No more volunteers for DLR races?

[wilkeliza]

Going from memory the issue with Competitor is that the fees for the races never went to the charities. The fees went to Competitor and the charities were really only allowed to be a presence. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I am not sure exactly how that works with Disney. If even a portion of the registration fees go the charities then I suspect this has nothing to do with that lawsuit. Of course I think all profit from the races should go to the charities like most races do after operating and promotional costs are deducted but that is something I previously mentioned on the saturation thread so I won't rehash it further here.

The accounting works differently at DL than WDW so this very well might not make it to WDW. At DL I suspect Disney is less likely to recuperate the lost ticket revenue with other in park purchases. This is because more guests (and I would bet as an extension more volunteers) are locals, more stay off property, more leave to eat, and more stay a shorter duration. At WDW giving away a single park day to someone more likely to be staying in your hotel, eating every meal in your restaurants, and paying to get into the parks more days before and/or after your one comped day makes more financial sense.

Back during the give a day get a Disney day promotion I volunteered and got a free day in the parks. Because I had that free day I registered for and ran the Wine & Dine half, stayed two nights in a Disney resort, ate every meal for two days in Disney restaurants, and bought merchandise. I would not have even made the trip without that free day. Disney made their single park admission back many times over on me. At WDW I think the free single park admission is a loss leader that translates better to net positive revenue than it does at DL.

Just some speculation on my part.

The accounting is the same at runDisney though. runDisney is a separate entity to the parks and there isn't a runDisney DL division and runDisney WDW division it is just runDisney under a global umbrella. So not sure if the different parks will have much change on it. This could just be a test since the DL races are smaller.

 

[bumbershoot]

I know for a fact volunteers have a habit of stealing medals. Maybe since people will be paid they can police that. I know I've worked many retail jobs where you had to turn out pockets and have bags inspected every night when you left. Even Disney does random searches of park CMs both coming and going from work.

Wow.

And you reminded me of people talking about the volunteers a couple years ago who took pictures of shirts etc andnout them on social media as they packed them for the expo. Easier to control that as an employer. Or as the employer contracting with a temp agency, which could impact other temp jobs for someone who is naughty while on the job.

 

[wilkeliza]

Wow.

And you reminded me of people talking about the volunteers a couple years ago who took pictures of shirts etc andnout them on social media as they packed them for the expo. Easier to control that as an employer. Or as the employer contracting with a temp agency, which could impact other temp jobs for someone who is naughty while on the job.

The worst part is they are usually also runners who decided to sit out that race and volunteer but still want the medal when it is announced. I know a lot of BB-8s walked off. Rarely does Disney run out of medals but they have run out of them before and this is the only legit reason I can think of because they usually over order to make up for broken or bad looking ones and for runDisney to have a replacement stock.

 

[bumbershoot]

The worst part is they are usually also runners who decided to sit out that race and volunteer but still want the medal when it is announced. I know a lot of BB-8s walked off. Rarely does Disney run out of medals but they have run out of them before and this is the only legit reason I can think of because they usually over order to make up for broken or bad looking ones and for runDisney to have a replacement stock.

I had NO idea. When I volunteered we didn't even take the space blankets when we were hiding from the cold in the first aid tent! (January 5K in 2015, so we were cold)

 

[Chasing Dopey]

I'm a little late to this, so sorry for dragging it back up a week and half later, but I couldn't resist chiming in.

The accounting is the same at runDisney though. runDisney is a separate entity to the parks and there isn't a runDisney DL division and runDisney WDW division it is just runDisney under a global umbrella. So not sure if the different parks will have much change on it. This could just be a test since the DL races are smaller.

Wellll... not exactly. The status of "runDisney" as an entity is actually a bit of a mystery, because there are two separate management companies for each coast: Track Shack in Orlando, and Spectrum Sports Management out of Claremont, CA. rD may be mostly an umbrella brand under which all their events fall. We know customer service is unified as rD through email and phone (so it makes sense they often don't have the correct information since the management is split). Beyond that, we have no idea who 'runDisney' actually is, or what the financial relationship is between them, Walt Disney Parks and Resorts US Inc, and Track Shack/Spectrum. (There's also something called Disney Sports Attractions, which may just be the legal name for runDisney, but I don't know.)

Re: the lawsuit... Count on it. One reason this may be happening in California and not Florida (yet) is because it's California. They may have heard rumblings that something is coming. (The original suit was brought in St. Louis.) If you go to the Spectrum website, they have one of those swell slide shows with positive quotes from industry leaders, including this nice one: "Spectrum Sports Management brings a level of organization and professionalism that is extremely rare in event management. They understand your goals and always deliver on the event!" -Bob Babbitt, The Competitor Group.

Re: cost... At first glance it looks cheaper than the ticket and other benefits, but the calculation of a the added park guest cost/income ratios are, I'm sure, ridiculously complex. So, I'm going to guess this is a wash.

Re: service and atmosphere... I'm sure they will do their best to train the new workers. From what I know of the staffing industry, however, I would bet the difference is noticeable to many. I hope the change isn't dramatic, but I'm not bullish on it.

I'll be watching closely to see what the Tinkerbell runners have to say afterward.

 

[GreatLakes]

The accounting is the same at runDisney though. runDisney is a separate entity to the parks and there isn't a runDisney DL division and runDisney WDW division it is just runDisney under a global umbrella. So not sure if the different parks will have much change on it. This could just be a test since the DL races are smaller.

They may be separate entities on paper but in the end it is all just Disney. Parks, movies, rD, doesn't matter. I have a saying here at work. It doesn't matter which pocket the money goes into or comes out of. At the end of the day we reconcile the whole pair of pants. $10 in each front pocket isn't any different than a $20 in one back pocket. It is all just accounting gymnastics.

 

[Chasing Dopey]

They may be separate entities on paper but in the end it is all just Disney. Parks, movies, rD, doesn't matter. I have a saying here at work. It doesn't matter which pocket the money goes into or comes out of. At the end of the day we reconcile the whole pair of pants. $10 in each front pocket isn't any different than a $20 in one back pocket. It is all just accounting gymnastics.

That's true for Disney's shareholders, but there is much more to it underneath that. A few years ago Disney started the process of separating each of its divisions, with further subdivisions underneath that. At the top levels, even though Buena Vista Studios has had a record-breaking stretch the past few years, none of that money is shared with the parks division. (Hence the cutbacks at WDW and DL in the wake of the costs at Shanghai.) Even within the parks, amusement and resorts were separated into their own sandboxes, and have to sink or swim on their own. For the two races, just being in different states changes how they are managed.

 

[camaker]

They may be separate entities on paper but in the end it is all just Disney. Parks, movies, rD, doesn't matter. I have a saying here at work. It doesn't matter which pocket the money goes into or comes out of. At the end of the day we reconcile the whole pair of pants. $10 in each front pocket isn't any different than a $20 in one back pocket. It is all just accounting gymnastics.

It may end up being accounting gymnastics at the top of the company in the end, but it usually doesn't work that way for sites or departments underneath the top in the large companies I'm familiar with. Each of them will have their own budgets, cross-charging each other for inter-departmental services provided, with consequences for failing to meet individual budgetary targets.

 

[Susi985]

I find the whole situation a bit strange. I have been volunteering for the Disneyland races for years. During the first few races I volunteered for, the runDisney staff emphasized that we, the volunteers, were cast members for the day. We were to provide the best Disney style customer service to runners and spectators, so much so that my shirt said "staff" or something along those lines. (I'll have to pull out my old shirts to get an exact quote)

So, taking that into account, my friends and I tried our best to be accommodating, friendly, and overall be excited for the runners. It helped that the more you volunteer the more you know where things are, and who specifically to address the questions to. These last few races had a completely different feel, especially when it came to Expo shifts. I'm not going to lie, the Expo shifts are not my favorite. The food provided always made me sick, and it's just not as exciting as say, handing out medals to runners, or babies. (I LOVE THE DIAPER DASH! I've been able to place medals on babies!) Yet, we managed to make the Expo feel just as fun. It was really about the runners, we were there for them, and it was just fun meeting so many people, have a quick chat and give them a few encouraging words. Well... the last few times we were told to stop that. We were to literally slap the **** in the bag hand it to them, and tell them to have a good day. The only table that was allowed to have more interaction, was the shirt exchange table. It felt cold and kind of mean to not even be allowed to let the runner see the shirt while I reached under the table for the check in bag. It wasn't like we were holding up the line, as a few encouraging words, or a quick "I love the colors of the shirts this year too!" didn't make us work slower. I don't know... It was just different.

I'm sure there are dishonest people who stole medals, and were all around rude. But most of the people I interacted with were like me. They loved going, and being there. It was fun. Now, we don't have that opportunity anymore. I'm not as inclined to go for a paycheck, as I fear the treatment to those working the races may not be as positive. I don't know. We'll see.

 

[Ariel484]

So...if I hadn't known that these were paid temps, I wouldn't have known this was any different than any other runDisney race. I thought they were great but I have read mixed reviews.

Then I saw this, the other big story to come out of Tink weekend (beside the ill-fated "no characters test"). I wasn't sure it deserved its own thread, but...
https://www.marathoninvestigation.com/2017/05/bib-thief-disney.html

Long story short, a woman went to pick up her PDC bib to find that someone had already signed her name on the line and stolen her bib.

Thief was quickly identified via Social Media - bib was deactivated after the 10K and thief shut down/changed her social media accounts.

My big question, and we'll probably never know - how was she able to pick up someone else's bib?? Was this a consequence of the "new" volunteers - was she not made to show ID? I'm wracking my brain and I can't remember if I was asked for ID or if I just pulled mine out because I knew to show it. I'm wondering if she even needed a waiver, or if she could take advantage of the situation and just say she didn't have hers but was given a bib anyway.

I've read reports of people saying they were accidentally handed bibs that belonged to others, so maybe there was a gap in training...????

 

[croach]

So...if I hadn't known that these were paid temps, I wouldn't have known this was any different than any other runDisney race. I thought they were great but I have read mixed reviews.

Then I saw this, the other big story to come out of Tink weekend (beside the ill-fated "no characters test"). I wasn't sure it deserved its own thread, but...
https://www.marathoninvestigation.com/2017/05/bib-thief-disney.html

Long story short, a woman went to pick up her PDC bib to find that someone had already signed her name on the line and stolen her bib.

Thief was quickly identified via Social Media - bib was deactivated after the 10K and thief shut down/changed her social media accounts.

My big question, and we'll probably never know - how was she able to pick up someone else's bib?? Was this a consequence of the "new" volunteers - was she not made to show ID? I'm wracking my brain and I can't remember if I was asked for ID or if I just pulled mine out because I knew to show it. I'm wondering if she even needed a waiver, or if she could take advantage of the situation and just say she didn't have hers but was given a bib anyway.

I've read reports of people saying they were accidentally handed bibs that belonged to others, so maybe there was a gap in training...????

Like was mentioned in the article, have to wonder if the person the bib originally belonged to posted something in social media and "Patty" picked up the info from there. That means she still either social engineered her way to get the bib or someone didn't check her ID. But that's awful gutsy to go the expo and hope the volunteer just doesn't go through the proper procedure right? And since she has apparently done it more than once it makes it even more "interesting." But at least she was in the spirit and dressed up!

 

[Ariel484]

Like was mentioned in the article, have to wonder if the person the bib originally belonged to posted something in social media and "Patty" picked up the info from there. That means she still either social engineered her way to get the bib or someone didn't check her ID. But that's awful gutsy to go the expo and hope the volunteer just doesn't go through the proper procedure right? And since she has apparently done it more than once it makes it even more "interesting." But at least she was in the spirit and dressed up!

I just don't know what to think - you're right that she's clearly a seasoned pro at this! I just don't get how she did it.

I was surprised she didn't at least wear the bib on her back, because that's how she was found out - showed up in pictures and people recognized her. Crazy!!

 

[Chasing Dopey]

First, I'm thrilled to hear that new hires were energetic and supportive during the weekend. I was really concerned about that, and glad to be wrong about it.

Second, since the gal who stole the bib has done it repeatedly, she's clearly practiced at it. It's a tough reminder that there are a lot of shady people out there who manipulate the well-meaning for their own gain. She's your basic con artist. (Although, anyone who has worked retail knows a LOT of people do what they can to get discounted and/or free stuff, and succeed often enough.)

HOWEVER... Even in the case of Disney, you can get access to a lot of information about who is running. Through these threads there have been links to sites that we use to get to our bib numbers before the info is officially emailed to us. It's not difficult to find out that Jane Doe, F, 37, from Clarksville is bib# 12345 for the Challenge.

I'm not a huge fan of witch hunts, but I am somewhat satisfied that these people are run underground. Not proud of that, but there it is.

 

[cavepig]

My big question, and we'll probably never know - how was she able to pick up someone else's bib?? Was this a consequence of the "new" volunteers - was she not made to show ID? I'm wracking my brain and I can't remember if I was asked for ID or if I just pulled mine out because I knew to show it. I'm wondering if she even needed a waiver, or if she could take advantage of the situation and just say she didn't have hers but was given a bib anyway.

My brother didn't show his ID for the Dark Side 5k bib (they didn't ask & he forgot, only realized it when for the challenge they asked for his ID), so don't think it's because it's paid vs volunteer people that it happened. I just handed mine over with the waivers but don't recall them closely looking at anything. It is puzzling.

Like was mentioned in the article, have to wonder if the person the bib originally belonged to posted something in social media and "Patty" picked up the info from there. That means she still either social engineered her way to get the bib or someone didn't check her ID. But that's awful gutsy to go the expo and hope the volunteer just doesn't go through the proper procedure right? And since she has apparently done it more than once it makes it even more "interesting." But at least she was in the spirit and dressed up!

She said she printed her waiver out at the expo and wonders if "Patty" saw her on the computer and got her info there as she doesn't go by her legal last name on facebook, so Patty knew her legal last name to sign it that way as she saw it on the sign in sheet that way. So she doesn't think it was from social media but just being picked out at the expo using the computer to print her waiver.

 

[camaker]

She said she printed her waiver out at the expo and wonders if "Patty" saw her on the computer and got her info there as she doesn't go by her legal last name on facebook, so Patty knew her legal last name to sign it that way as she saw it on the sign in sheet that way. So she doesn't think it was from social media but just being picked out at the expo using the computer to print her waiver.

This scenario doesn't sound likely at all. For this to happen, the bib owner would have already printed the bib and headed into packet pickup before the thief, who had just seen the information on the screen could even print the bogus waiver. Then she would have had to beat the original bib owner to the bib pickup desk by a large enough margin that the volunteer wouldn't remember and say "hey, I JUST handed out your bib!" when the original owner got there. The thief had to have had the info in advance and get there early enough that she couldn't be beaten to the pickup by her mark.

 

[Ariel484]

They were in the same Facebook group - my guess is the lady was trolling the group for potential bibs to steal (in fact, the thief was booted out of that group and then attempted to re-join under a different name - probably to continue to look for bibs to steal for future races).

It's like on this message board - we register for the races and excitedly post "I'M IN!" Except most of us don't post our real names or birthdates.

But then if you go into a Facebook group, you just look around for someone with an "I'M IN!" post - click on their profile and if they're using their real name, there it is. Some even have their birthdates there with month, day and year. And that's all you need to get a waiver.

I'm guessing the bib thief found the rightful bib owner in the runDisney Facebook group, got her name and birthdate from her profile, and printed the waiver from home. How she physically GOT the bib is puzzling, like I said above - did the temp just not ask for ID? How would she KNOW she could get away with not having an ID? Maybe she had a few waivers ready to go and just went with the first place where she didn't need to show ID.

I also don't get why she was so dumb as to not put the bib on her back or something during the race...she had to have known she'd show up in pictures.

 

[Ariel484]

Whatever she did...what a sneaky so-and-so.

 

[cavepig]

This scenario doesn't sound likely at all. For this to happen, the bib owner would have already printed the bib and headed into packet pickup before the thief, who had just seen the information on the screen could even print the bogus waiver. Then she would have had to beat the original bib owner to the bib pickup desk by a large enough margin that the volunteer wouldn't remember and say "hey, I JUST handed out your bib!" when the original owner got there. The thief had to have had the info in advance and get there early enough that she couldn't be beaten to the pickup by her mark.

Yeah I agree that it sounds weird, but that's what the person whose bib was stolen thought was how it happened due to her legal name being used which is not how it is on facebook. Who knows, but I like @Ariel484 description, what a sneak!

 

[Ariel484]

Yeah I agree that it sounds weird, but that's what the person whose bib was stolen thought was how it happened due to her legal name being used which is not how it is on facebook. Who knows, but I like @Ariel484 description, what a sneak!

The actual word I want to use is not DIS-friendly.

 

[The Expert]

I had my ID out when I handed over my waiver, but I'm 90% sure they didn't look at my license. I put my waiver and ID on the counter and started flipping through the book to find the signature line. They both looked at the bib number at the bottom, one asked the other to grab the envelope with my pre-ordered pin and necklace, and then grabbed my bib and little stack of stuff (bag sticker, etc). I remember thinking "can I put my ID away now?" and wondering if either had even glanced at it during that process. I checked to make sure I had the right bib and didn't think about it again until all this came up.