Stitch577

Earning My Ears
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Hello,

Hopeful thinking, but I've been thinking about all of the new attractions that are opening/have recently opened in Epcot and Hollywood Studios and have been hoping that they are going to have to change the Fastpass+ tiers at those parks. I thought it would be fun to hear your predictions on what will happen with the Fastpass+ tiers in Hollywood Studios and Epcot. The new attractions I've been considering for HS are both Star Wars rides once they begin using FP+, and Runaway Railway. For Epcot I was thinking about Ratatouille and Guardians of the Galaxy (and possibly Mary Poppins when we find out what exactly that will be). Predict away!
 
With the "success" of MFSR and RotR NOT having Fast Passes -- I don't see anything changing at Hollywood Studios for a while (maybe all of 2020).

I think the new attractions will have the same 'problem' that SDMT and FoP and SDD had .. and thus they may simply just have all new attractions NOT have FP. The problem those two attractions seemed to have:
1) The "free" fast pass couldn't be had (even at 60 days) UNLESS you had a resort stay of at least 5+ days and looked for it at the tail end of your trip. That just makes unhappy guests.
2) Because of the free FP .. the standby lines balloon to almost unmanageable lengths (creating crowd control issues as lines spill into walkways, etc.)

Which -- I predict -- opens up a new 'tiered' FP+ system. None of the "Tier 1" rides (Star Wars, Tron, Guardians, Ratouille, etc.) will have "free" Fast Passes. They may just do virtual queues OR ... you pay an upcharge for a FP for those (thus decreasing their demand and creating revenue) .. and free Fast Passes are only available for the current existing "Tier 2" attractions.

There are simply too many people wanting a FP for these brand new attractions .. it seems like at least going FP free (like MFSR) or virtual queue (like Rise) is the way to go for any brand new top-tier attraction (like Tron, Ratatouille, Guardians, Mickey's Runaway Railway, etc.)
 
Which -- I predict -- opens up a new 'tiered' FP+ system. None of the "Tier 1" rides (Star Wars, Tron, Guardians, Ratouille, etc.) will have "free" Fast Passes. They may just do virtual queues OR ... you pay an upcharge for a FP for those (thus decreasing their demand and creating revenue) .. and free Fast Passes are only available for the current existing "Tier 2" attractions.
I think this is spot on. It's almost like a return to the days of "E-ticket" attractions. If E-Ticket Attractions also required that you first pay $170 to get into the park to have the option of purchasing a ticket for them.

Edit: I do hope they don't just go the MFSR approach though for the kid-friendly rides like Ratatouille. That'll prevent parents with toddlers/infants from riding those with their children, because it's just not possible to wait on a 60-90 minute line with a toddler. Boarding Pass / Virtual Queue with paid fastpass upgrade possibility would be so much better. Really in an ideal world, the theme park of tomorrow should only have virtual queue's, allowing guests to spend their time (and money) in other huger venues in the park.
 


I suspect the "free fastpass" option for new etickets might get reserved for Club Level guests at a plus to the stay on that level. Once they do make whatever changes the end up making to the fastpass system the rest of us will have to pay for a upgrade to our fast passes to include those top tier rides. As they gear up for the 50th and get closer to it for WDW we should find out more in the fiscal 2020 year to know if that is going to be something they are looking at for what is expected to be a busy year. We might possibly learn more at this years Destination D at WDW
 
I think this is spot on. It's almost like a return to the days of "E-ticket" attractions. If E-Ticket Attractions also required that you first pay $170 to get into the park to have the option of purchasing a ticket for them.
Well .. it's not like you can't go on the ride -- you just can't SKIP the line.

If they do offer "paid" fastpasses, hopefully standby lines are shorter for those Tier 1 rides.

But the fact that it has been 4+ months and MFSR is still FP free seems like an indication they are in no rush to implement it.
I think the current system just makes guests feel better. Instead of "not getting a FP for a ride" you just wait in a very fast moving line OR you get put in a virtual queue (letting you do other things).

I wonder if WDW will expand the virtual queue thing to other rides though. It seems pretty amazing. If I am not standing in line -- I am buying food .. or snacks .. or browsing a store (that I normally don't have time for until the END of the day) or watching a show (that I normally never see) it disperses crowds and gets them to buy stuff.
 
I wonder if WDW will expand the virtual queue thing to other rides though. It seems pretty amazing. If I am not standing in line -- I am buying food .. or snacks .. or browsing a store (that I normally don't have time for until the END of the day) or watching a show (that I normally never see) it disperses crowds and gets them to buy stuff.
I mean technically FP+ (and for that matter paper FP was) is a virtual queue so people are already doing what you suggest. However, it's just that the virtual queue is more in line with Disneyland's MaxPass system in how you obtain in (on your phone after you enter the park). I understand, people find that FP+ is unfair because you have to be staying on site for 5+ days for big rides (which hasn't ever been the case for me over Thanksgiving week or October trips) but a pure virtual queue system could also be argued unfair (must be able to be in the park right at rope drop); plus it really limits Disney's ability to move crowds because people are going to crowd one park in the morning (the one with the ride that everyone wants). Also the virtual queues system currently in place doesn't guarantee you a ride (they might cut your boarding group off) and there is no recourse for those who can't make it to park at rope drop (no standby line). I think the bigger point with the virtual queue used on ROTR is just that Disney doesn't have any obligations to clear a standby line and can simply not call boarding groups, so they can keep fixing the ride easily without much impact to large amounts of guests.

Personally I think we will see FP return to the GE rides eventually and maybe some expansion of the Club level FP program or some "enchancements" to tickets that require a fee to FP+. Though I don't really see an abandonment of the FP+ system on a large scale.
 


Well .. it's not like you can't go on the ride -- you just can't SKIP the line.

If they do offer "paid" fastpasses, hopefully standby lines are shorter for those Tier 1 rides.

But the fact that it has been 4+ months and MFSR is still FP free seems like an indication they are in no rush to implement it.
I think the current system just makes guests feel better. Instead of "not getting a FP for a ride" you just wait in a very fast moving line OR you get put in a virtual queue (letting you do other things).

I wonder if WDW will expand the virtual queue thing to other rides though. It seems pretty amazing. If I am not standing in line -- I am buying food .. or snacks .. or browsing a store (that I normally don't have time for until the END of the day) or watching a show (that I normally never see) it disperses crowds and gets them to buy stuff.
Don't get me wrong, I think the VQ system is great, and having it for everything would also be great. That said, it would require some substantial capacity increases for guest experiences in the park. To a large extent the long queue's themselves are "people eaters." Take away the queue's and you're going to need a little more for the guests to do while they're waiting on virtual queue's.

Edit: I agree that VQ does need to be changed though so that it's not just for rope-droppers.
 
The Boarding Pass system mostly protects against operational failures for the Attraction. It's also used to control crowds obviously, but you don't want people in a standby line for 2 hours and then the attraction malfunctions.

As soon as they feel it's relatively stable and when we get out of the "buzz period" about the attraction (Maybe 6 months - 1 year), I believe the Boarding Groups will go to the wayside.

The other upcoming attractions have opening FastPasses+ Tier 1 all over them.

EDIT: SW attractions will have FP+ at some point. Guessing 2021 or 2022.
 
I may be in the minority here, but I DON'T think they will go to paid fastpasses. Reason being, they would rather make the park more expensive for everyone, and make all of the rides and attractions available to everyone. Think about how Disney started - with admission nearly free and ticket books to get on everything. I am old enough to remember when they transitioned to passports, then included the rides in the admission price for all. It was WILDLY popular. You may find someone who is nostalgic about the ticket books but believe me, it sucked! You either didn't have enough of one kind of ticket, or ended up with too many of another. It was a constant headache. Disney is not going back to that or anything like it.

I also don't think they will do away with fastpasses because that is a free way to offer a perk to stay on property. Don't know if you've noticed - staying on property is very expensive! You can stay at really nice places off-property for a lot less, but you won't get advanced access to Fastpasses or free transportation to your hotel. Those are big perks, worth the extra $$.
 
I may be in the minority here, but I DON'T think they will go to paid fastpasses. Reason being, they would rather make the park more expensive for everyone, and make all of the rides and attractions available to everyone. Think about how Disney started - with admission nearly free and ticket books to get on everything. I am old enough to remember when they transitioned to passports, then included the rides in the admission price for all. It was WILDLY popular. You may find someone who is nostalgic about the ticket books but believe me, it sucked! You either didn't have enough of one kind of ticket, or ended up with too many of another. It was a constant headache. Disney is not going back to that or anything like it.

I also don't think they will do away with fastpasses because that is a free way to offer a perk to stay on property. Don't know if you've noticed - staying on property is very expensive! You can stay at really nice places off-property for a lot less, but you won't get advanced access to Fastpasses or free transportation to your hotel. Those are big perks, worth the extra $$.

I agree. They added paid FP+ where they could with the Club Level. It's not going anywhere.
 
The issue I see with paid FP is the loyal Fan who goes multiple times a year. Are they going to pay for a FP on a ride that they have been on multiple times? I go 2 or 3 times a year (DVC member) and there is no way I would pay to go on Splash Mountain which I have been on over 75 times in my lifetime. I go now with grandkids when we can get a FP. My wife and I have personal limit of 30 min wait on any ride we do not have a FP. Now the new rides, that is tricky--- but most likely since we stay at DVC would wait for early morning entry and go to new rides at rope drop.
 
I agree. They added paid FP+ where they could with the Club Level. It's not going anywhere.
The only way they add paid FP is by removing the free ones (somewhat) - like .. everyone only gets TWO freebies and you can pay for one more.
OR
You get two Free "Tier 2" Fast Passes and you can pay for one "Tier 1" FP with a new ticket option add-on (like hoppers are).
A lot of people pay for the ability to hop between parks in one day .. people will pay for the ability to skip the lines on Tier 1 rides easily.

I just feel that Disney needs to do something to get people into their new attractions without potentially waiting in a 3-4 hour line (like FoP or like Hagrid's was (at Universal)). You get a lot of disappointed guests who come to WDW to experience the new stuff and leave disappointed when they can't get a FP for that key ride and simply don't want to waste their vacation waiting in a 2+ hour standby line).

I think what they've done for SWGE seems to be working pretty well -- though there is some flaws to the boarding group thing.

Anyway .. back to the main topic.
IF they decide to just do normal tiering with the opening of Ratatouille and Mickey's Railway in the next 6 months .. I would see this:

1) Making Ratatouille a Tier 1 ride at Epcot along with Frozen, Test Track and Soarin. There is simply no way to drop one of those to Tier 2. They are all too popular. If Disney continues on with the current FP+ system .. they will need to do more tiering to distribute the FPs. The problem is .. there will always be that "new" ride that everyone will be going for (even if other good things are Tier 1).

2) Just simply adding Mickey's to Tier 1 at DHS .. and maybe dropping a ride like Alien Swirling Saucer to Tier 2 along with Star Tours .. *shrug* .. (or just continue leaving everything at Tier 1 -- it needs it if they continue to not have FPs for SWGE).
 
The Boarding Pass system mostly protects against operational failures for the Attraction. It's also used to control crowds obviously, but you don't want people in a standby line for 2 hours and then the attraction malfunctions.

As soon as they feel it's relatively stable and when we get out of the "buzz period" about the attraction (Maybe 6 months - 1 year), I believe the Boarding Groups will go to the wayside.

The other upcoming attractions have opening FastPasses+ Tier 1 all over them.

EDIT: SW attractions will have FP+ at some point. Guessing 2021 or 2022.
Mickey's Runaway Train doesn't have fastpasses. We're already in the 60 day window for booking for some guests who have reported that it's not an option.
 
Mickey's Runaway Train doesn't have fastpasses. We're already in the 60 day window for booking for some guests who have reported that it's not an option.
I mean sure Runaway Railway is having issues running consistently. They already delayed it twice (for sure it was once). So I could still see an argument made there to leave of FP. Now if they operate it like Smugglers Run then I would be confused because Smugglers Run always seemed like a practical crowd control issue not to offer it. But with Runaway Railway in the middle of the park crowd control issue really can't be the reason not to offer it but have only a normal stand by line.
 
I think they're going to revamp the fastpass system in time for the 50th anniversary and add upcharge options. I doubt they change/fix the tiers in HS until this happens.

This, I think that the Fastpass system as we know it is going to be drastically changed. My guess is you'll get one free and then have to pay to add additional FP+, or, that they'll do a FP+ tier system in that your tickets include the same 3 FP+ but only for lower tiered rides/shows, and then you'll have to pay to add Tier one rides. I mean who really knows, but that they're going to change it to a paid system in the not distance future I think is a given.
 
The reason there are so many rides in tier 1 at HS and Epcot is there just aren't that many ride to begin with. That forces you to decide to ride a less popular ride that you maybe wouldn't have gone on. Once they add a few more rides the tiers will change -but- change takes time. I could easily see TSMM, Soarin' and Aliens go to tier 2 in the near future. Are Mary Poppins and Ratatouille really expected to be worthy of a tier 1? Maybe just because they are new 🤷‍♂️
 
I know I said I don't see paid FP's coming but there is this; what if they offered FP's to on-property but you had to pay for them if you were staying somewhere else? I could see the AP's going up-in-arms about that, but still...
 
Mickey's Runaway Train doesn't have fastpasses. We're already in the 60 day window for booking for some guests who have reported that it's not an option.
I think this may be another reason they may just go with new rides NOT starting with FP -- simply because of the logistics of getting people to sign up for FPs 60 days in advance with it not even being guaranteed the ride will open 60 days out. They have to worry about upset guests if the ride opens late .. and dealing with compensating those guests with another FP .. etc. etc. Much easier to just open it without FP and let everyone stand in line together. :)

If Mickey's opens without a FP -- I think that will be the future - new rides NOT opening with FP.

Think about it this way. A new ride doesn't open with FP -- thus creating HUGE demand for those Fast Passes --- and then they whip out the paid FP option for those rides that don't have a FP. Its a way to roll out a paid FP system without totally upending the system. When a ride NEVER had a "free" FP option to begin with, not as much a shock to offer a PAID FP for it.
 
Rat is a great ride and worth a fast pass is it tier 1 probably more so then Frozen for ride quality. I enjoyed it in Paris this year as for Mary Poppins, I dont think we know enough about it to make that decision. Epcot is also a different beast though than Hollywood Studios, for some of us, Epcot is less about the rides and more about the festivals and experiences. Im not talking about drinking around the world here. I suspect Guardians of the Galaxy will also be a teir 1. As for the rest of the rides. I could see the need to actually make either soarin or test track a teir 2 after the rest of Epcot is done being reimagined. This would be a few years off but Soarin in itself has multiple theaters and its show building is pretty empty and could easily be a people eater once newer attractions are available. I know not everyone might agree but give it time if they keep the fast pass system as it is, I really think it could be a inevitable tier 2
 

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