News Story about separate math classes rubs me wrong way. Bit of a rant.

[gopher101]

I just wan to clarify my stance a bit. The separate classes, I am all for. If it helps the kids learn, lets do what we can.

The problem I had which how the story was presented, not the boys themselves, but the reporter. I think they could have found better ways to make the story where it did not seem to place blame on girls.

 

[CarolAnn856]

I just wan to clarify my stance a bit. The separate classes, I am all for. If it helps the kids learn, lets do what we can.

The problem I had which how the story was presented, not the boys themselves, but the reporter. I think they could have found better ways to make the story where it did not seem to place blame on girls.

What, specifically, did they say that you didn't like? And what do you think they should have said?

I watched the clip and read the article. All references to distraction were of the "boys are easily distracted by girls" variety, as opposed to "girls distract boys." The semantics matter here. The former suggests that it's the boys' issue for getting distracted, whereas the latter seems to place blame on girls. I didn't see evidence of the latter.

As for the classes, it does bother me that girls are not being afforded the same opportunity. Even if their grades are better than boys in co-ed classes, perhaps they would be even higher in single-sex classes. Shouldn't they get the chance to participate in this experiment as well? Or does the school board only care about equalizing achievement instead of maximing it?

 

[mummabear]

There have been studies that show middle and high school girls do better in math and science when boys are not in the class. Why? Because they don't want the boys to think they're smart. The girls are afraid that boys don't want to date smart girls. There were more than a few schools around the country that tried separate classes so the girls would be more comfortable asking and answering questions.

Yes it has been shown that girls do better in girls only classes.
I am ok with schools having a single sex class if they are offering to for both sexes but not if they are only creating that opportunity for one.

On the flip side while it has been shown that academically kids do better in single sex schools (has the research shown differences between single sex schools and single sex classes? Here we have loads of single sex schools but no single sex classes in co Ed schools)
But has there been research into the difference in achievement levels at University/college? In the workplace?
Do the kids that have been learning in single sex places do better because they are ahead academically or so they worse becuase they haven’t learnt how to deal with the distraction?

 

[DisneyOma]

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/M...periments-With-All-Boy-Classes-451688663.html

It is not the fact, they are separating the classes. If it helps the kids learn I am all for it.

It the fact they keep saying the girls are distracting the boys. They even laugh like it is some big joke. Like the girls are causing the boys to not succeed. So what is it the girls fault because they are daring to sit in the same room and learn also. With everything coming out about sexual assault, why are we still saying things like this. Why can we not teach the boys to pay attention and not ogle the girls. The girls want to learn just like the boys. It is part of that mind set that help set up bad things like, you cannot say anything, it is your fault just by being a girl/women. It is really grating to me and kind of pisses me off. I know once again it is suppose to be tongue in check.

Does this grate anyone else the wrong way?

Bothers me that the boys aren't expected to just behave, in any situation. And what about gender-neutral students? Or gay students?

I went to a unisex high school so I might have a different thought on the subject. I do believe that there are less distractions...in both directions. The problem isn't the separation (sounds like this was done as an expirement and not mandated) but rather in the coverage. Is there an all girl class? Have they seen the same benefits? Boys are just as distracting to girls at that age as the reverse. And "distracting" doesn't mean you're sitting there ogling and not paying attention necessarily. It can be little things like not speaking up because you're afraid of talking in front of a crush, or worrying about how you look that day instead of focusing on academics, etc.

And how do you work past those issues? Instead, they are teaching kids that avoidance is best.

I've always been under the impression that boys and girls do better in school when segregated. Less distraction. I usually hear this argument to justify separate classes, especially in math and sciences, for girls. I was a closeted gay boy when I was in school in the '60s and '70s but I wasn't distracted by anyone. The girls didn't interest me and I didn't dare pay undue attention to the boys.

That's sad. Sorry you felt closeted - that sucks.

Well, if you looks at school dress codes, there's definitely an element of girls clothing being distracting to boys. Because it's all the girls' fault, doncha know. I have no problem with classes separated by gender, so long as the same material is covered.

Except some kids are gay, some are gender neutral. How does that fit in?

Hip hip hooray for separate boy/girl classes. Probably more productive for everybody IMO. Unless things have radically changed in the few years since my DS was in jr. high (or kids here are very different than kids there) the girls were almost always more interested in the boys than the boys were in them at that age. Adolescent girls can be loud, shrill, flamboyant and very prone to attention seeking.

Although I never sat in on a math class, I was in the school setting quite a bit and observed teachers and supervisors frequently have to "deal with" one or more girls I order to keep things on track. Assuming all girls are paragons of scholarly diligence in a classroom and boys lack of focus can only be due to their nefarious instincts is biased and wrong.

I've found the boys in 9th grade to be much louder and attention seeking than their female counterparts. Not sure how it is in middle school now too, but when my daughters were there, the boys were the more disruptive students in classes, from the stories they told me.

There have been studies that show middle and high school girls do better in math and science when boys are not in the class. Why? Because they don't want the boys to think they're smart. The girls are afraid that boys don't want to date smart girls. There were more than a few schools around the country that tried separate classes so the girls would be more comfortable asking and answering questions.

So, when do the girls learn that it's OK to be the smart ones? When do they get exposed to the smart girls who don't care what the boys think? My daughters never bothered to worry what the boys thought. The ones worth it for them were the ones who thought it was great to have a smart girlfriend. Who wants a boyfriend who needs to be smarter? What a jerk he would be!

 

[Skippy918]

In my experience, the boys were causing a distraction to the girls especially in the middle school years. They would always be goofing off, flinging spit balls and didn’t seem interested in learning. I don’t think any of the boys in my class ever made prinicpal’s list or honor roll. This was my class. I am not saying that all the boys in the whole school were like this.
I did go to an all girls high school and it was a nice change of pace for me. I was there to learn and was able to flourish in that environment.

 

[Colleen27]

It rubs me all sorts of wrong... Not only the coverage, which I agree with you seems to be casually laughing at the idea that boys can't be expected to control themselves when there are girls present, but with the whole program. The fact that "boys not paying attention" is a problem worth solving, while the well-documented disengagement of girls in STEM subjects and the class participation gap in mixed-gender classrooms apparently aren't. I get that it is probably a product of the all-important test scores - girls "playing dumb" still test well and don't disrupt the classroom - but it just strikes me as terrible priority-setting.

BTW, the all boys classes don't mean that there are corresponding all girls sections. The program was by invitation, and the rest of the classes remain co-ed. So it isn't as though the girls are seeing the benefits of single-gender classrooms even as an afterthought; they're still in classes with boys, just not the boys who were identified for the "men of tomorrow" program. The program has about 100 participants out of a school of 900 kids.

 

[monsterkitty]

So, when do the girls learn that it's OK to be the smart ones? When do they get exposed to the smart girls who don't care what the boys think? My daughters never bothered to worry what the boys thought. The ones worth it for them were the ones who thought it was great to have a smart girlfriend. Who wants a boyfriend who needs to be smarter? What a jerk he would be!

I agree, if they are separated by gender now, how will they learn that it doesn't matter what boys think of them? However, I teach middle school and I see students of both genders not asking or answering questions because they are embarrassed or shy. There are over 400 schools in the nation that have segregated classes by gender to increase scores. It would be interesting to see if those schools who do separate by gender allow parents to opt out of the segregated classes in favor of a traditional class of mixed gender.

ETA - Had a band of 55 students one time. 51 boys and 4 girls. It was a huge challenge and every child who was expelled from our school that year was in that class. It was the year after Columbine and the 7 who were expelled were fascinated by Klebold and Harris. After those 7 were removed from school the class became fun and were kick-butt players!

 

[Colleen27]

I agree, if they are separated by gender now, how will they learn that it doesn't matter what boys think of them?

I don't think there's any evidence that they're learning that in mixed-gender classes, though. Most kids attend co-ed schools and yet the participation gap persists into college for young women, which suggests they're getting the message that the ways they held themselves back in middle and high school are appropriate, not learning to speak out without regard for what their male classmates think. I don't think single gender education is a silver bullet solution to these issues, but I also don't think "learning to get over it" is a valid argument for disregarding the real issues that co-ed education presents for girls.

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

So, when do the girls learn that it's OK to be the smart ones? When do they get exposed to the smart girls who don't care what the boys think? My daughters never bothered to worry what the boys thought. The ones worth it for them were the ones who thought it was great to have a smart girlfriend. Who wants a boyfriend who needs to be smarter? What a jerk he would be!

Sadly, this often perpetuates into womanhood. Even successful women have to figure out how to navigate in a man's world to ny upset them or seem off putting.

So many articles and career coaching of women focuses on choosing your words carefully in a meeting so you don't sound too direct and come across as aggressive!!!

 

[mummabear]

I don't think there's any evidence that they're learning that in mixed-gender classes, though. Most kids attend co-ed schools and yet the participation gap persists into college for young women, which suggests they're getting the message that the ways they held themselves back in middle and high school are appropriate, not learning to speak out without regard for what their male classmates think. I don't think single gender education is a silver bullet solution to these issues, but I also don't think "learning to get over it" is a valid argument for disregarding the real issues that co-ed education presents for girls.

It’s not just about speaking up and asking questions which is a very important and valid concern.
But also about both sexes being distracted by each other, having to work with people they have crushes on, have hooked up with it and remaining professional, personally I would rather my daughters learnt those lessons and made those mistakes at 14/15 than in college/work situations.
I have personally seen huge differences socially between teenagers attending a single sex school (not class but whole school) and those attending co-ed schools. Single sex classes in core subjects at co-ed schools may be a good medium ground.
As long as there is single sex classes for both secs not just males as this experiment seems to be.