Member Services Breaking 11 Month Rule!

[DaveNan]

In this case the 2 BR vs studio booking are also a possibility. I'm not sure I agree that it's not honoring the 11 month booking rule, it may be that it's not honoring the ability to walk the reservations. It's also possible, and within their right as I read it, to hold reservations if they want past the 11 month window in some cases. What's not within the prevue of the POS is to block them for non DVC reservations like a VIP but they've done this as well in some cases in the past.

Since the day of interest has passed (it was yesterday this was occurring) we can't confirm. The next time this happens while a person holding a studio can't "walk" it because a day beyond 11 months is not available to them, they could also look at 2BR availability at 11 months and 1 day to confirm your theory. If all studios are gone at 11 months, and a person is holding a studio for that day, even if they are allocating a LO 2BR over to a dedicated 2BR, that "dedicated" 2 BR could not be booked for the 11 month day, so it would have to show being available at 11 month and 1 day, while studios were unavailable at 11 month and a day. Currently the 11 availability of the 2 BR LO is equal to the "and" of studios and 1BR for AKV value. Additionally, there is no dedicated category for AKV value 2BR. So, I find it hard to believe Disney IT could have dedicated 2BR in the background, while the booking tool does not show dedicated 2 BR as a bookable option. In general your theory is predicated on switching LO 2BR over to dedicated 2BR. If a resort had those booking categories, it would just take shifting the inventory and the overall booking algorithm would not change. But the 3 most walked categories, AKV value, AKV club, and BWV STD, do not even have dedicated 2BR as an option. Without being able to change the allocation, doing this would be major changes in the booking software since the 2BR dedicated is not an option for those resorts. It would also make these shifts very visible in the booking tool to everyone who searches, not just the individual with the "interrupted" walk. "How is there a LO 2 BR available, when the is not a studio available?" At that point you can't say someone has it booked, the booking tool shows the LO 2BR is available. Which means a studio and a 1BR are available.

 

[DisneyStarWisher]

Since the day of interest has passed (it was yesterday this was occurring) we can't confirm. The next time this happens while a person holding a studio can't "walk" it because a day beyond 11 months is not available to them, they could also look at 2BR availability at 11 months and 1 day to confirm your theory. If all studios are gone at 11 months, and a person is holding a studio for that day, even if they are allocating a LO 2BR over to a dedicated 2BR, that "dedicated" 2 BR could not be booked for the 11 month day, so it would have to show being available at 11 month and 1 day, while studios were unavailable at 11 month and a day. Currently the 11 availability of the 2 BR LO is equal to the "and" of studios and 1BR for AKV value. Additionally, there is no dedicated category for AKV value 2BR. So, I find it hard to believe Disney IT could have dedicated 2BR in the background, while the booking tool does not show dedicated 2 BR as a bookable option. In general your theory is predicated on switching LO 2BR over to dedicated 2BR. If a resort had those booking categories, it would just take shifting the inventory and the overall booking algorithm would not change. But the 3 most walked categories, AKV value, AKV club, and BWV STD, do not even have dedicated 2BR as an option. Without being able to change the allocation, doing this would be major changes in the booking software since the 2BR dedicated is not an option for those resorts. It would also make these shifts very visible in the booking tool to everyone who searches, not just the individual with the "interrupted" walk. "How is there a LO 2 BR available, when the is not a studio available?" At that point you can't say someone has it booked, the booking tool shows the LO 2BR is available. Which means a studio and a 1BR are available.

I actually could try it as I have another room I needed to modify today, but it looks like the site is down. I keep getting “Please try again later. All password-protected areas of this website are temporarily unavailable.”

 

[zavandor]

What it does it give DVCMC 100% control of the reservation system without input. This allows them to limit how the reservations are available. As I noted, they have done this in the past though they stopped doing so around the time of online reservations likely because of the IT requirements to designate the units differently. So it would absolutely give them the right to designate some lockoff's to only be reserved as 2 BR, whether that's in play here, who knows. It seems clear that either they have blocked them for some reason or the 2 BR reservations took over at least one room locking the OP out of that next day.

Does this means they might decide to hold some rooms for the 7 months window? The POS says the owners must have a month priority over not owners, but it doesn't say explicitly it must be for all rooms. If they deem useful for the system to have beter chances of 7 months switch, they might decide to keep some rooms available.

 

[Dean]

Since the day of interest has passed (it was yesterday this was occurring) we can't confirm. The next time this happens while a person holding a studio can't "walk" it because a day beyond 11 months is not available to them, they could also look at 2BR availability at 11 months and 1 day to confirm your theory. If all studios are gone at 11 months, and a person is holding a studio for that day, even if they are allocating a LO 2BR over to a dedicated 2BR, that "dedicated" 2 BR could not be booked for the 11 month day, so it would have to show being available at 11 month and 1 day, while studios were unavailable at 11 month and a day. Currently the 11 availability of the 2 BR LO is equal to the "and" of studios and 1BR for AKV value. Additionally, there is no dedicated category for AKV value 2BR. So, I find it hard to believe Disney IT could have dedicated 2BR in the background, while the booking tool does not show dedicated 2 BR as a bookable option. In general your theory is predicated on switching LO 2BR over to dedicated 2BR. If a resort had those booking categories, it would just take shifting the inventory and the overall booking algorithm would not change. But the 3 most walked categories, AKV value, AKV club, and BWV STD, do not even have dedicated 2BR as an option. Without being able to change the allocation, doing this would be major changes in the booking software since the 2BR dedicated is not an option for those resorts. It would also make these shifts very visible in the booking tool to everyone who searches, not just the individual with the "interrupted" walk. "How is there a LO 2 BR available, when the is not a studio available?" At that point you can't say someone has it booked, the booking tool shows the LO 2BR is available. Which means a studio and a 1BR are available.

To truly test it one would have had to be walking both types. The possibility I was referring to is they could have designated a certain # to be booked as 2BR vs separate to be fair to all and spread out the demand. They have done so in the past and indications were that the reason they stopped is because of the limitations of the booking system, not the intent. My guess is they just took something out of service, we don't know why and likely never will.

Does this means they might decide to hold some rooms for the 7 months window? The POS says the owners must have a month priority over not owners, but it doesn't say explicitly it must be for all rooms. If they deem useful for the system to have beter chances of 7 months switch, they might decide to keep some rooms available.

Technically I suppose they could but that seems to be a stretch and would violate the intent of the rule where holding certain room types for other owners at that resort would not.

 

[DaveNan]

I actually could try it as I have another room I needed to modify today, but it looks like the site is down. I keep getting “Please try again later. All password-protected areas of this website are temporarily unavailable.”

Well I looked last night before I typed my post. Both studio and LO 2BR were unavailable on the 23rd, 24th, 25th, and 26th. and available on the 27th, 28th, and 29th. 1BR were available every night. Since you had a studio on the evening of the 23rd, that means there is no way every studio and LO 2BR could have been booked for the 24th unless Disney was taking rooms out of service, an IT glitch or reserving them before the 11 month window opened. This room could not be walked and LO 2BR (which could not have a reservation started yet) were not available past 11 month either.

 

[Sandisw]

Does this means they might decide to hold some rooms for the 7 months window? The POS says the owners must have a month priority over not owners, but it doesn't say explicitly it must be for all rooms. If they deem useful for the system to have beter chances of 7 months switch, they might decide to keep some rooms available.

I honestly don’t think that there is widespread antics going on with Disney taking rooms outside 11 month window but I also do not see anything that prevents them from doing it if they are basing it on their ability to anticipate and reserve per POS. I know most think they have to follow same rules, but my reading of POS, and interpretation of it isn’t so clear.

So, maybe Disney has begun to monitor the entire concept of walking for some rooms and putting things in play to stop it. Lots of members have expressed the interest in Disney doing it.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I honestly don’t think that there is widespread antics going on with Disney taking rooms outside 11 month window but I also do not see anything that prevents them from doing it if they are basing it on their ability to anticipate and reserve per POS. I know most think they have to follow same rules, but my reading of POS, and interpretation of it isn’t so clear.

So, maybe Disney has begun to monitor the entire concept of walking for some rooms and putting things in play to stop it. Lots of members have expressed the interest in Disney doing it.

They have an ability to estimate breakage and reserve rooms ahead for although I don't know that it allows them to break the 11 month window, just the 60 day. That's outlined in the POS. I don't recall for certain if they can estimate much else though? Other trades have the rule of 4 to protect them. It would seem that either they are allowed to estimate or to have a rule like that but to have both would be handcuffing owners. Still I'm sure some trade estimating within the 11 month window is done but I don't know that they can do it ahead of that 11 month window.

On the breakage - I've wondered some about that estimate these days. We all know inventory has tightened up. If DVC continues to use the old models then no wonder all resorts always max out on breakage income and (DVC adds to their bottom line) but do they ever truly test that model and let it go to the 60 day mark to see if it's still valid? I suspect they haven't.

 

[Sandisw]

They have an ability to estimate breakage and reserve rooms ahead for although I don't know that it allows them to break the 11 month window, just the 60 day. That's outlined in the POS. I don't recall for certain if they can estimate much else though? Other trades have the rule of 4 to protect them. It would seem that either they are allowed to estimate or to have a rule like that but to have both would be handcuffing owners. Still I'm sure some trade estimating within the 11 month window is done but I don't know that they can do it ahead of that 11 month window.

On the breakage - I've wondered some about that estimate these days. We all know inventory has tightened up. If DVC continues to use the old models then no wonder all resorts always max out on breakage income and (DVC adds to their bottom line) but do they ever truly test that model and let it go to the 60 day mark to see if it's still valid? I suspect they haven't.

The section I read does not mention it in relation to breakage...just they can reasonably reserve, deposit, or rent the accommodations for the purpose of facilitating the use or future use of the accommodations or other benefits made available through the Vacation Plan.

So, to me, it unclear that they have to follow the 11 month rule as the rest of us. IMO, this clause gives them some element of wiggle room if they are doing it for the purposes listed?

Prior to this it mentions the right to reserve is subject to the rules but then specifically gives the managing entity this permission...so it does imply they have rights we do not...at least it does to me.

 

[AmyPK]

The POS documents for the resorts provide that both members and Disney are subject to the 11-month reservation rule, which was another fact I pointed out to DVC when I asserted the Thanksgiving AKV GV reservations should not be there.

Would you be able to cite the location you found this information? I've been trying to read the documents and can't seem to find this info.
Thanks!

 

[Sandisw]

Would you be able to cite the location you found this information? I've been trying to read the documents and can't seem to find this info.
Thanks!

I would like to know too because I can’t find it either.

 

[drusba]

Would you be able to cite the location you found this information? I've been trying to read the documents and can't seem to find this info.
Thanks!

The Home Resort Rules and Regulations is the document that sets out that a club member cannot reserve earlier than 11-months out from the desired starting date of a reservation at a home resort. It also provides that reservations are done on a first come first served basis. If you do not have a copy of those rules, you can find a copy of the latest one here: https://disneyvacationclub.disney.g...e-Resort-Rules-and-Regulations-DRR-062718.pdf

The other document to go to is the Disney Vacation Club Membership Agreement for your resort, under which DVCM becomes the home resort manager of each resort and the the party that controls home resort reservations and creates any Home Resort Rules and Regulations that may be applicable to making reservations. It provides that DVCM shall create the Home Resort Rules and Regulations, including those dealing with the timing of reservations and also repeats that first come, first served rule.

DVD is a party to that Membership Agreement. Under section 3.7 of the BWV Membership Agreement (section numbers may differ for other resorts), DVD expressly agrees that, as to making reservations using points it owns, DVD "will be governed by the same rules and regulations pertaining to all Club Members." Thus, it is bound to follow the 11-month reservation rules.

 

[Sandisw]

The Home Resort Rules and Regulations is the document that sets out that a club member cannot reserve earlier than 11-months out from the desired starting date of a reservation at a home resort. It also provides that reservations are done on a first come first served basis. If you do not have a copy of those rules, you can find a copy of the latest one here: https://disneyvacationclub.disney.g...e-Resort-Rules-and-Regulations-DRR-062718.pdf

The other document to go to is the Disney Vacation Club Membership Agreement for your resort, under which DVCM becomes the home resort manager of each resort and the the party that controls home resort reservations and creates any Home Resort Rules and Regulations that may be applicable to making reservations. It provides that DVCM shall create the Home Resort Rules and Regulations, including those dealing with the timing of reservations and also repeats that first come, first served rule.

DVD is a party to that Membership Agreement. Under section 3.7 of the BWV Membership Agreement (section numbers may differ for other resorts), DVD expressly agrees that, as to making reservations using points it owns, DVD "will be governed by the same rules and regulations pertaining to all Club Members." Thus, it is bound to follow the 11-month reservation rules.

Thanks...this will make it easier to find! I figured you’d have the general area to search!

 

[twinklebug]

The Home Resort Rules and Regulations is the document that sets out that a club member cannot reserve earlier than 11-months out from the desired starting date of a reservation at a home resort. It also provides that reservations are done on a first come first served basis. If you do not have a copy of those rules, you can find a copy of the latest one here: https://disneyvacationclub.disney.g...e-Resort-Rules-and-Regulations-DRR-062718.pdf

The other document to go to is the Disney Vacation Club Membership Agreement for your resort, under which DVCM becomes the home resort manager of each resort and the the party that controls home resort reservations and creates any Home Resort Rules and Regulations that may be applicable to making reservations. It provides that DVCM shall create the Home Resort Rules and Regulations, including those dealing with the timing of reservations and also repeats that first come, first served rule.

DVD is a party to that Membership Agreement. Under section 3.7 of the BWV Membership Agreement (section numbers may differ for other resorts), DVD expressly agrees that, as to making reservations using points it owns, DVD "will be governed by the same rules and regulations pertaining to all Club Members." Thus, it is bound to follow the 11-month reservation rules.

They've been playing this game with the value rooms at Kidani for years now. They'll block rooms out beyond the 11 month window and sometimes later release them, about a month past the first booking dates. Occasionally the blocked dates are done so for maintenance and that is obvious when it's done for 2+ weeks at a time. Then there are the individual days that are blocked out. One could argue that Disney is going through the rooms working to change out/repair some major element (a counter/sink/commode etc) but that is not the sort of thing Disney plans for. If a major emergency repair pops up it is taken out at that moment in time, not down the road.

My bet whe we see these individual days reserved out past the 11 month reach: someone within IT, probably a manager, has access and is blocking out days for themselves or as a favor to another reservations unit. No, it's not allowed but they are aware there is no way we can prove it and probably no way they'll get caught unless someone with data permissions is looking at the exact hold and willing to call a manager out on it. It's a theory of one bad egg who knows how to play the system.

 

[Sandisw]

They've been playing this game with the value rooms at Kidani for years now. They'll block rooms out beyond the 11 month window and sometimes later release them, about a month past the first booking dates. Occasionally the blocked dates are done so for maintenance and that is obvious when it's done for 2+ weeks at a time. Then there are the individual days that are blocked out. One could argue that Disney is going through the rooms working to change out/repair some major element (a counter/sink/commode etc) but that is not the sort of thing Disney plans for. If a major emergency repair pops up it is taken out at that moment in time, not down the road.

My bet whe we see these individual days reserved out past the 11 month reach: someone within IT, probably a manager, has access and is blocking out days for themselves or as a favor to another reservations unit. No, it's not allowed but they are aware there is no way we can prove it and probably no way they'll get caught unless someone with data permissions is looking at the exact hold and willing to call a manager out on it. It's a theory of one bad egg who knows how to play the system.

I think you mean the values at Jambo as they don’t exist at Kidani.

 

[CarolMN]

My bet whe we see these individual days reserved out past the 11 month reach: someone within IT, probably a manager, has access and is blocking out days for themselves or as a favor to another reservations unit. No, it's not allowed but they are aware there is no way we can prove it and probably no way they'll get caught unless someone with data permissions is looking at the exact hold and willing to call a manager out on it. It's a theory of one bad egg who knows how to play the system.

Maybe. Or maybe someone is just "breaking up" walks. Perhaps it will expand to some other common walks.

 

[twinklebug]

I think you mean the values at Jambo as they don’t exist at Kidani.

Ha! I know better too.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

Maybe. Or maybe someone is just "breaking up" walks. Perhaps it will expand to some other common walks.

Oh, look... someone walking a reservation.



Oops. Must have been a glitch.

 

[crisi]

Maybe. Or maybe someone is just "breaking up" walks. Perhaps it will expand to some other common walks.

I would be thrilled if this is what they were doing. I know walking is "legal" and its personally never affected me (we don't travel during walking times and aren't looking for walking room types) but I don't think its ethical or should be allowed.

 

[Sandisw]

Maybe. Or maybe someone is just "breaking up" walks. Perhaps it will expand to some other common walks.

Clever..stopping it, without changing the entire system! Lol.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Maybe. Or maybe someone is just "breaking up" walks. Perhaps it will expand to some other common walks.

Taking that seriously for a moment - I'd hope they weren't wasting time doing that.