than members should say goodbye to expiring points I’m gonna eat my hat on that we will either see on the same time or later this year that banking and maybe borrowing point in 2021,2022 and maybe also 2023 will not be allowed.

IMO rules are rules and should not be bend even though that it might hurt. Now they bend them some but I honestly don’t think they should allow for expiring points to get extended into another year.
 
Personally I think the best solution - which I believe I read about in an adjacent thread - would seem to be the fact that the prices for non-home resort stays can be higher than those charged to home resort guests. They need to find a way to suck the surplus points out of the system faster.

Or maybe give unused points a nominal cash value which can then be offset against the fees next year??? After all, a protracted closure will have a modest impact on the running costs. Apartment wear and tear won't be happening and staff head counts are down.

I really do think that a section of people caught out by this will be pushed to sell. Once you strip out the annual dues and the lack of DDP-type offers (both of which have grown since we bought our contract), DVC isn't the sweet spot it used to be.
 


Personally I think the best solution - which I believe I read about in an adjacent thread - would seem to be the fact that the prices for non-home resort stays can be higher than those charged to home resort guests. They need to find a way to suck the surplus points out of the system faster.

Or maybe give unused points a nominal cash value which can then be offset against the fees next year??? After all, a protracted closure will have a modest impact on the running costs. Apartment wear and tear won't be happening and staff head counts are down.

I really do think that a section of people caught out by this will be pushed to sell. Once you strip out the annual dues and the lack of DDP-type offers (both of which have grown since we bought our contract), DVC isn't the sweet spot it used to be.

Whatever DVC decides far from everyone will agree that it’s the best solution.

IMO buying a DVC contract is well worth it if you compare to the rack rates even with a deduction of 30%

As long as Disney increases their rack rates it will be worth it. If it goes the other way then at some point not so much.
 
I think most of the proposals I’ve seen so far involve Disney eating the costs vs the owners , hard to imagine this happening. The best hope for that happening is what a previous poster said - Disney spending this money (whether in the form of discounted resort stays/tickets, Or opening up inventory at riviera prior to sale) to protect their brand and future timeshare sales - right or wrong that is the most leverage owners have in these times.
 
Yes. Using the points at end of use year is a risk. In normal times if you cancel your reservation and can’t rebook by end of use year you lose the points. I do think we understand that. But This is not a normal time. DVC closed the resort and is canceling reservations due to a pandemic.

Dvc has made a decision to make exceptions for some owners and not others.

And for those of you who say the rules shouldn’t be bent. Ok. That would actually be more equitable. The exception for borrowed points to have been unborrowed shouldn’t have been made. If the rules are the rules then the rules are the rules. The normal rules state that borrowing is a final transaction.

The system is going to be impacted by the unborrowing exceptions much more than it would if it just allowed a two month extension of the banking deadline. Keep in mind that there were already likely many points banked into the next year. Now the additional stress of the unborrowed points will negatively affect us all for years to come.

It is only two use years that are being told that we need to use or lose by our use year end...when there is no ability to use.

This is a DVC membership issue. The risk of ownership during this abnormal time is not being borne by all members. It shouldn’t be that members with reservations specific to two use months should just sacrifice their points for the good of the membership.
 


There is precedent for “unborrowing” points but not allowing re-banking of points into a second year. In past hurricane situations, MS did bank points after the banking deadline during Irma but could not permit banked points to be banked again. The difference being that the resorts remained open during the hurricanes and DVC likely moved inventory to the resorts division to allow locals and CMs to book for riding out the storm.

This is a post from Sept 2017, when Irma struck.

This is what I received today - and I did not use as many banked points (totally expires dec 2017) as I thought I had so that's the good news, but bad news is that I will lose those 70 points b/c there is no availability between now and dec 1 other than a day here/there. I don't think I could even put together split stays. If we were to try, we would need to stay at least 4 days to be worth the trip and I don't want to stay in 4 different places.

from MS:
We appreciate your interest in your Vacation Points and we will be happy
to answer your question! Between both reservations, you are using 70
Banked Vacation Points and 133 Vacation Points. The 70 Banked Vacation
Points would have to be used toward a reservation as long as you
complete your travel by December 1, 2017 or they will expire. If a
Hurricane Warning is issued for the Orlando Area or in your area, we can
bank the 133 Vacation Points to your December 2017 Use Year for you.
 
Other than the Walt Disney Co. (I know they aren't legally on the hook) opening their pockets and providing their inventory or hotel inventory in order to avoid bad PR, I'm not sure how they can make this right under the real estate contracts. If they just extend points into the future, there will be a shortage of inventory, which is already hard to come by.

This is what I was thinking last night. They have to find a way to deal with this in line with Florida Timeshare laws, which can’t be an easy or quick task,

In terms of Disney, DVC may be trying to work out something with the company to help those whose points expired, and given the situation they are in, that type of negotiation would also take time, if they can get something worked out,

I do wonder if these reasons could be playing a role?

I also wonder if they are trying to come up with a consistent plan so that any adjusting of banking rules, or other solutions apply to all points that will be ultimately effected
 
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<snip> There is precedent for “unborrowing” points but not allowing re-banking of points into a second year. </snip>

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say. No one has ever been allowed to bank points a second year, and as far as I know, a lot less people are griping about that. Most of us are complaining because these are current UY points that cannot be banked for 1/3 of the year for anybody and are used for reservations in that period.

There most certainly is precedent for banking current UY points after banking deadlines. It obviously doesn't violate any policy in the legal agreement presented for DVC to FL timeshare authorities because they do it every day when they sell contracts that are past their "banking deadline." There's also the "one time courtesy" bank that everybody supposedly gets, and is well documented that a lot of people have actually gotten twice. Maybe more.

It is more than reasonable to assume that they bank past deadline points every single day. Probably lots of them.
 
I know that it’s a bitter pill to swallow but as some have stated if you book a trip at the very end of you UY this is one of the risks. Nobody me including never thought of this risk as parks and resorts haven’t closed like this before. Not even during a hurricane.

Btw does anyone know What DVC course of action was previously for members if there was a hurricane and members used points for a stay that would expire shortly after?

I have rented a reservation in May using my June UY points. So I therefore expect to be impacted too.

After reading all the posts in this thread I’m sorry to say it seems that more members don’t fully understand how a UY works in terms of usage dates.

If the solution that DVC comes up with for expiring pointS will worsen the availability problem for years to come, then I frankly would rather lose the points.


If DVC comes up with any solution other than members should say goodbye to expiring points I’m gonna eat my hat on that we will either see on the same time or later this year that banking and maybe borrowing point in 2021,2022 and maybe also 2023 will not be allowed.

IMO rules are rules and should not be bend even though that it might hurt. Now they bend them some but I honestly don’t think they should allow for expiring points to get extended into another year.

I agree with the above. I can't even book my own resort at 11 months now with all the walkers as my use year limits when 'i' can start walking. At 11 months I didn't get everything I wanted and I'm still waiting for the waitlist to fill in a day. Meanwhile owners whose main activity is speculative renting probably have that day locked up.

I can see part of the solution going forward will be to not allow banking or borrowing or at least one of the two. It may be the only way to get the system back in check, if a solution is found to help owners who lost personal vacations. I'm not so sorry for people who lost rentals.
 
Borrowing and banking is the balance in the system. It's why banking works. Now you're (DVC) rewarding those who chose to borrow points by choice and putting them back and penalizing those of us past our banking window who had no choice at all in order to travel fully 1/3 of the year.

Yeah. That's fair.
 
I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say. No one has ever been allowed to bank points a second year, and as far as I know, a lot less people are griping about that. Most of us are complaining because these are current UY points that cannot be banked for 1/3 of the year for anybody and are used for reservations in that period.

There most certainly is precedent for banking current UY points after banking deadlines. It obviously doesn't violate any policy in the legal agreement presented for DVC to FL timeshare authorities because they do it every day when they sell contracts that are past their "banking deadline." There's also the "one time courtesy" bank that everybody supposedly gets, and is well documented that a lot of people have actually gotten twice. Maybe more.

It is more than reasonable to assume that they bank past deadline points every single day. Probably lots of them.
Did I say anything to the contrary? I was specifically addressing those who are upset about not being able to re-bank their points.
 
Did I say anything to the contrary? I was specifically addressing those who are upset about not being able to re-bank their points.

I guess not. I was just clarifying my stance on banking exceptions. I wasn't and still am not sure what "re-bank" means. I've never hear that term used before.
 
I guess not. I was just clarifying my stance on banking exceptions. I wasn't and still am not sure what "re-bank" means. I've never hear that term used before.

If you have an April or June or almost any use year for that matter, and banked 2018 points into 2019 and they are now not usable or have a short shelf life even if the parks reopen ie my October use year, asking to bank them into 2020 is a rebank or using the banking function twice. I have points like that, as do many people. I booked a small reservation with mine but expect it will go bad, just like yours.

If it opens up later rather than sooner, it will impact many people, not just the month and a half's worth that are suffering now. The resorts actually have to open to access this damage fully.

Borrowing and unborrowing are different in that it's a reversal of the process versus doing the same thing twice and affecting 3 use years.

No one wants to unbank - for obvious reasons.
 
Banking and borrowing work because they are the balance in the system. Borrowed points can't be put back. Banked points can't be put back. Balance (or near I suspect).

Borrowed points were a choice and are being put back carte blanche. Current UY points used past an arbitrary 8 month window in their current UY are used by anyone traveling fully 1/3 of the calendar year and are (currently) not being allowed to be banked when those people had no choice.

In no court of arbitration in the world where I would sit would that be considered the right thing to do. As a matter of fact, exactly the opposite is what should have been done. Our points are expiring. Borrowed points can still be used for the duration of their current UY. What they did defies all logic. Period.
 
Yes. Using the points at end of use year is a risk. In normal times if you cancel your reservation and can’t rebook by end of use year you lose the points. I do think we understand that. But This is not a normal time. DVC closed the resort and is canceling reservations due to a pandemic.

Dvc has made a decision to make exceptions for some owners and not others.

And for those of you who say the rules shouldn’t be bent. Ok. That would actually be more equitable. The exception for borrowed points to have been unborrowed shouldn’t have been made. If the rules are the rules then the rules are the rules. The normal rules state that borrowing is a final transaction.

The system is going to be impacted by the unborrowing exceptions much more than it would if it just allowed a two month extension of the banking deadline. Keep in mind that there were already likely many points banked into the next year. Now the additional stress of the unborrowed points will negatively affect us all for years to come.

It is only two use years that are being told that we need to use or lose by our use year end...when there is no ability to use.

This is a DVC membership issue. The risk of ownership during this abnormal time is not being borne by all members. It shouldn’t be that members with reservations specific to two use months should just sacrifice their points for the good of the membership.

I do want to just add that the temporary change doesn’t have to do with some members vs other members,

It has to do with the type of points and how they work within the system. I know this may seem petty, but I think it is important piece to understand why they could make the borrowing choice quickly, while needing time to figure out the banking and expiring points one.

Blue card vs white card is a decision that treats members differently. This is about making sure that if they can legally find a way to allow banked points to be used beyond their deadline, that the system can handle that,,,and remember, we are not privy to how many points that is. Absorbing 10k is a lot different than 300k and a plan that could work for a 2 week closure is not going to work for 6 to 10 weeks,

I think the fact that they have said they are trying to work it out is a good sign, because they could simply had said we can’t change it.

a
 
Another thing that DVC really needs to at least Have in mind is the “2nd wave”

Many scientists believe that we will see a 2nd wave and maybe a 3rd wave too. The 2nd wave will come later this year.

If the past experience is any guide for how this virus will behave then the 2nd wave will be even more deadly than the first wave we are currently seeing.

In the past we had:

the Spanish flu 1918, second wave was most deadly.
the Asian flu 1957, first wave most deadly
The Hong Kong flu 1968, 2nd wave most deadly
The swine flu H1N1 2009, 2nd wave most deadly at least in the U.S

The current pandemic is not a flu as the others above but a virus, will that make a difference? - only time will tell.

IF we have A 2nd wave how will DVC deal with that, if they allow exceptions NOW and we see a 2nd wave which is much much worse than the 1st then they are bound to do it again both decisions will impact the membership greatly.

DVC really only have 1 choice and that is to keep the banking policy in place as ANY other decision now or even in 3 months from now is prematurely. DVC needs to wait until they fully understand the impact that the virus will cause and they won’t for a long time.
 
Borrowing and banking is the balance in the system. It's why banking works. Now you're (DVC) rewarding those who chose to borrow points by choice and putting them back and penalizing those of us past our banking window who had no choice at all in order to travel fully 1/3 of the year.

Yeah. That's fair.

This is what I think is the frustrating part in this and I understand it’s easy to think it’s about members who made one decision that is allowed and getting lucky and others who made a different decision that is allowed and are being penalized.

But, it’s not about that at all, It is about the points themselves and inventory they are assigned to. Borrowed points are for the future.

Think of it this way, By putting borrowed back into the UY they came from, those points are now going to be used for rooms they are slated for, It then opens up rooms in the current UY for those with expiring points to use...the rooms banked 2018 and 2019 UY points are attached to,

For example, I had borrowed points returned to my Aug 2020 UY and now booked them in October. If they were not returned, I would have used them in July, competing with the banked 2018 UY points that HAVE to be used then,

Yes, it seems like I get a benefit but in reality, all those borrowed points would have then be competing for the same rooms as the banked points or those beyond their deadline,

It really is a move to spread out the points to increase short term availability for people who may have points that can not be used in the future.

I am not saying it makes it any easier to swallow the pill, but it is important to understand how one decision helps and the other, right now, would not. Which is why they have to have time to try and figure it out.

I will also add it’s why i am expecting the suspension of banking and borrowing at the end of this,
 
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