Natalie Holloway new info

The world's population would plummet if death was the result of the stupid things we did when we were 18...

The thing is, sometimes that is the result. And while PP may not have pointed that out very tactfully, she's not entirely wrong either.

That doesn't make me feel any less bad for the victim or her family, nor does it shift any blame from the monster who committed murder, but it is a lesson for those of us still breathing.
 
There's a show coming up on Saturday night about it. I saw that her dad will be on the show. I don't know if her mom will be.

What's the name of the show? I just did a search on any TV shows about Natalie Holloway and I couldn't find it. Want to hear about anything new.
 
The purpose for chaperones was because they were thought to be too young to be traveling without them. Should they have been with them minute by minute?.... No of course not, but regular check ins should have been mandatory. Drinking age here was 21, don't know what drinking age there was and another reason chaperones should be watching....... Most definitely they should have stayed in groups together in a foreign country. Here, home in your backyard is a different thing all together, IMO there is no comparison in the 2.

Yes, the bartender deserves to be in jail along side Van der Sloot. Since its only bones that have been found and 11 years later, they will likely never know what killed her and he will probably never pay for his part in it.
Admittedly I am not an expert in the Halloway case. (Nor do I play one on TV!)

But looking at the history (Wiki) - there were 126 students from her school that went, along with 7 chaperones. (Big trip!) The chaperones and students were to check in with each other once a day, which they did. I'm sure they chose a place like Aruba because the drinking age was 18. Their goal was to party, and party they did, by all reports. That's no different than what many of our young people have always done at that time in their lives. Natalee was discovered missing when she didn't show up for her flight home on May 30, however, in her hotel room, her bag was packed and her passport was out. So clearly, although she might have partied heartily, she was cognizant enough to do that on a day nearing her departure, which was probably May 29. Friends reported seeing her last on that night getting into a car with Van der Sloot and two other young men (who reported dropping her off at her hotel at 1am). Mistake? Absolutely, in just about any scenario you can think up, although it happens all the time. (Even with people we think will normally have good judgement, and even in the absence of being under the influence. Never say never! I know some young people right now I would've bet would never do stupid things, but I've been proven wrong! Coulda, woulda, shoulda!) But it seems to me that up to that point, it was a typical celebratory graduation vacation. I'm having a hard time blaming anyone but the perpertrators/predators who took advantage of Natalee. Personally I think she was probably very charmed by Van der Sloot and probably let her guard down a little more than she should've (on her last night of vacation), but who among us hasn't done this at some point in their lives, whether it be with a romantic prospect or with simply walking to your car at night?

Joran Van der Sloot
Joran-van-der-sloot1.jpg
 
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Oh, and we don't know that there will only be bones left. There may be tissue and forensics has come a long way.
 


Oh, and we don't know that there will only be bones left. There may be tissue and forensics has come a long way.

Well going by Caylee Anthony and her only missing for 6 months and nothing being left (Florida and Aruba temps. similar) for forensics to test, I will be shocked if there is anything left. I hope there is and they can punish these men.

Saddened that her friends watched her get into his car alone and didn't try and stop her.......
 
I thought at the time (and still do) that she made some very poor choices. She was about my age, and she put herself at risk. Just makes me angry she was that stupid. Her parents sent her on that trip to begin with, and I don't understand that. The whole set up was courting disaster. And the media coverage made me angry too; the only reason that made the headlines was that she was a pretty blonde rich American. But that guy is scum, and I'm glad he got some kind of prison sentence.

I agree, I hope it is her remains and that the family finds closure. I don't think anyone really thinks she is out there still alive but never knowing would be worse.

Well, she was very young, and young people often do stupid things. Yes, I realize that some kids are more mature, but most 18 year olds are not.

The thing I have never understood is how parents not only allow, but pay for a trip which is basically an orgy for teen-aged kids. I believe Aruba was chosen because there would be no drinking restrictions, and IIRC, that group got so wild and out of hand that the hotel wouldn't allow kids on senior trips to stay there anymore.
 
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From the story that is circulating around this week (and I've read many as well as done some of my own research into the people involved, so I can't cite just one that holds all this information), Van der Sloot bought her a drink at a bar. The bartender was purportedly in cahoots with him as he told the bartender to "give it a good one" (or something to that effect), apparently meaning to put the date rape drug in her drink. Not sure if he doubled the dose or what but it was said that within a short time, she was "foaming at the mouth", Van der Sloot "panicked and didn't put her on her side" and she "choked on her own vomit" (or my guess would be an overdose of the drug could've killed her if she was foaming at the mouth, which indicates lack of breathing, as opposed to vomiting - an autopsy, if her body IS ever found, would hopefully clear that up). He supposedly then called his father, a judge who has since died, who helped him bury her body in a nearby park - the park in which they recently found a body and on which they are waiting for DNA testing results, expecte soon.

I guess my questions are, if this turns out to be true, what did she do wrong? She was celebrating her graduation, on a long awaited vacation on "One Happy Island", of drinking age, having a drink in a local, open bar, with a handsome young man. Should she have stayed every moment with her chaperones or friends? Who does that? (And doesn't this sort of thing, and much worse, go on regularly with the "hook up" culture of today?) The blaming should go on the people who did this to her - namely the bartender (who I hope will be charged if this turns out to be true) and Van der Sloot (who directed it). Additionally, any who knew what happened or took part in covering up the crime. Maybe they will give the roommate (of the best friend of Van der Sloot) immunity for coming forward and testifying, even if it's been a while.

As far as the media circus goes, well, its a double edged sword: that's who's kept Natalee's name out there for so long, I suppose. And the family must've agreed to whatever show is on this weekend where the "reveal" will supposedly occur. It does seem like the timing is a little strange, but then again, I've never been in their situation. I imagine if I was, I'd do just about anything to get answers, too.

The way I remember, she was conscious when she got into a cab with him. I remember her friends yelling at her to not go with them, and she replying "that's OK. they (or he, I don't remember) are my friends! Very naive. No one saw her after that.

Who was a a witness that saw her getting the date rape drug and foaming at the mouth?
 


Natalee was 18 years old, 5 months shy of 19. She was legally allowed to drink in Aruba and could have taken that trip on her own as a legal adult. So lets knock off the victim, parent, school and chaperone blaming.
What happened to her could have happened to any young adult on a vacation where a pathetic excuse for a human drugs her drink.
 
The way I remember, she was conscious when she got into a cab with him. I remember her friends yelling at her to not go with them, and she replying "that's OK. they (or he, I don't remember) are my friends! Very naive. No one saw her after that.

Who was a a witness that saw her getting the date rape drug and foaming at the mouth?
The way I read it is this is what's coming out now from the former roommate of VdS's best friend, apparently how the story got passed down from VdS, to his best friend, to, eventually, the best friend's later roommate.

If this is how it happened, then I imagine, from there (the car, or the cab - Wiki says a car, I really don't know), they went to the bar where the bartender spiked her drink. (Or maybe they went elsewhere, there was some mention in the Wiki article of them going to a beach to "see the sharks". Who knows.)

I agree, she was likely naive, and I, too, am saddened that her friends didn't try to stop her (lorimay). But this is us, as adults, knowing what we know now, and having hindsight into this situation; it's a different thought process at that age, in the moment.
 
Natalee was 18 years old, 5 months shy of 19. She was legally allowed to drink in Aruba and could have taken that trip on her own as a legal adult. So lets knock off the victim, parent, school and chaperone blaming.
What happened to her could have happened to any young adult on a vacation where a pathetic excuse for a human drugs her drink.
Exactly... None of those things make it okay for someone to murder her or deflect from that murder's 100% guilt.
 
Natalee was 18 years old, 5 months shy of 19. She was legally allowed to drink in Aruba and could have taken that trip on her own as a legal adult. So lets knock off the victim, parent, school and chaperone blaming.
What happened to her could have happened to any young adult on a vacation where a pathetic excuse for a human drugs her drink.
Heck, things like that do happen to young adults, even at home in the USA, or off at college (still in the USA) , etc.
The ridiculous blame being placed on already devestated parents by some is awful.
 
Exactly... None of those things make it okay for someone to murder her or deflect from that murder's 100% guilt.

None of those things make it "okay" for what happened. 10,000 % agree.

But, the things that went wrong all increased the odds of something bad happening. If my Home is burglarized, I'm just as much a victim if my doors were locked or unlocked. But, I lock them all the same.
 
Natalee was 18 years old, 5 months shy of 19. She was legally allowed to drink in Aruba and could have taken that trip on her own as a legal adult. So lets knock off the victim, parent, school and chaperone blaming.
What happened to her could have happened to any young adult on a vacation where a pathetic excuse for a human drugs her drink.

Of course it is 100% the perpetrator's fault. That doesn't stop me from doing everything possible to make sure I'm not a victim. Live and learn, I always say. How many times have we read about young adults going to these countries and being victimized? Far too often which for me means there is no way I would pay for or encourage my child to go on one of these trips where it's booze, booze and more booze. There are too many nefarious creatures waiting in the wings for an opportunity to strike. Same reason I tell my daughter not to walk alone on campus late at night.

Also, drugging drinks happens frequently in my city bars. My daughter has been told a billion times to cover her drinks and never, ever leave them unattended (when she starts drinking or going to bars). Of course it still would not be her fault if some sleaze managed to drug her drink but she needs to do everything possible to protect herself from the dregs of society.
 
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Ok, so Gumbo locks his doors, and Anna tells her daughter not to walk alone at night.

I do the same. I try to be pretty careful myself, and I'm positive my kids are pretty sick of me reminding them over and over about safety.

I'd bet the Holloways warned their daughter to be careful, too.

We can talk till we're blue in the face to our kids, and sometimes they just don't listen and do things anyway. Just like we did. And do.

Maybe we don't pay for such a trip, but who's to say something like this doesn't happen in our own backyards?

I thought my kids had pretty good heads on their shoulders, yet sometimes they forget to lock the doors and I've seen them not use good judgement at times.

It happens. We try the best we can to prevent things from happening, but they still happen.
 
Of course it is 100% the perpetrator's fault. That doesn't stop me from doing everything possible to make sure I'm not a victim. Live and learn, I always say. How many times have we read about young adults going to these countries and being victimized? Far too often which for me means there is no way I would pay for or encourage my child to go on one of these trips where it's booze, booze and more booze. There are too many nefarious creatures waiting in the wings for an opportunity to strike. Same reason I tell my daughter not to walk alone on campus late at night.

Also, drugging drinks happens frequently in my city bars. My daughter has been told a billion times to cover her drinks and never, ever leave them unattended (when she starts drinking or going to bars). Of course it still would not be her fault if some sleaze managed to drug her drink but she needs to do everything possible to protect herself from the dregs of society.

How do you know that Natalee wasn't taught those same lessons?

I don't understand why people even need to bring up "well if she did this, or didn't do that" in cases like this. Maybe no matter what she did or didn't do she still would have ended up murdered by a creep on that island.
I know its a defense mechanism, we don't ever want to think something like this could happen to our loved one because we've taught them better, we've told them not too....."
What a shame that people can't just say that they are terribly sorry that this girl's celebration ended in her murder. Instead they have to blame her for being stupid and getting herself killed.
 
Ok, so Gumbo locks his doors, and Anna tells her daughter not to walk alone at night.

I do the same. I try to be pretty careful myself, and I'm positive my kids are pretty sick of me reminding them over and over about safety.

I'd bet the Holloways warned their daughter to be careful, too.

We can talk till we're blue in the face to our kids, and sometimes they just don't listen and do things anyway. Just like we did. And do.

Maybe we don't pay for such a trip, but who's to say something like this doesn't happen in our own backyards?

I thought my kids had pretty good heads on their shoulders, yet sometimes they forget to lock the doors and I've seen them not use good judgement at times.

It happens. We try the best we can to prevent things from happening, but they still happen.

Of course it still happens. Doesn't mean we don't lock our doors. Nobody is blaming the victim or the parents.
 
How do you know that Natalee wasn't taught those same lessons?

I don't understand why people even need to bring up "well if she did this, or didn't do that" in cases like this. Maybe no matter what she did or didn't do she still would have ended up murdered by a creep on that island.
I know its a defense mechanism, we don't ever want to think something like this could happen to our loved one because we've taught them better, we've told them not too....."
What a shame that people can't just say that they are terribly sorry that this girl's celebration ended in her murder. Instead they have to blame her for being stupid and getting herself killed.

I didn't say she wasn't taught the same thing. I would not want my daughter to go on one of these trips is all I'm saying. I'm ABSOLUTELY not blaming the victim or her parents. What I'm saying is I've watched so many shows on what happens on these trips and based on what I've learned I would try to stop my daughter from going. That's it.

In no way, shape or form do I think my kids are immune to being victims of any crime. None of us are.
 
Well, she was very young, and young people often do stupid things. Yes, I realize that some kids are more mature, but most 18 year olds are not.

The thing I have never understood is how parents not only allow, but pay for a trip which is basically an orgy for teen-aged kids. I believe Aruba was chosen because there would be no drinking restrictions, and IIRC, that group got so wild and out of hand that the hotel wouldn't allow kids on senior trips to stay there anymore.
I'd like to think I wouldn't have let my daughter go on such a trip but the truth is she's a pretty level headed kid and at some point I have (had) to let her go out into the world to make her own choices. At 18+ there really wasn't a whole lot that they really could say or do to stop her.

As to not courting trouble hindsight is 20/20. I was the same type of level headed kid my DD is and I still made some pretty questionable choices back in the day I'm just lucky enough to be able to tell the tale. There are people out there that play by all the rules and still pay with their life. Just last week a girl my DD went to school with was murdered by a guy she dated for three months and had moved on from several months ago. This girl was doing everything right in life, had a good job, her own place, getting ready to go back to school, just an all around good kid making good choices and this guy caught her in the parking lot and strangled her as she was getting into her car. One hundred plus other kids on that trip were all taking risks and doing stupid things yet they made it home as did the kids on trips before them. Natalee is not the first girl to leave a party with a cute guy against her better judgment and she certainly won't be the last.
 
As to not courting trouble hindsight is 20/20. I was the same type of level headed kid my DD is and I still made some pretty questionable choices back in the day I'm just lucky enough to be able to tell the tale.

Amen to this!

If my kids make 1/10 the poor decisions I made I will still be in for a boatload of heartache.



*note to self: call your mother today*
 

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