OK, here is the park hour comparison June 2001 v June 2000

[All Aboard]

Beginning with Friday June 1, 2001 and comparing to the analogous days of the week last year the results are:

MK closes an hour earlier on the first and second Saturday, then one half hour earlier the first week each night Sunday through Thursday for a total of 4.5 hours less than the previous year.

Epcot hours are the same.

Studios closes 1.5 hours earlier on first Friday, then one half hour earlier each day from Sunday the 4th till the end of the month. That's a total of 15 hours less than last year.

AK hours are the same.

Grand total of 19.5 hours reduction from 1,463.5 hours of operating time. A reduction of just 1.33%.

Infer what you want from those numbers, but hardly a major reduction.

I'll take a look at July if there is any interest.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Beginning with Friday June 1, 2001 and comparing to the analogous days of the week last year the results are:

gcurling, with all due respect, a one year comparison is rather pointless since management has been CONSISTENTLY chipping away the hours for the past 4 years (it may even be five years but 1997 was one of the few years I missed my yearly trek to WDW).

Compare prior to 1997. If you want a real eye opener compare 1979 or 1980 closing times during the summer. The MK stayed opened until 1:00 am. Main Street until 2:00.

 

[All Aboard]

Seemed to be THE point of most of the discussions. "WDW cutting summer hours *way* back this year." Guess I am reading the wrong threads.

Chipping away, perhaps. To me, keeping a theme park (a theme park targeted at families with children) open until 1 am on a consistent basis throughout the summer is an unwise management decision. Pixie dust for whom? Certainly not my family. The park opens at 9am, who can stay in a theme park for 16 hours?

I even think you once mentioned that on those nights, there were relatively few people in the park at that late hour. If that were the case, not fiscally responsible in my opinion.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Seemed to be THE point of most of the discussions. "WDW cutting summer hours *way* back this year." Guess I am reading the wrong threads.

No. I don't think so. I believe we are reading the same threads. However, we are taking away different meanings.
I offer the following quote from JeffJewel's recent post, which to me not only sums up nicely what we're talking about generally, but also points to a broader picture that I feel we should examine.

The list of rides closed or operating reduced hours grows. Parks hours are being cut as we move into the most highly attended time of year. Increasing hotel capacities far outstrip any increase in park capacity. Thirty foot tall icons pop up beside strip motels and shelf-bought rides and are called "theming."

We've had this conversation already, I know. Eisner's response is the same as it's always been: a shrug of the shoulders and a curt "Don't like it? Go somewhere else." This sentiment appears to be echoed by a lot of Eisner defenders on these boards; as long as they personally still enjoy Disney better than Six Flags, all is right with the world.

To me it is totally irrelevant whether or not there is a one point something reduction over whatever percentage last year. It's doublespeak. If that makes you feel comfortable that's fine, but it is not the main issue to many of us who have been talking about this subject. What I feel is very relevant is that management has, yet again, taken away something which was there. I will grant you that not everyone used it, but it was there nonetheless. And to make matters worse they expect us to buy that time back at $12.00 a copy for a much reduced experience.

Chipping away, perhaps.

There is no perhaps about it!!

To me, keeping a theme park (a theme park targeted at families with children) open until 1 am on a consistent basis throughout the summer is an unwise management decision. Pixie dust for whom? Certainly not my family. The park opens at 9am, who can stay in a theme park for 16 hours?

My family for one (even the 7 year old!). And for everyone that buys e-tickets, I guess. With one MAJOR difference. THE WHOLE PLACE STAYED OPENED FOR FREE!!!!! EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK!!! Not just a handful of rides. Not just two days a week. What time do you think e-ticket nights end now? 1:00 am. Seems to me that's endorsement enough.

I even think you once mentioned that on those nights, there were relatively few people in the park at that late hour. If that were the case, not fiscally responsible in my opinion.

The key word here is RELATIVELY. Were you ever in the MK when they close the gates because they had reached capacity? I have. It's not "day in the park" (pun intended!) let me tell you!! So, there was a reduction, some nights more than others, but there were still a lot of people there. Probably more than current e-ticket nights, as the entire MK was opened to absorb the teaming throngs and there was still a ten minute wait for Spce Mountain most times. But your point is not missed. Not fiscally responsible? Hmmm. Kinda what made it PIXIE DUST in the first place, wouldn't you say?

 

[HorizonsFan]

Were those the posted hours from last year or the actual hours from last year? I have seen park hours extended at very short notice during the last week in May and the first week of June.
I guess it depends on how full the resorts/parks are...

 

[All Aboard]

Originally posted by DVC-Landbaron
THE WHOLE PLACE STAYED OPENED FOR FREE!!!!! EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK!!! Not just a handful of rides. Not just two days a week.... Hmmm. Kinda what made it PIXIE DUST in the first place, wouldn't you say?

Here is my position. I truly love WDW, and have for many years. It is our favorite place to be, that's why we spend 40+ days per year there. I want it to be sustained, I want it there and strong for another 30+ years. But, decisions like keeping the parks open until 1 am during economic times that do not command such a decision risks the viability of the company. Back at a time when "giving it away for free" was taking place, the company was being run into the ground.

I am sure everyone out there who is in the position to be making decisions right now is taking a good hard look at expenses right now. We have had the luxury of an extremely vibrant economy the last few years. That's not the case right now. In my industry, companies are being hit very hard. If responsible steps are not taken to control costs, and take a very close look at the way we do business, we'll be in tough shape when we come out of this slump.

WDW can't afford to turn a blind eye to this. It would be a huge mistake. Wall Street is expecting every company to respond right now.

WDW is also not immune to the impacts that its decisions make. If the market (consumer market, that is) responds negatively, then WDW has made a mistake.

WDW continues to be different and continues to do things better than everyone else. I don't see that slipping. I think they are being responsible and reacting to the economy in a way that helps insure future viability. It's a challenge we are all facing right now, one I should be working on instead of continuing to type in this thread.

I understand you passion, to a degree I share it. I'm not happy about attractions closing. But I don't mind tightening the hours somewhat.

Plus, for a guy that travels to WDW as much as I do and MUST stay on-site, the All Stars are super welcomed. And the thirty-foot icons - my daughter certainly enjoys them MUCH more than anything the Grand Floridian offers up in terms of visuals.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

WOW!! So much ground to cover I hardly know where to start!! I guess the first place is to agree on something. And I agree that we both LOVE the place. We both want it to be sustained. We both don't like the rides closing. And finally, we both NEED to stay on the grounds. Hmmm. Not bad agreeing going on here.

But (with me there's always a but… lol) BUT, we do disagree on some very important points.

Back at a time when "giving it away for free" was taking place, the company was being run into the ground.

Not at all!! It was ripe for take-over, NOT being run into the ground. That's quite a difference. And it was especially true of the parks!! They were turning quite a tidy profit at the time. (I have a history of the time, specifically Ron Miller, which I will post if you like, but be careful what you ask for. It is quite lengthy.)

We have had the luxury of an extremely vibrant economy the last few years.

Then why have prices steadily risen, while services (in this case hours of operation) steadily declined? I could understand it if this were the first year this type on nonsense was being implemented. Fine, I'll buy it. Expected doom from rising gas prices and slow economy. Let's cut hours this year. OK. I don't like it, but I understand it.

But that isn't what happened, is it? They gave me that same line in 1998 when they first cut the hours to 11:00 pm that summer instead of midnight. They said that there were fires in Florida that they were afraid would keep the tourists away. So they responded in a fiscally responsible manner. They cut hours. But then they felt "guilty" (lol) about taking away all that magic so you know what those heirs of Walt did? They invented E_Ticket Nights! That's right, they were willing to sell you some pixie dust back for ten bucks a copy. Boy did that make me feel special (sarcasm intended). And what happened the next year, when there were no fires? Why they reinstated the midnight closings of course. HAH! Wake up!! Sorry I must have nodded off and started to dream…

… They did nothing, of course. 11:00 became the standard. Know what they told me when I asked about the MK closings in 2000? They looked at me dumbfounded. "Why we always close a t 11:00 sir." I begged to differ, of course, and pointed out that three or four years ago they closed at midnight. Their response? "Well, I wouldn't know about the whole history of WDW, sir. As far as I know these are the standard hours."

Wall Street is expecting every company to respond right now.

I know it was probably a mistake, but you should really be more careful. For a hot second there you slipped into Ei$ner thinking. (lol)

Plus, for a guy that travels to WDW as much as I do and MUST stay on-site, the All Stars are super welcomed. And the thirty-foot icons - my daughter certainly enjoys them MUCH more than anything the Grand Floridian offers up in terms of visuals.

OK. I promise not to spend too much time on this as we've gone over it time and again. First a question. Could you afford, even on a stretch, one of the moderates? If your answer is no, then skip to the end and I'm sorry for wasting your time. If, however, your answer yes, then I would like you to imagine a different kind of experience. A true "DINSEY" experience. A different kind of world. A place where it doesn't matter what a Holiday Inn does for it's customers or what perks the upscale New York Hotels gives their customers. You are not a customer, you are a guest. A "DISNEY" guest. In other words, you are SPECIAL!! It doesn't matter what your point of reference is. You are fully immersed in a "DISNEY" experience. A "DISNEY" resort. Complete with "DISNEY" standards which didn't vary from place to place or resort to resort. They were all as elegant as the Floridian, all as themed as the Poly. So that other than theme, they would be interchangeable, with amenities, room size, transportation, pools and COST. What'd think? Like that idea? That's the way it was before Ei$ner implemented his caste system throughout the (WD)World! The All-Stars is just the bottom of that system. But there is very little of the old DISNEY standard left to them. I agree with JeffJewel. A large Icon does not a Disney Resort make. I find that SO SAD!!!!!!

 

[YoHo]

DVC-Landbaron, Not that I wouldn't enjoy an extended history of the 70's era Disney company, but We've looked at the Disney World numbers from the time in a number of different ways and all we've been able to conclude is that the Disney resorts did not at the time fulfill there function of supporting the rest of the company. In this case, ripe for takeover equals investor dissatisfaction equals into the toilet. Adjustments needed to be made.

We've also gone over the fact, that the way Disney should be run, if something is being done that hurts the company more then it helps the company, then it should be stopped.

Why am I bringing this up? not because I feel that all the hour cutting is appropriate, but because the knee-jerk reaction to the hour cutting is wrong. Everything I've read and seen seems to indicate to me, that the summer month's may not be what they used to be in terms of park attendence as compared to Easter weekend, Thanksgiving, Christmas. It may be, that the relative magic is not being lost. Remember, the reason being open so late was magical, was because the crowds were so heavy. Well, now with 4 parks, a late night entertainment complex and ton's of resurants and resort activities, it may be that no magic is lost any more.

Of course that's all subjective. It is possible that the bean counters don't look at it that way and just look at it from a money perspective, but the fact remains, that each year, the changes in the property affect the entire magic equation and leaving the park open later simply, because they always have is not E$SNER smart or Walt Smart.

Then again, I could be 100% wrong, but hey, I'm a silver lining kind of guy

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

We've looked at the Disney World numbers from the time in a number of different ways and all we've been able to conclude is that the Disney resorts did not at the time fulfill there function of supporting the rest of the company.

I completely disagree!!! I do agree, we've gone over this ground, but your conclusions and mine don't match at all! And I really thought that we had reached some common ground. I thought it was pretty much agreed that the film divisions were losing their shirts (as some other divisions) but the theme parks (resorts included) were still a gold mine, in spite of EPCOT's rather slow start. Can we really still be that far apart? (take this as a veiled threat of posting the aforementioned history. (lol)).

We've also gone over the fact, that the way Disney should be run, if something is being done that hurts the company more then it helps the company, then it should be stopped.

I couldn't agree more. I contend that guest dissatisfaction should be stopped, immediately!!! (if not sooner! lol) And it's much more far reaching that shorter hours. If that were the only down side that Ei$ner had proposed I would gladly keep my mouth shut. But it's just another straw he has put on our backs. And my back broke long ago (1998). And while yours may not be broken yet, I'll bet the load is getting heavy!! Mention what you will, and everyone has a different take, but I'd venture to say that virtually everyone here can give an example of an Ei$nerism that has recently hit them square in the head. Carnival games, DCA, AK (the half park), Horizons, Imagination, Timekeeper, Figment, the EPCOT graveyard, that horrible sign above that wonderful geo-sphere, rising prices for food, rising prices for accommodations, rising prices for merchandise, the Disney Store, GO.COM, ABC, that hat in MGM, spinning rides, 20K, proliferation of character meals to the exclusion of random meetings throughout the parks, the Ei$ner caste system, Paul Pressler, maintenance issues, horrid transportation, Magic on Demand… (Do you need more?)

Some of these things we may argue about. Some you may even consider good moves. That's not the point. For many, ALL the things one the list (perhaps not collectively but individually, even to you), represent poor management and a complete departure from Walt's philosophy.

Why am I bringing this up? not because I feel that all the hour cutting is appropriate, but because the knee-jerk reaction to the hour cutting is wrong.

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I was doing anything less than a well thought out argument. I didn't mean to give you the sense that it was "knee-jerk". Far from it. I've thought very long about this very subject for nearly four years now. Nothing could be further from "knee-jerk", for me at least.

It is possible that the bean counters don't look at it that way and just look at it from a money perspective,

There's no "possible" about it. It's a sure thing!!!! Walt used to refer to them a "sharp-pencil-guys". I like that term. It's perfect for them. He hated them, and so do I.

Then again, I could be 100% wrong, but hey, I'm a silver lining kind of guy

That's why I like you so much!!!

 

[All Aboard]

Originally posted by DVC-Landbaron

I contend that guest dissatisfaction should be stopped, immediately

LandBaron, I think you are transferring your own disastisfaction on the general population. While you have many folks who side with your opinion here, I suspect that the vast majority, the huge bulk of the WDW-going population isn't disastified with Walt Disney World.

Originally posted by DVC-Landbaron

There's no "possible" about it. It's a sure thing!!!! Walt used to refer to them a "sharp-pencil-guys". I like that term. It's perfect for them. He hated them, and so do I.

Ouch! I felt that one.

 

[JeffJewell]

...two points I wanted to make.

Personally, I wasn't comparing this year's June hours to last year's, I was comparing the hours Disney officially announced for this June to the hours that they later went back and changed them to. To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't have noticed that the hours were different from last year (historically, I avoid the summer months at WDW. This is a special trip). I only noticed because I planned and paid for my vacation based on what Disney told us their hours would be, but Disney does not feel they need to live by their word.

This does appear to be a very last minute, no-concern-for-the-guest decision: my Mickey Monitor arrived today and shows the longer hours for Disney Studios and Animal Kingdom, and the second nightly showing of Fantasmic!

Secondly, the attendance numbers of Animal Kingdom and Disney's California Adventure, the two parks sporting the highest concentration of Eisner fingerprints, suggest that Landbaron's dissatisfaction might be less isolated than you imply.

Jeff

 

[Peter Pirate]

JJ why are DCA & AK two parks with more "Eisner fingerprints" than say MGM or basically WDW as a whole? Heck, he's been in charge for 17 years and the place is still causing Magic...Even for LandBaron who admitted it very recently in his "State of the Parks address" and JJ, you're still an AP holder...Why? The Magic must still be there and I think giving the credit to a guy who's been dead and frozen for so long is niave. Eisner is and has been the "keeper of the cheese" and while you can always find chinks in the armour you have to admit that on the whole WDW is more of a going concern today than ever before.

Obviously, one man's magic is another man's distress, but it is terminal to think that Eisner's accomplishments have to be constantly diminished by folks looking at the small picture...

As for AK, the highly acclaimed AKL ought to signal the start of BK (wait & see) and the announcement of the third gate at DL means only that Disney is not overly worried about DCA's showing thus far and "fixes" are certainly on the horizon, for as bad as you think Eisner is you surely don't think he'd put good money after bad without a typical Disney happy ending in sight, do you?

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

How many times have I got to....

Wait a minute!!!

Could it be.....

Is it possible....

Can it really be....

PETER PIRATE!!!!

Thank God!!! Did the Captain (who is now an Ei$ner basher) find you?

Not that it matters, I welcome you!!! With open arms!!!

I can finally get rid of that stupid Long live the Pirate bit!!!

HURRAY!!!

 

[JeffJewell]

...welcome back, haven't seen your name in a while.

why are DCA & AK two parks with more "Eisner fingerprints" than say MGM or basically WDW as a whole

My knowledge of the Disney years 1986-1996 is not as first hand as my knowledge of the years before and after that. It's my understanding that the Imagineering for Disney Studios was well underway pre-Eisner, and the general consensus is that the Wells/Eisner team made slightly less odious financial choices than Eisner has tended to make on his own. I am educable on those points if I've been misinformed. My personal addition to this batch of information is that I feel Tower of Terror was the last time Disney made a serious effort in Imagineering and building a ride. Lowballing Imagineering budgets and buying off-the-shelf rides or re-using ride systems in the absence of other innovation are the "fingerprints" I'm referring to.

JJ, you're still an AP holder...Why?

More tellingly, I'm staying off-site during my June trip, and the trip will include non-WDW attractions, for the first time since I've been paying for it myself.

Just because I still find WDW more entertaining than, say, Six Flags, doesn't mean that I'm required to ignore obvious and disturbing trends.

Obviously, one man's magic is another man's distress, but it is terminal to think that Eisner's accomplishments have to be constantly diminished by folks looking at the small picture...

You'll have to be more specific about what you define as Eisner's "accomplishments." He has instilled a corporate attitude that cheaper is better, and has lowered the Imagineering standards of new rides. And he has made barrels of bonus money while he cuts corners, guest perqs, park hours, and jobs.

How you can suggest _I'm_ looking at the small picture baffles me.

announcement of the third gate at DL means only that Disney is not overly worried about DCA's showing thus far and "fixes" are certainly on the horizon, for as bad as you think Eisner is you surely don't think he'd put good money after bad without a typical Disney happy ending in sight, do you?

Last I heard, the "third gate" was likely to become a parking lot. Beyond that, yes, I definitely think Eisner would throw money at a doomed project, in spite of advice to the contrary, just because he wanted to. From the stories I've heard, that is precisely what happened with DCA in the first place. I also believe that Eisner does not understand the concept of the "typical Disney happy ending." I don't think he could possibly have mortgaged Disney's future the way he has if he did.

The Dino-Rama "fix" for Animal Kingdom appears to be cheaply themed shelf-bought rides; in other words, more of the same low-ball thinking that caused the original problem. It leaves me no warm feeling to think that the same man might "fix" DCA.

Jeff

 

[Peter Pirate]

The server change restored my password and the Captain's come down with the scurvy! Thanks for the homage LandBaron...Don't remove it on my account...I'm a legend in my own mind!

Jeff, the general consensus is that Eisner - Wells made less odious financial decisions but that is just more speculation (IMO). Certainly Wells & Eisner were best friends and respected each other, but Eisner was in charge, he's always been in charge and Wells deferred to Eisner's final decisions. Now, perhaps because of their close personal relationship Eisner listened to Wells more than those who came later, I just don't know.

But the key here is the internet (IMO), the DIS, Screamscape, Laughingplace, et al. Disney is now under a microscope that didn't exist just a couple years ago, true they have always been under the press's microscope but they don't dwell on the minutia as we fanatics do. We argue real rumors, false rumors, speculation and it all gets jumbled. We must remember that Disney seldom shares their ideas with us and our passions regarding favorites, failures, hopes, dreams & attitudes are laced with those passions. Eisner isn't making decisions based on whats in his heart (much to LandBarons shagrin) but rather whats in is head as any competent CEO would.

I understand where you're coming from with the "fingerprint" commnet now, but what about Test Track? And SPACE? How about Kilimangaro Safari? Or Soarin' Over California? These are all recent attractions doing things that heretofore haven't been done before. Further Disney has definately leaned toward Show innovation lately and is that a bad thing? Beauty & The Beast, Hunchback, Lion King, Tarzan, Fantasmic...They add a NEW demension that before Eisner, wasn't a part of the MAGIC. I agree that the Shows are a different venue altogether, but to infer that innovation & imagination have decreased just doesn't seem right to me.

The reason I say you & DVC are looking at the small picture is because you're looking at one phase of a huge company and examining it under a microscope. Yes, Theme Parks have been the most profitable venue, but in today's world , like it or not, we all have to accept the size and breadth that Disney must maintain in order to reamin independent. We often criticize Eisner for micro-managing but I think he receives criticizim from detractors who only care about a portion of what he's responsible for, making a fair look at what he's trying to accomplish nearly impossible...

Sarangels report on the DisBiz suggests the permitting process for DL is, in fact, the start of gate three, so that's where I'm coming from on that...

As for Dino-Rama, appearances can be deceiving. Our friend Safari Steve repeatedly cautions us to wait & see, judge with our own eyes and I'm willing to do that with DinoLand. Perhaps you and DVC will be right and it'll be just a cheap, quick fix...But I see the glass as half-full. The rollercoasters will have big lines and the Carney games will harken us back to a time in Americana forgotton...Disney style. Remember, Walt never said he didn't like the carnival atmosphere, quite the contrary IMO, he didn't like the sleazy & dirtiness he found in what was being offered at the time. Rest asured Disney won't resemble those traits.

OK, I've given you guys enough fodder, I think and you should keep in mind that while I don't disagree with your views on appearances in a lot of cases, the hard-line anti-Eisner stance sometimes taken makes it tough for us to find a common ground. I like WDW BETTER than ever before and so do gcurling, DisDuck and others. Perhaps it's because it's our time, gcurling, JeffH & I all have young children, but for whatever reason it still 'takes me away' every single time, to a place like nowhere else!

 

[HorizonsFan]

. I like WDW BETTER than ever before and so do gcurling, DisDuck and others. Perhaps it's because it's our time, gcurling, JeffH & I all have young children, but for whatever reason it still 'takes me away' every single time, to a place like nowhere else!

I'm with you Cap.. uh, Peter.
And I don't even have kids...

 

[YoHo]

I definatly like Walt Disney World Better then ever before. My feeling on Eisner-Wells is that Wells was Eisner's Roy. Nobody here believes me, or they ignore the facts, but previous to Frank Wells death, Micheal Eisner had never held the purse strings in any appreciable fashion in any previous job. Sure, he greenlighted movies and decided what movies would get what budgets, but that's a far cry from managing corporate finances. Micheal Eisner fails, because he isn't Frank Well, Isn't Roy Disney. He has the ability to see Magic. Read the Jim Hill article on Alein encounter for an example. Eisner recognized the potential of the initial idea, but when it came time to fund things, he became lost and the ride (supposedly, hard to tell when you only have the end product) suffered.

Similarly, look at the proposed Fire Mountain, Villian mountain, these rides are imagineering genious and Micheal greenlighted continued work on them only to let it sit in funding hell.


In short, I am of the distinct opinion that Eisner's failures have little to do with Magic and everything to do with finance, and NOBODY has been able to disuade me from this.

I have in the past an will now state that it is as bad as what would have happened had Roy died instead of Walt. Walt would have either driven the company into the ground while ignoring finance and fighting with ROy's replacment, or he would have tarnished his own goals in order to fulfill Roy's job, which he was vastly unqualified for.




I still stand by the idea that your not losing magic with fewer park hours, you have many more MAgic options now.

As for JeffJ, I sympithize and it does suck, but on the other hand, they specifically state that hours are subject to change without notice, They must have that line there for a reason, meaning they've probably had, or chosen to change hours in the past. The only time when you'll know the true official hours is when you check the park map for that week. and even that is subject to weather and other things.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

but for whatever reason it still 'takes me away' every single time, to a place like nowhere else!

Can we form another car pool? And I'd like to drive. Also, I'm not sure, but I suspect that JeffJewel, HBK and Another Voice would come along for the ride. Because if the above quote was all there was to these debates, we'd all be on the same page. We'll all meet under the Castle and do a grand tour of our favorite place in the world. We'll share "crowd avoidance" tips and ride our favorite attractions. We'll pester CMs for the latest rumors and find some lunch, say at the Poly.

But somewhere along the way someone will point out the closing of Timekeeper or how rotten the maintenance is in CoP or just how many cheap trinkets stands there are or how soon we have to leave the MK because they cut the hours once again or how stagnant World Showcase is or how really cheap and demeaning the EPCOT graveyard is or how they used to build PAVILIONS in Future world, but today they build RIDES or how great monorails would be instead of Magic on Demand or how really expensive everything is or the proliferation of gift shops or…

Anyway, the talk amongst our car pool will turn to what there is to enjoy and what distractions to the magic we see. And I would argue (quite successfully I might add) that all the things we see, all the magic we experience, all the smiles on our faces is a direct result of what Walt did. The foundation and philosophy he invented. And ALL the distractions (admittedly, some very minor) are all a direct result of Ei$ner's management philosophies and corporate, bottom line (sharp pencil guy) thinking. And then I would ask you, face to face, in front of the rest of the car pool, just what Ei$ner has ever done to further (not just maintain, he's very good at that) but further Walt's ideals?

After the very long silence….. We'd go to Rose & Crown and I'd buy you an ale.

So, it is in perspective that we have to examine the rest of your statement (actually the first part of it).

I like WDW BETTER than ever before and so do gcurling, DisDuck and others. Perhaps it's because it's our time, gcurling, JeffH & I all have young children,

Well, first off I can show you some sites where I am considered a consevative moderate as far as Ei$ner is concerned. Because you can point to four or five or twenty people who agree with you really does not mean much. And I have little kids too. Many of them. We all agree. We LOVE Disney.

It is the word "better" that has me a little hesitant. In many ways I agree. Ei$ner has carried over Walt's special brand of magic into several wonderful places. AK, while not quite there yet, is absolutely beautiful. The water parks are beyond compare!!! There are even some bright spots in the studios, though by and large it is an Ei$ner abomination (Oh the hate mail I'll get for that one!!).

So yes. In many, many ways I do agree I like WDW better today. Yet, in many, many other ways (and the scales are tipped ever so slightly in this direction) I really hate what I see and fear greatly for the future.

Care to car pool sometime with me and discover the pros and cons?

 

[YoHo]

MAybe to misuse some Walt quotes, I think Eisner is a fountain pen being shoved in an electric pencil sharpener. he is absolutly, positivly not a Sharp Pencil guy, but he is forcing himself to try and be one, and failing. (of course, if Mike's a Fountain pen, then Walts a feather quill and Ink bottle, but now I'm just beating things into the ground. )

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

YoHo!!

You posted while I was composing. And you have finally made your point with me. HOLY COW, I FINALLY UNDERSTAND!! And much more than that I can help support your argument!! How do you like that??!!

Ok, you suppose that Frank was the money man and Ei$ner was the creative guy. On the surface this supposition is ludicrous!! Everyone knows that Ei$ner is so tight he still has his confirmation money!! How could that possibly be!? Isn't he responsible for under funding EVERY SINGLE PROJECT he's ever been associated with?

Ahhhh, not quite all. Let's look at Euro-Disney! An Ei$ner idea. An Ei$ner park. And the very last park (and resort) to open the way a Disney park should open. A full park. Not a half park. Think maybe Ei$ner is a little gun shy?

So you convinced me. I see it. I totally understand. But, so what? I mean it doesn't change the fact that he still can't do the job he's got. At least not alone. And his massive ego won't allow for a partner. So he fails!!! Anyway you slice it, he's gotta go!

And I also think you're right about the Roy and Walt thing. If Roy had died first (and it would have to be much earlier) Walt would have run the company into the ground. I absolutely believe that. And his ego probably wouldn't have allowed for a partner that wasn't blood either. (Boy, I'm going to hate having this come back to haunt me!)