need your opinion on my points rental situation

In all fairness, the owners of these points are not involved with this at all - as far as they know their points are rented - even if David's does process a refund for me that is ONLY if another renter is found - if no renter is found, I'm 100% out of luck and the owner keeps their money. That's what I would expect, as I knew it was nonrefundable. The owner has to do nothing, as far as I understand, other than call and change the name of David's finds a new renter. So the owner here is out nothing and has no risk (as it should be).

I've both rented my own points through David and rented points through him. The reason I rented through David - and didn't pocket an extra $3 a point, was so I didn't have to deal with this sort of thing. Your "no bother" is the whole reason I went with a guy who said "once you make the reservation, its done - except for adding Magical Express you won't need to touch the reservation again." I have a life, and no room in that life for "dealing with a stranger's change in vacation plans once my end of the deal is done." Your contempt for my time is offensive.
 
This is one of the chief advantages of working directly with an owner. My contract says that, within reason and subject to availability, I'll work with you to reschedule a trip within the UY window of the points.

That means once or twice not 7 times.

I won't sublet but I also agree to try to re-rent the points if the renter can't use them, subject to the fact that if I don't get as much, renter eats the difference.

I'm very flexible when renting reservations because I look to form relationships. And it works. Don't PM if I have points avail, I don't. And if I did, I have repeat renters who'd snatch them up from me.

If I was trying to rent reservations, I'd try to form a relationship with an owner that routinely rents points.
 
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Well that escalated quickly. Folks, I apologize if I offended anyone. I hope I conveyed in my original and follow up post that I was legitimately asking for others opinions and feedback, before I put forward any sort of negative feedback in case I was off base. It's clear that the majority of you feel I am off base, and I appreciate the feedback.



It's not fair. Why would you post negative feedback when you are getting a substantial amount of your money back when according to the terms you agreed to, you could be getting nothing back? I'm sorry but I just don't understand being upset at David's. Upset at being out money, yes. But I would be grateful to the company for the fact that I'm not out the entire amount.

Why is your opinion of what is reasonable any more legitimate than the rental company's opinion?

Let me ask this-would you feel better if they had simply said, sorry, you agreed to this and we will not give you an opportunity to get any of your money back.

Yes, actually. As I said multiple times I understand I signed a nonrefundable contract. I would rather know that I need to either go on the trip and use the reservation or lose all of the money, than be to be told that there is a third option but it would result in possibly (what I would consider, and maybe I'm wrong) excessive fees.

Name one item of the current scenario which is in violation or conflict with the contract you signed with David's?

Do you think the contract is unfair? I suppose that could be feedback, but the reason why most points rental transactions are considered final when made -- whether through a broker or a private party - is because of the mechanics of the owner-timeshare contract. While the owner behind your rental wasn't using premium points or paid home resort premium (OKW 1BR), we have no visibility to their UY. The points have been tied up for a while. If the owner were to cancel the reservation, the points might not be easily re-rented (depending on UY, bank/borrow status, etc.) within the needed timeline for the owner.

There is a cost to "I saved so much with DVC rental points!" You're encountering the cost right now: It is not flexible. You're accessing a non-flexible system. It's not the agency or the owner making it inflexible; it's the system's nature.

Totally agree. There is absolutely nothing about the contract that was unfair, and there is nothing in the current scenario that in violation of the contract. I have not said otherwise - I totally agree. My issue was not with the contract, but with how they handle the "exception".

I've both rented my own points through David and rented points through him. The reason I rented through David - and didn't pocket an extra $3 a point, was so I didn't have to deal with this sort of thing. Your "no bother" is the whole reason I went with a guy who said "once you make the reservation, its done - except for adding Magical Express you won't need to touch the reservation again." I have a life, and no room in that life for "dealing with a stranger's change in vacation plans once my end of the deal is done." Your contempt for my time is offensive.

Really? This seems a little harsh. I emphasized before that my understanding was that the owners involvement was limited to calling and changing the name. The owners I am renting from, by the way, have the option of not accepting a re-rental. If they say no, situation over, I deal with it. It is totally up to them, if they felt compassionate, to decide if they would make that call. Again, this is only if David's finds another renter, if not, then the owner is out absolutely nothing. One the prior posters made an excellent point that this may involve more than changing the name, such as magical express or dining plan, and I hadn't considered that. Of course, I haven't added any of those things, haven't made a room request, so the owner has spent no time wasted on me. I totally respect the owners time and would never do anything to waste it - they are not forced into doing anything.

David's is a for profit business and their terms and conditions are very clear. They are willing to bend their rules for a fee and you want to give them a bad review? Really?

:earsboy: Bill

I said above that I respect the opinions of everyone on this board and was NOT going to leave a negative review.


I really tried to be respectful and honest with my concerns and solicit feedback. Again, sorry if I offended anyone.
 
Yes, actually. As I said multiple times I understand I signed a nonrefundable contract. I would rather know that I need to either go on the trip and use the reservation or lose all of the money, than be to be told that there is a third option but it would result in possibly (what I would consider, and maybe I'm wrong) excessive fees.

Well then, I would go ahead and tell David's you would rather forfeit the entire amount. If that would make you more comfortable then you, should do it. It's your money, do what works best for you. I would make a different choice but that isn't relevant to what you consider important.
 
The owner of the points only gets about half the money until the reservation starts. So if they have only been paid half up to this time. they will be expecting more when the trip commences. If it doesn't commence, they don't get any more and lost the use of their own points because they are tied up in a reservation that you wanted a refund for. Making a brand new reservation is much easier than changing a reservation. You can make a new reservation online, then send an email to Member Services to add the names to the reservation. Changing it, you have to call MS and many times there is a wait to do that. Plus the owner may have a life, like crisi said and finds it difficult to call MS to modify the reservation. Member Services has limited hours, not twenty four hours a day and not as long as Disney Reservation Center.
 


Thanks everyone for your feedback and opinions. This is why I posted, to get others opinions. I had considered posting negative feedback for David's but wasn't sure that was fair, and I think after reading some of these replied I am convinced to keep my opinions to myself.

In all fairness, the owners of these points are not involved with this at all - as far as they know their points are rented - even if David's does process a refund for me that is ONLY if another renter is found - if no renter is found, I'm 100% out of luck and the owner keeps their money. That's what I would expect, as I knew it was nonrefundable. The owner has to do nothing, as far as I understand, other than call and change the name of David's finds a new renter. So the owner here is out nothing and has no risk (as it should be).

I think a 25% fee would be quite reasonable if truly I was just canceling and getting my money back, potentially causing inconvenience to the owners, but that's not what this would be.



I doubt they would take a lower $/pt as this is over New Years and all of the dedicated reservations for rent on their site are $16-17/pt during slower times, and I rented at $15.

I do agree with you however about the the fact that Davids would have to process a refund, collect new payment, post the reservation, generate a new agreeement and answer my and others various questions. No doubt there is more work here. I would be quite suprised, however, if all of that work is more than 5 hours, say, which is probably a generous estimate? At $904 that is $180/hr? Seems steep...

I don't mean to be "crying" to owners - truly and legitimately looking for honest feedback. As someone mentioned above, I'm just disappointed. I have used David's twice before and it was great! I am soured now...

I'm failing to really understand what you are complaining about as now it seems to be that they actually offered you an option where you may not lose all money for cancelling and THAT is the issue and considered to be unfair? :confused3 I think maybe taking a step back and considering how even getting offered an option where you wouldn't lose the entire amount was very nice - especially for a cancellation that is optional not due to illness etc. That is above and beyond what you agreed to and honestly I'd think would heighten your appreciation for David's rather than sour it. A negative review of them would definitely be completely unfair. About the only thing I'd be questioning is renting again as having cancellation flexibility seems to be a better option for your travels.
 
My contract says that, within reason and subject to availability, I'll work with you to reschedule a trip within the UY window of the points.

I'm very flexible when renting reservations because I look to form relationships.

If I was trying to rent reservations, I'd try to form a relationship with an owner that routinely rents points.
Totally agree. I would also venture a guess that most owners would be willing to try and accommodate your change if possible, and without any fee involved. And you would probably save some money, too, by going this route. Just a couple of advantages of renting directly from an owner.
 
David's is a scam - for both the renter AND the owner.

Luckily, I've found a GREAT owner that I rent from currently - with them, I have up until 60 days out to cancel my reservation and only forfeit a small portion of the down payment I put down (I pay half up-front, and then the second half right before 60 days out). So, basically, I have up until when they're locked in and can't change the reservation to make final payment.

I'm sorry you're in this position. But I'd also never make a 226-point reservation 11-months out (or whenever) knowing it was non-refundable. YIKES.
 
Would you be less sour if the money was non refundable, period. I honestly do not see your complaint about getting some of your money back as being a reasonable complaint.
 
David's is a scam - for both the renter AND the owner.

Luckily, I've found a GREAT owner that I rent from currently - with them, I have up until 60 days out to cancel my reservation and only forfeit a small portion of the down payment I put down (I pay half up-front, and then the second half right before 60 days out). So, basically, I have up until when they're locked in and can't change the reservation to make final payment.

I'm sorry you're in this position. But I'd also never make a 226-point reservation 11-months out (or whenever) knowing it was non-refundable. YIKES.
I think that's overstating it and a little unfair. I like that David's is a firm booking when I rent out my points. I make the reservation and never think of it again. If I rent to a friend or family member, it is a lot more work. For friends or family, that's okay, but sometimes I want no hassle.

I agree that locking in at 11 months is a bit scary, but renters know the rules.

Your owner has you lock in at 60 days out. That is not actually when our reservations as dvc owners become firm. Our reservations are firm at 31 days. So even your owner is building in a time cushion for him/herself.
 
As others have said, it seems as if the OP is more offended that David's is willing to be very generous in budging from the original agreement, than if David's had simply said "we have a contract, and we're sticking to the terms of that contract".

I don't get it, but to each their own.
 
David's is a scam - for both the renter AND the owner.

Luckily, I've found a GREAT owner that I rent from currently - with them, I have up until 60 days out to cancel my reservation and only forfeit a small portion of the down payment I put down (I pay half up-front, and then the second half right before 60 days out). So, basically, I have up until when they're locked in and can't change the reservation to make final payment.

I'm sorry you're in this position. But I'd also never make a 226-point reservation 11-months out (or whenever) knowing it was non-refundable. YIKES.
I wouldn't call David's a scam. Yes, you can definitely save money renting directly from an owner. And an owner could definitely make more money by finder renters on their own. But for many folks, David's offers convenience (e.g. he finds renters and handles all the communications) and peace of mind (e.g. an established business entity with a track record and certain guarantees). And he deserves to get paid for providing this service.
 
Haven't there been reports of Davi'ds simply being unwilling to give flexibility? Maybe this was a policy change in response to that criticism. As contracted, it seems fair and appropriate, no reason to be upset over that. Actually a reason to be happy that one might only lose part. I know as an individual who isn't doing this as a business but has rented an average of 2-3 reservations per year for 22 years, I personally don't have any problems trying to change a reservation as long as someone isn't back and forth simply being high maintenance. My terms are a 25% deposit the remainder at 120 days out all non refundable. But as a business there are real and direct costs to such changes and it's reasonable to charge much like a restocking fee.
 
I'm not a fan of David's. But it's not a scam. You do, however, as an owner or renter, pay for convenience.

My biggest disagreement is the idea that using David's is safer. If you do your due diligence, renting from an owner is safe.

For example, I wouldn't rent from someone on the boards without an extensive posting history. If someone has 300 posts here, they didn't come here scam you. And. They're not going to risk their place in our little online community for a few bucks.

Also. What I do is require half down on proof of reservation. I make the reservation and give you the confirmation number. Before you give me a penny. You can link the reservation into your My Disney Experience account and verify its existence.

Even with David's, owners flake. And while you'd get a refund, your room would be gone, probably much too late in the game to salvage your trip.

But there are other measures of safety, and this thread is one of them. David's is very inflexible with changes. He has to be. He's selling owners convenience and that means not being continually bothered. If I have to consider the renting experience multiple times and make multiple calls, I can do that myself and make more doing it. Owners are paying in point value precisely to avoid that hassle!

As for me, helping someone find their perfect reservation is a form of pixie dust. If I'm renting out points, I prefer to do it myself because most renters are very grateful for the help. I like the interaction with fellow WDW lovers.
 
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I think that's overstating it and a little unfair. I like that David's is a firm booking when I rent out my points. I make the reservation and never think of it again. If I rent to a friend or family member, it is a lot more work. For friends or family, that's okay, but sometimes I want no hassle.

I agree that locking in at 11 months is a bit scary, but renters know the rules.

Your owner has you lock in at 60 days out. That is not actually when our reservations as dvc owners become firm. Our reservations are firm at 31 days. So even your owner is building in a time cushion for him/herself.

I think that owner isn't terribly bright. Because although our reservations aren't firm until 31 days out, out points themselves have a lifespan. If I have a reservation for a renter right now for mid January, and they cancel 61 days out, I'm probably out of luck on those points. I'd be nearing the end of my use year. They'll expire before they can be reused - availability is an issue - they'll expire in about five months, I can't bank them, I'm past my window. If I'm lucky, I'd be able to rent out the confirmed reservation - but most people looking to rent a confirmed reservation look for a bargain - your chances of finding someone wanting to pay you full price for those exact nights in that exact room aren't great. My points, being BWV points, are most valuable eleven months out.

As long as that owners renters take their trips, they'll be fine. When someone tries to exercise that refund clause, they are likely to regret having it.

And that's the other reason I use Davids. I don't need to be the one to explain how cancellations work, that points expire, that availability becomes an issue, that my points are worth less today than they were six months ago, to someone who is currently out their money that I am in possession of. Its $3 a point in insurance for me to have David explain that if the need arises.
 
David's is a scam - for both the renter AND the owner.

The dictionary definition of scam is: "a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation"

David's is none of those things. They are a broker that is paid for a service. Owners pay David's to do the work of finding a renter, dealing with the renter, and handling the money. I do not want to do any of that, and I am happy to pay someone else to. Renters pay David's to find an owner with the points they need, deal with that owner, and handle the money. David's also provides renters with some financial protection.

All of their fees and terms are VERY clearly spelled out in the agreement that both owners and renters get. There's nothing remotely fraudulent or deceptive about their business.
 

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