New Future Disneyland Hotel

No more hand outs like the Mickey and Friends parking deck which was the biggest example of corporate welfare I've ever seen. Disney has probably made billions of dollars and kept every penny of it and has never repaid the city for the construction of that parking deck that the city paid for and sold to Disney for 1 DOLLAR.
You keep repeating this. Do you understand how the bond for this project worked? I know the soon to be former mayor keeps wording it like this. But have you delved deeper into how it actually works? If it was truly as you said, the excess $105 million could be used to help their massive unfunded pension plan, because Disney would have no say in how it was done.

In 1996, Anaheim wanted to clean up Anaheim. They wanted to make Anaheim more attractive to travelers. Disneyland was going to build DCA. It was going to need more parking since they were taking out the parking lot to build DCA. They were also going to put in DTD. Disney and Anaheim struck a bargain. Anaheim would include a parking structure and the "flyover" lanes to the parking structure (about $95 million) in the $400 million in bonds to clean up around Anaheim, widen streets, remove the flashing signs, replaced with monument style signs, move electrical and telephone lines underground, improve the area around the convention center, improve the area around the Amtrak station/the then Edison Field, etc.. Disney would agree to use its AAA corporate bond rating to cover the bonds, giving Anaheim a lower interest rate on the bonds, Disney would guarantee the bonds (if Anaheim could not cover the $400 million, Disney would pay them off) and to create the extra income to pay these bonds, the hotel occupancy tax would increase 3%. (It used to be about 14%, jumped to 17%) Just on Disney resort hotels, this would create an extra $4.8 million per year the first few years. (Closer to $9 million a year now.) When the bonds are paid off, Anaheim is to sell the building back to Disney for $1. And revert the occupancy tax. Because Disney backed and guaranteed the bonds, they are able to say "If the 3% occupancy tax for a given year, the excess must be put in escrow for future payments and cannot be moved to the general fund." This is what irks the mayor most. They feel they should be able to take this tax money that was earmarked for a specific project, and move it to where they have screwed up.

And it hasn't been sold to Disney yet. Disney is still on the hook for the bonds for another 16/17 years. So, *I* don't view it as a hand out. Anaheim got what they wanted, backed by Disney. The taxes collected for the project are not coming out of the pocket of the people who live in Anaheim, it is being paid for the tourists who pay the occupancy taxes.
 
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Just a gentle reminder that it's okay to disagree, but let's keep it respectful. Also, since politics are not allowed on the DIS, unless we can keep this really civil I will have to close the thread, which would be a shame, because this has been a good discussion.
 
I can appreciate your view but I enjoy spending my time most where I can effect change and nobody here is going to change anyone's mind on these issues concerning Disney.

I don't know about that. I've enjoyed hearing others views. And it has helped me to think differently.
I lean libertarian, and so I tend to think the government should stay out of everyone's business (and that businesses shouldn't receive money from the government). I would have thought that if it's worthwhile for Disney to build, they can do it without the government's help. But I'm learning that they might make a decision that benefits the citizens and the business. Open, respectful discussion is always a good thing.
 


You keep repeating this. Do you understand how the bond for this project worked? I know the soon to be former mayor keeps wording it like this. But have you delved deeper into how it actually works? If it was truly as you said, the excess $105 million could be used to help their massive unfunded pension plan, because Disney would have no say in how it was done.

In 1996, Anaheim wanted to clean up Anaheim. They wanted to make Anaheim more attractive to travelers. Disneyland was going to build DCA. It was going to need more parking since they were taking out the parking lot to build DCA. They were also going to put in DTD. Disney and Anaheim struck a bargain. Anaheim would include a parking structure and the "flyover" lanes to the parking structure (about $95 million) in the $400 million in bonds to clean up around Anaheim, widen streets, remove the flashing signs, replaced with monument style signs, move electrical and telephone lines underground, improve the area around the convention center, improve the area around the Amtrak station/the then Edison Field, etc.. Disney would agree to use its AAA corporate bond rating to cover the bonds, giving Anaheim a lower interest rate on the bonds, Disney would guarantee the bonds (if Anaheim could not cover the $400 million, Disney would pay them off) and to create the extra income to pay these bonds, the hotel occupancy tax would increase 3%. (It used to be about 14%, jumped to 17%) Just on Disney resort hotels, this would create an extra $4.8 million per year the first few years. (Closer to $9 million a year now.) When the bonds are paid off, Anaheim is to sell the building back to Disney for $1. And revert the occupancy tax. Because Disney backed and guaranteed the bonds, they are able to say "If the 3% occupancy tax for a given year, the excess must be put in escrow for future payments and cannot be moved to the general fund." This is what irks the mayor most. They feel they should be able to take this tax money that was earmarked for a specific project, and move it to where they have screwed up.

And it hasn't been sold to Disney yet. Disney is still on the hook for the bonds for another 16/17 years. So, *I* don't view it as a hand out. Anaheim got what they wanted, backed by Disney. The taxes collected for the project are not coming out of the pocket of the people who live in Anaheim, it is being paid for the tourists who pay the occupancy taxes.

Where one stands on an issue depends on where one sits. Like I said in my prior post, discussing this anymore is a waste of time. Nobody is changing anyone's mind on this. Have a nice day.
 
... I've enjoyed hearing others views. And it has helped me to think differently... Open, respectful discussion is always a good thing.

Agree with this wholeheartedly.

To everyone participating here: Whether we agree or disagree, let's all keep our discussion respectful and courteous. Thank you!

Where one stands on an issue depends on where one sits. Like I said in my prior post, discussing this anymore is a waste of time. Nobody is changing anyone's mind on this. Have a nice day.

It might be a waste of time to you in your opinion. But learning about both sides of an issue doesn't make it a waste of other's time. As I said above, let's keep this respectful and courteous.
 
It might be a waste of time to you in your opinion. But learning about both sides of an issue doesn't make it a waste of other's time. As I said above, let's keep this respectful and courteous.
This was my issue years ago. I've had to learn to investigate on my own since parties have major agendas. Probably 10 years ago I heard about the the structure, and could not believe a government agency would just build an expensive place, then give it to a business. And so I went looking. And that is how I learn. I know I need to understand all sides of an issue before I can take a stand. My kids laugh when I get curious on something, as I tend to do rabbit holes (start researching one thing, and it tunnels off in a different direction.) I love reading others opinions as I find something I didn't know, and it can give me a weekend of research!
 


This ......... as I tend to do rabbit holes (start researching one thing, and it tunnels off in a different direction.) I love reading others opinions as I find something I didn't know, and it can give me a weekend of research!

And how I love all the rabbit holes you have followed to bring us great insightful information.....from Candlelight to large family gatherings and your help on DAS...none of that has helped with my touring Disneyland....but still helped me understand both sides of the issue. Thank you for your hard work!!!! And making me a better Disneyland citizen.
 
I don't know about that. I've enjoyed hearing others views. And it has helped me to think differently.
I lean libertarian, and so I tend to think the government should stay out of everyone's business (and that businesses shouldn't receive money from the government). I would have thought that if it's worthwhile for Disney to build, they can do it without the government's help. But I'm learning that they might make a decision that benefits the citizens and the business. Open, respectful discussion is always a good thing.
I'm on the strange side. Most believe I lean liberal, as I am pretty compassionate. Others say I lean conservative due to my business followings. Reality really is, I look at issues, read them over, drop down a few rabbit holes, and make up my mind on what I find. My vote can be all over the place. It irritates a lot of my friends.
 
I'm on the strange side. Most believe I lean liberal, as I am pretty compassionate. Others say I lean conservative due to my business followings. Reality really is, I look at issues, read them over, drop down a few rabbit holes, and make up my mind on what I find. My vote can be all over the place. It irritates a lot of my friends.
I believe that's what we all should be doing. "Voracious readers and independent thinkers" is what a mentor used to say. My problem is that voracious reading (and even independent thinking) takes a whole lot of time. I have difficulty making time to do much of it.
 
I'm on the strange side. Most believe I lean liberal, as I am pretty compassionate. Others say I lean conservative due to my business followings. Reality really is, I look at issues, read them over, drop down a few rabbit holes, and make up my mind on what I find. My vote can be all over the place. It irritates a lot of my friends.

I believe that's what we all should be doing. "Voracious readers and independent thinkers" is what a mentor used to say. My problem is that voracious reading (and even independent thinking) takes a whole lot of time. I have difficulty making time to do much of it.

Amen and amen. As someone used to say to me (over and over!), "If the good Lord saw fit to graciously give you a mind, the least you can do is see fit to make good use of it!" And making good use of my mind is never a waste of time.
 
Anyone interested in Anaheim politics in relation to Disney might want to follow the wdwmagic Disneyland forum.

In particular posts by Darkbeer (familiar name on several boards), who actually attends Anaheim City Council meetings.

Thank you for posting this! I was born and raised in Southern CA. Moved to AZ for a job.
Anyone interested in Anaheim politics in relation to Disney might want to follow the wdwmagic Disneyland forum.

In particular posts by Darkbeer (familiar name on several boards), who actually attends Anaheim City Council meetings.


Thank you for posting this link!
 
This was my issue years ago. I've had to learn to investigate on my own since parties have major agendas. Probably 10 years ago I heard about the the structure, and could not believe a government agency would just build an expensive place, then give it to a business. And so I went looking. And that is how I learn. I know I need to understand all sides of an issue before I can take a stand. My kids laugh when I get curious on something, as I tend to do rabbit holes (start researching one thing, and it tunnels off in a different direction.) I love reading others opinions as I find something I didn't know, and it can give me a weekend of research!

I read this post and smiled, because I could have written it! Having all the facts is key to making an informative decision. Keeping abreast of a situation is so important too. Knowledge is power! Great post!
 
....but it is important that folks here flesh out the issues, it is part of the democracy that we function in, always discuss matters that direct your daily lives, whether or not you have the vote, disabled family members, children in strollers, cell phones.....cutting in line. Being aware of issues is important so that you can understand what waits ahead.....become involved in critical thinking. Having moved to Arizona, on the border...I am very disappointed in my lack of participation when l lived in Oregon about the border issue. It is a real problem that the other 46 states do not have a grasp on border issues and wish not to have forums about the issues facing the four border states. Discussing here taxes, contracts and buried gas tanks allows us to formulate to what....honestly does matter to all of us.
The Anaheim tax issue DOES affect us. The majority of all taxes raised for the city of Anaheim are paid for by visitors to the Disneyland Resort. So while the citizens of Anaheim get to vote on tax initiatives, it is the non-citizens who pay the taxes. When they add an entertainment tax, it will affect a few citizens who go to ball games or concerts, but the majority will be the ticket holders paying the tax on tickets, whether it is a $1 per ticket, $1 per day, or 4-5%.
 
This conversation is riding that "no political talk on the DISboards" line. Please don't continue in that vein. (Sorry)
 
I am still confused as to how Disney came to choose the west end of DTD for the hotel? Leaving the tax questions, incentives, aside, the location just doesn't make sense to me. Is there any other property that has two hotels literally on top of one another (existing DL Hotel and proposed new DL Hotel). The only ones that come to mind are DW's Yacht and Beach Club but those are essentially variations of a theme.

If the DTD location is the only suitable location it seems to me the best course of action would be to do it as an expansion of the existing DL Hotel.
 
The DTD side is their owned property. Building it behind Paradise Pier hotel doesn't make sense as you don't want to place a 4 diamond hotel where it's "view" would be a 2 Diamond. Putting it behind the Harbor hotels wouldn't make sense either.
 
The DTD side is their owned property. Building it behind Paradise Pier hotel doesn't make sense as you don't want to place a 4 diamond hotel where it's "view" would be a 2 Diamond. Putting it behind the Harbor hotels wouldn't make sense either.
The original plot they were going to build on was the DTD parking lot.
 

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