Marathon Weekend 2020

[PaDisneyCouple]

Something I thought I'd seen for MW in the past that seems missing from the designs: the bib numbers on the characters seemed to correspond to the race distance in the past. Always looked like a nice touch, and attention to detail.

Of course, rD has time to tweak the designs "based on guest feedback".

 

[Dis5150]

These updates did increase my FOMO. When I got into NYC this year we agreed that 2021 would be my Dopey year (with family members joining different races with me). But now I'm consider Goofy this year. Is it crazy to do two marathons about 3 months apart? Southwest releases their schedule next month and I have more than enough miles for the wife and I to fly down. If I can get an economy resort for around $130/night this could be (in Disney terms) a not too expensive fun weekend without kids when it is cold at home. Ugh, I think I am crazy.

In 2017 I did Dopey in January, Little Rock Marathon in March then Silo District Marathon in May. I think I had 7 week training plans in between each? So not crazy. But I am not a fast runner. I did PR Little Rock though.

I was. holding out but then asked a friend a run disney ..they told me they expect the Dopey to see out within the next few weeks!

I don't know if I buy this but I guess if it does that would make my decision for me.

 

[PrincessV]

Something I thought I'd seen for MW in the past that seems missing from the designs: the bib numbers on the characters seemed to correspond to the race distance in the past.

I noticed the blank bibs, too. Between that and the weirdness with park logos, the themes feel half-baked. Like, this is the point in a project at which I'd offer our initial draft of designs to a client for input before going back in to make changes based on their feedback. But I somehow doubt rD is looking for much feedback from us, lol!

 

[Princess KP]

Shirt colors depend on Champion's catalogue

They better be Champion shirts!

 

[Jason Bryer]

Thanks everyone for the feedback/encouragement on running two marathons close together. For some of you, 3 months is a long time between races, just wow! Let's see what is harder, doing two marathons close together or convincing the wife to go along with this plan!?

 

[BikeFan]

I was. holding out but then asked a friend a run disney ..they told me they expect the Dopey to sell out within the next few weeks!

Maybe I better get going on the sign-up then!

 

[DopeyBadger]

I ran my first 10K earlier this month (part of the Title 9 Mermaid run series) and finished with a time just under 1:02. It was officially chip timed, with results posted at raceroster and on their event site, but I don’t think USATF certified, because I assume if it was, the event site would specifically say that. I have seen some conflicting statements about whether that matters, even though the rundisney site says it. I did submit the POT info and link to the race results when I registered.

I am *not* looking to be super focused on time at Disney — it will only be my second ever half marathon (first one late this year!) and, well, it’s Disney, it’s about the fun. But I would like to have an appropriate corral so I’m potentially around similarly paced folks to some extent, to make it a little smoother. How important do you think it is that I hunt down a USATF race? If important, this may be a dumb question but how do I even find one?

First, Welcome! The POT guidelines do NOT specify that a USATF cert is needed. (They don't even specifically say that it has to be chip timed). Here's what they say (from the RD website under Race Policies)

"We do not accept relays, self-timed, training, trail runs or virtual runs as proof of time. Proof of time must be provided by the participant for each individual race from an officially timed 10K, 12K, 15K, 10-Mile, Half Marathon or Marathon race reflecting results within the last 2 years.

If you submit a proof of time from a race distance other than a Half Marathon or Marathon, an industry standard calculation will be applied to equate your finish time. A valid proof of time provided at the time of registration must include the following: Name of Race, Distance, City, State, Date, Finish time, Link to Results."

But as a matter of interest, here is a link to the USATF web site where you can search for races.

http://www.usatf.org/calendars/index.asp

@Jlk603

There are two places where POT is explained on the Marathon Weekend tab. One at "Race Policies" that doesn't state anything about USATF cert. and the other when you click on the "Events", choose HM or M, and scroll down to POT requirements. This second one does say "USATF" oddly enough.

Race Policies - No USATF



Events - USATF certified is listed



If you're concerned @Jlk603 , feel free to email trackshack about it (they are fairly responsive). If you do, let us know what they say. Although I believe from when I've seen others contact them it turns out not to matter whether it is or isn't USATF certified. They just want something with online results and was actually a race. I highly doubt they're going to scrutinize the POT races to that level of certification.

 

[jmasgat]

@DopeyBadger Good catch....and pretty frustrating/annoying that a mature race organization can't keep its information straight!

 

[Princess KP]

Hi running Disney folks! I have just gotten back into running over the past year, after many years away, and I’m registered to run the half marathon at Marathon Weekend 2020 with my childhood best friend! So excited. I’m new to racing, as in the past I just ran around on my own, and I have a question on Proof of Time that I’d love your wisdom on.

I ran my first 10K earlier this month (part of the Title 9 Mermaid run series) and finished with a time just under 1:02. It was officially chip timed, with results posted at raceroster and on their event site, but I don’t think USATF certified, because I assume if it was, the event site would specifically say that. I have seen some conflicting statements about whether that matters, even though the rundisney site says it. I did submit the POT info and link to the race results when I registered.

I am *not* looking to be super focused on time at Disney — it will only be my second ever half marathon (first one late this year!) and, well, it’s Disney, it’s about the fun. But I would like to have an appropriate corral so I’m potentially around similarly paced folks to some extent, to make it a little smoother. How important do you think it is that I hunt down a USATF race? If important, this may be a dumb question but how do I even find one?

I emailed runDisney last month to ask if races needed to be USATF certified.

Their response:
"Please note that the race needs to be officially timed by race management, which is usually done with a tag device. The race management team will report your finish time and display results on a website where it can be verified. Self-timed, training, or virtual runs will not be accepted."

 

[cavepig]

I was. holding out but then asked a friend a run disney ..they told me they expect the Dopey to see out within the next few weeks!

Your friend works for Run Disney? I would be surprised it sells out this soon.

 

[courtneybeth]

The 10 miler I signed up for re: POT just switched to a night race - so that's a no go because I'm out of town! Thankfully they're going to refund me the full price I paid because they've changed the race date and time. (Surf City 10 Miler in Huntington Beach, CA).

That said, I've signed up to run a Half Marathon on September 7th to get that elusive 2:35 POT and to see where I am at for the Chicago Marathon. Obviously Chicago takes priority right now over everything but my coach said I'll be good to test run some speed and nutrition on a relatively flat course that's local. She gets that I am doing my Second and Done Dopey

 

[Jlk603]

Thank you all for the warm welcome
and the info about the certified/timed question! And I feel validated that the messaging seemed confusing to at least a few other people.

This thread is full of great stuff, I look forward to hanging around.

 

[Poutine]

These updates did increase my FOMO. When I got into NYC this year we agreed that 2021 would be my Dopey year (with family members joining different races with me). But now I'm consider Goofy this year. Is it crazy to do two marathons about 3 months apart? Southwest releases their schedule next month and I have more than enough miles for the wife and I to fly down. If I can get an economy resort for around $130/night this could be (in Disney terms) a not too expensive fun weekend without kids when it is cold at home. Ugh, I think I am crazy.

2 marathons 3 months apart is not a problem, you'llbe fine. I've bookended weeks with marathons, run a marathon Sunday, then one the next Saturday. Look up marathon maniacs.

 

[lahobbs4]

I love the retro logos! I liked Mickey having his own race. I guess I'm cool with Minnie being on there. I still haven't come around to Oswald but I'll wear the shirt.

Running question: I finally have a watch that tracks my heart rate, but I'm having a hard time finding specifically what my heart rate should be while running! Every site I find keeps trying to give me a generic range based on gender and race (edited to AGE, Sorry!!). Anyone have a good source for this??

 

[camaker]

I love the retro logos! I liked Mickey having his own race. I guess I'm cool with Minnie being on there. I still haven't come around to Oswald but I'll wear the shirt.

Running question: I finally have a watch that tracks my heart rate, but I'm having a hard time finding specifically what my heart rate should be while running! Every site I find keeps trying to give me a generic range based on gender and race. Anyone have a good source for this??

The heart rate at which you should be running is a complicated question that depends on your resting heart rate, your maximum heart rate and what you are trying to accomplish while you're running. Your heart rate is generally broke down into 5 zones (heart rate ranges). If you're trying to do easy, endurance building running, you want to be primarily in Zone 2. If you're wanting to work on strength or tempo, you generally want to be in a higher zone. Each zone has a range of adaptations that exercising in it will develop. I'm sure @DopeyBadger has a detailed breakdown of the specifics. Usually the heart rate zones are calculated as follows (there are some variations depending on who you ask):

1. Take your resting heart rate (RHR) and estimate your maximum heart rate (MHR)
2. Determine your heart rate reserve (HRR) HRR = MHR - RHR
3. Calculate your zones as follows:
   1. Zone 1: RHR to (RHR + 60% HRR)
   2. Zone 2: (RHR + 60% HRR) to (RHR + 70% HRR)
   3. Zone 3: (RHR + 70% HRR) to (RHR + 80% HRR)
   4. Zone 4: (RHR + 80% HRR) to (RHR + 90% HRR)
   5. Zone 5: (RHR + 90% HRR) to MHR

 

[DopeyBadger]

Running question: I finally have a watch that tracks my heart rate, but I'm having a hard time finding specifically what my heart rate should be while running! Every site I find keeps trying to give me a generic range based on gender and race. Anyone have a good source for this??

I haven't seen any gender/race based HR zone recommendations before, but like @camaker I highly recommend the HRR approach. Here is a pace zone based chart based on Jack Daniels and %HRR that @camaker is referencing. The area of interest are the % ranges for each of the types of paces/efforts as that is static, whereas the actual HR ranges themselves (like 116-133) are based on the inputted data (maxHR 175 and restHR 49).



So if someone had a:

Max HR of 175 (Look for the highest HR you've achieved in a 5k that wasn't cadence lock. Don't use 220-age as that has a huge standard deviation which makes it mostly irrelevant for many.)
Resting HR of 49 (Either from your watch, or check your pulse after you've awoken bu before you get out of bed.)
HRR = maxHR - restHR = 175-49 = 126

53% HRR = restHR + (0.53 * HRR) = 49 + (0.53*126) = 49 + 66.78 = 115.78

So as the chart says, for this example, I would expect this person's easy pace to be around 116-133. Their Threshold pace around 159-161.

This chart (maxHR and restHR) are based on my values. From personal experience, I'd say my easy HR is around 125-137, LR HR is 138-142, M Tempo HR is 148-152, HM HR is 154, LT is 157, and for the 10k/5k racing I only hit those ranges at the tail end of races. So I'm normally on the low side of Daniels projections personally.

My personal preference is to use HR as a secondary measure. Something I evaluate after the run is complete to help validate the pace/effort I chose on that day as being appropriate. But in the moment when I'm running, I prefer to use pace (with adjustments for environmental conditions and changes in elevation) and effort. Pace and effort are my primary measures of training. But after several years of accumulating data on HRvPace, I can say that my HR at certain effort levels is fairly consistent. As my fitness improves, my HR at a certain effort remains the same, but the pace becomes faster.

 

[Jason Bryer]

Running question: I finally have a watch that tracks my heart rate, but I'm having a hard time finding specifically what my heart rate should be while running! Every site I find keeps trying to give me a generic range based on gender and race. Anyone have a good source for this??

I had a hard time understanding heart rate too. I figured it out by observing my training runs. For me, keeping my heart rate below 170 means I can run a lot further (167 is my current target for long runs). I have also found that things like humidity and incline can have as much a factor on my heart rate as speed. Starting with @camaker suggestions is a great start, but judge how you feel after a run in conjunction with your heart rate.

 

[DopeyBadger]

@lahobbs4

I had some additional thoughts related to your question on HR data that I thought you might find useful.

First, the graph of HRvPace improving over time I referenced earlier.



It's a nice visual representation of an improvement of the relationship between my HR at different paces over the course of a single training plan.

Second, don't be discouraged if you see your HRvPace get worse. This can easily happen when the elevation profile of a run changes and/or the environmental conditions change. The following is a table I commonly share for Temp+Dew adjustments to pacing:



For instance, if the recovery pace is normally an 8:50 min/mile and the T+D is 150, then a 4.5% adjustment would give a new pace of a 9:14 min/mile under those conditions.

I used my own personal data and effort based system to see whether this lined up personally. The following is a graph showing the theoretical relationship between changes in Temp+Dew and the % change in pace.



These all happened in a tight time frame suggesting that "fitness" was not a big variable. And yet with the swing in T+D (y-axis) you can see the change in my pace (x-axis). The "blue dots" are my actual data, the pink and green dots are where the theoretical data from the table would have predicted. My personal data lines up really well with the theoretical response predictions.

Another thing I really like to track is my restingHR. My Garmin 225 does this. The Garmin Connect output graph isn't great though because the "view" of it is too tight in my opinion. So I prefer to collect the data myself.

The following chart shows every resting HR data point from the last 2.5 years.



It's really noisy and hard to get any real good interpretations from it. But if I use the 7-day rolling average (a week), then it cleans the graph up quite a bit to show general trends.



So what can I glean from the resting HR data?

-That enormous spike early in the graph is when I had a sinus infection. It was pre-predicted based on my restingHR increasing before I even had a fever.
-The times I've been in peak running fitness have coincided when my resting HR has been at it's lowest. Daniels 5k/10k training in Spring 2017 and Dopey 2018 training right before the race.
-The last three-four months have been really interesting has I've been trying to attack my training from a training load calculation standpoint. You can see my resting HR has been steadily dropping as my fitness has been increasing.

Lastly, you can use your HR data and Elevate (a Google Chrome Plug-in) to do training load calculations that helps make informed decisions on whether the training has been appropriate. I've been trying to manipulate this in the last few months with my training with good results.



It's important to know that this type of training load calculation can't see specificity of training which is important for whatever the specific distance event you're training for. Here's additional information on Elevate and Training Load calcs. I put it behind a spoiler because it's a ton of links.

Spoiler: Training Load Calcs

Training Load

-A longer thread from earlier in 2018: The Beginner's Guide to Stravistix or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the TRIMP (started by @kleph)
-An explantation of the terminology and whether "Fitness" = Pace: "Fitness" and "Fatigue"
-More isn't always better
-Finally figured out how to apply the mathematical formula of Stress Score, "Fitness" and "Fatigue"

Now the parts that will be more interesting.

Training Load Calculations on Different Training Plans for Different Fitness Profiles
-Covers the following scenarios.
--4 hour runner vs 6 hour runner using traditional Galloway Advanced Marathon
--4 hour runner choosing between traditional Galloway Advanced Marathon and a hybrid with 4 days per week but minimized long run
--6 hour runner choosing between traditional Galloway Advanced Marathon and a hybrid with 4 days per week but minimized long run
--4 hour runner vs 5 hour runner using Hansons Advanced
--4 hour runner vs 5 hour runner using Hansons Advanced; Determining appropriate Base training
--4 hour runner vs 5 hour runner using Hansons Advanced; A Secondary method to make Hansons Advanced appropriate for 5 hr runner

Training Load Calculations on Different Training Plans for Different Fitness Profiles: Part 2
--Covers the following scenarios.
--4 hour runner choosing between Hansons Advanced and Higdon Advanced 2
--4 hour runner missing the last long run in Hansons Advanced: What truly happens to training load when you miss the last big training day???
--4 hour runner missing the entire peak week in Hansons Advanced: What truly happens to training load when you miss the entire peak week???
--4 hour runner who chooses to increase the long run in Hansons Advanced because 16 is just too short

4 hour marathon runner choosing between Hansons Advanced and Hansons Beginner

Training Load Calculations (What happens when the next cycle starts?): Part 3
--Runner decides to follow up 18 week Hansons Advanced with another 18 week Hansons Advanced starting right after the Marathon ends
--Runner decides to follow up 18 week Hansons Advanced with another 18 week Hansons Advanced starting 2 weeks after the Marathon ends and takes some time off
--Runner decides to follow up 18 week Hansons Advanced with 12 week Hansons Advanced starting 2 weeks after the Marathon ends and takes some time off
--Runner decides to follow up 18 week Hansons Advanced with 10 week Hansons Advanced starting 2 weeks after the Marathon ends and takes some time off
--Runner decides to follow up 18 week Hansons Advanced with 12 week Hansons Advanced starting right after the Marathon ends

Welcome to the world of using HR to supplement your run training!

 

[lahobbs4]

Thank you guys! And gosh, I meant gender and AGE. So many categories of being a person...

@camaker @DopeyBadger My resting HR tends to stay around 53 so this will help. I have really low blood pressure and anemia so I need to keep an eye on my target rate when running. It's been a bit overwhelming!

 

[PaDisneyCouple]

Look for the highest HR you've achieved in a 5k that wasn't cadence lock

what do you mean by cadence lock?