Philando Castile shooting - full dashcam video released

[Gumbo4x4]

Devastating.

I tried to turn the channel but unfortunately saw it. Even though you know so much from the coverage last year, it's sickening to watch it and hear it unfold.

I can't even imagine what this is like for his family. Here they are mourning their loved one and this is the verdict on their son - brother -boyfriend shot seven times as he followed instructions. Not to mention all the students who loved this man.

I guess citizens need to fight a law that results in this kind of outcome. Sighing.



Thank you for posting this. We have not progressed. But let's make America great again.

I have been in cars pulled over with whites and with blacks. And I can tell you there is a huge difference.

I have been in multiple situations sitting beside a black driver that I have never experienced with a white driver. One was for a legal U-turn. Pulled over with sirens. Cops on both sides of the car. Asked why. We just thought you looked like you were up to no good. Seriously, that was the answer.

Another time was waiting on a street, legally, staying warm in the car to go out to a picket line. Harassed. No other word for it. After calmly explaining why we were sitting there.

The third time was for coming very close to passing a streetcar, illegal here to pass at certain points. But did not pass it, simply close. Two officers, both sides of the car. I lost my cool and told the police officer on my side that he scared the crap out of me - just appearing like that on such a pull over- your instinct is to listen to the officer at hand.And be turned in that direction. I let my body language show how disturbing it all felt.

When in a car with a white driver I have never had officers on both sides of the car. Not once.

__________________________________________________

I too would hate to be a cop these days. But that police officer was not a good candidate for the force to begin with or at the least not kept on over time. It is obvious that he acted in complete fear. And I'm sure this was not the first time where he acted like he had no proper training.

I can't imagine what it is like to be the parents of black children. What the hell do you tell them? Follow instructions? Doesn't work.

And for all those judging Castile's actions - unless you're black your actions are not relevant to discuss his actions. Because you don't have the fear/apprehension/history of aggressive police pull overs to blanket your level of free, calm, clear thinking in these situations. But then again Castile was amazingly clear and calm. Sigh.

And isn't this what the NRA fights for? Gun rights for carrying lawfully? Where are they? Have I missed their support of the Castile family? Their statement on how this was handled?

____________________________________________

If anyone is interested in knowing what profiling is really like ---

http://torontolife.com/city/life/skin-im-ive-interrogated-police-50-times-im-black/

There's an editorial rant that aired on NRA-TV. No official response from the NRA top brass.

Historically, it's unusual for the NRA to respond to the misdeeds of an individual rank & file police officer regardless of the situation. Police officers are more likely to be NRA members than any other profession and ALL police officers receive training from the NRA, so it's a sticky situation.

If there is to be any official response at all, it is likely to be targeting of the legislation that protected Yanez. But, I would say it's unlikely as again, that will be seen as anti-police.

 

[agame2323]

Did you read the last paragraph of agame's post. An either or option is basically saying I'm a racist.

LOL!!! What you ARE would be described as a Grammar troll! (...and a damn good one)

The word COULD does not constitute an either or option. The word "could" in the context of that sentence indicates possibilities. He COULD be... Not, he's Either...

Boy... you have everyone taking the bait. Good one. LOL

 

[moon]

I was a teen when the OJ trial transpired in the 90s. How does it relate to the dashcam video?

Because you said that the evidence was looked out by the jurors and he was found not guilty. So it seems like a not guilty verdict is enough for you

I find it funny how you are avoiding answering the question about OJ. Everyone has an opinion about that case. It doesn't matter that you were a teen then. You are a grown man now. You said you have not followed the Castille case closely, yet the fact that the jury found him not guilty is enough for you. Same with the OJ case. He was found not guilty.

So I ask again...Do you feel the same way about the OJ verdict?

 

[moon]

Ok, then. I suppose all I can say that if I were in this position, I believe I could think clearly enough in 4 seconds to put my hands on the steering wheel. But, that's me.

Says she who has never been through it...

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Because you said that the evidence was looked out by the jurors and he was found not guilty. So it seems like a not guilty verdict is enough for you

I find it funny how you are avoiding answering the question about OJ. Everyone has an opinion about that case. It doesn't matter that you were a teen then. You are a grown man now. You said you have not followed the Castille case closely, yet the fact that the jury found him not guilty is enough for you. Same with the OJ case. He was found not guilty.

So I ask again...Do you feel the same way about the OJ verdict?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but it's a poor comparison IMO. There is no question as to who killed Castille. That was the entire question with OJ.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I wish I could "like" this more than once!

I went to a school with very wealthy, privileged young ladies. I was there on scholarship, but everyone else had parents who could actually pay the tuition. I remember having lunch with some of my friends in high school, when one of the girls (Caribbean heritage, dark brown skin), asked us, "So how many times have YOU been pulled over by the cops?"

Everyone (except me, who didn't have my license yet) looked at her blankly and said, "Never?"

Her face fell and she said, "But, I've been pulled over five times in the last four months! I thought it was just something that happened to everyone."

One of my friends asked if the cops were ever rude to her. She said, "No, they're always very polite. They just ask to see my license, apologize for bothering me, and tell me to have a nice day."

We worked it out. She's young. She's black. She's driving a nice car. The cops see her and assume she's stolen it, until she opens her mouth and they realize she sounds like a nicely educated, upper class young lady.

I can't imagine what it would be like going through life with everyone suspecting I'm up to no good, just because of the colour of my skin.

Years later, I was coincidentally in a parenting group with a black university professor who'd married a white man, and a white gov't worker who'd married a black man. I remember listening to them compare notes on what it was like to raise biracial children. The university prof was constantly being mistaken for a nanny, because her children were fairer than her. Even when she was walking to her office on campus! And the gov't employee was either assumed to be an unwed teen mom with a black baby, or else - if she was in her professional clothes - her child's adoptive mother. Both found this incredibly frustrating and demeaning, to both them and their kids.

I don't know why we haven't moved on from this nonsense yet.

I think it's hard for people to really have a discussion about things like that because, it's hard to really look and understand that there are racist thoughts or stereotypes which do come into play more often than we all want to admit. When terms like racism, racist, bigotry are used they conjure specific images in the mind of many. An example would be you think of segregation or not liking someone because they are a certain race. You have that image and it's offensive because that's not who you are or how you feel. You don't use racist terms, you don't say hateful things about someone based on race.
While that type of racism is still a problem, there's also a different type of racism and often it gets lost because people are so defensive about the label and associating it with the old school definitions of racism.
There was that viral video of that guy being interviewed at home and his two kids burst into the room (sorry I can't remember the details but they were little kids and one was in a walker). The mom came in and collected them. The guy was white. The woman who came in was asian. There was lots of discussion because before it was known who she was, many assumed she a nanny. She was the wife and mother of the children. Now it might seem like a small thing, people assuming she was a nanny. A lot of people were annoyed when the discussion turned to why it was assumed she was a nanny. It becomes this whole thing.."omg who cares, why does everything have to be labeled racist"...That's really all a way to deflect from the question though because answering or even discussing the question is uncomfortable. It's not because people hate, dislike, whatever people of different races, it's because we all have preconceived ideas about people (especially strangers) based on their race, religion, what we see. That's the thing that difficult to come to terms with and difficult to admit. It can't change until people admit it's a problem though.
I know this is a long, rambling wall of text. Sorry about that. I just hope it's at least somewhat coherent.

 

[cabanafrau]

I think it's hard for people to really have a discussion about things like that because, it's hard to really look and understand that there are racist thoughts or stereotypes which do come into play more often than we all want to admit. When terms like racism, racist, bigotry are used they conjure specific images in the mind of many. An example would be you think of segregation or not liking someone because they are a certain race. You have that image and it's offensive because that's not who you are or how you feel. You don't use racist terms, you don't say hateful things about someone based on race.
While that type of racism is still a problem, there's also a different type of racism and often it gets lost because people are so defensive about the label and associating it with the old school definitions of racism.
There was that viral video of that guy being interviewed at home and his two kids burst into the room (sorry I can't remember the details but they were little kids and one was in a walker). The mom came in and collected them. The guy was white. The woman who came in was asian. There was lots of discussion because before it was known who she was, many assumed she a nanny. She was the wife and mother of the children. Now it might seem like a small thing, people assuming she was a nanny. A lot of people were annoyed when the discussion turned to why it was assumed she was a nanny. It becomes this whole thing.."omg who cares, why does everything have to be labeled racist"...That's really all a way to deflect from the question though because answering or even discussing the question is uncomfortable. It's not because people hate, dislike, whatever people of different races, it's because we all have preconceived ideas about people (especially strangers) based on their race, religion, what we see. That's the thing that difficult to come to terms with and difficult to admit. It can't change until people Amit it's a problem tough.
I know this is a long, rambling wall of text. Sorry about that. I just hope it's at least somewhat coherent.

I happen to think the officer in this case was out of line in the use of deadly force. That said, I don't think it helps anyone to jump to the idea "police" are the problem, "police" are racist, etc. We legitimately need good police in a civilized society where we look to live by rule of law. It should be equally as important to the police as it is to the citizenry that all police officers are abiding by the laws and genuinely looking to protect and serve the wellbeing of all of us.

One police officer is not every police officer. Bad actions by one are not an indictment of all. That same idea should be applied to those who engage in criminal behavior. People who want to live peacefully under rule of law should want to see those who break the law disciplined and punished, hopefully so that they either learn not to do it again or are permanently detained so they cannot do it again. Their race, the color of their skin, their religious practice, their gender, none of that should matter. Break the law, face the appropriate punishment.

I believe if we genuinely can work to live by and apply the laws equally to all we have the best justice system in the world. Once we start thinking it's okay if so and so breaks this or that rule or we look the other way because so and so is really a good guy, one of "us", whoever we happen to identify ourselves in that instant, that's when we risk losing the peace and freedoms we all should enjoy.

 

[moon]

I know this wasn't directed at me, but it's a poor comparison IMO. There is no question as to who killed Castille. That was the entire question with OJ.

That's not the point. This is about the verdict. 3 men and a boat says that if the jury decided not guilty in the Castille's case that's good enough for him.

So my question is again, if he thinks the not guilty verdict for the Castille's case is good enough for him, is the not guilty verdict also good enough for him?

I don't know, I think it's a very simple and straightforward question. I don't get the confusion.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I happen to think the officer in this case was out of line in the use of deadly force. That said, I don't think it helps anyone to jump to the idea "police" are the problem, "police" are racist, etc. We legitimately need good police in a civilized society where we look to live by rule of law. It should be equally as important to the police as it is to the citizenry that all police officers are abiding by the laws and genuinely looking to protect and serve the wellbeing of all of us.

One police officer is not every police officer. Bad actions by one are not an indictment of all. That same idea should be applied to those who engage in criminal behavior. People who want to live peacefully under rule of law should want to see those who break the law disciplined and punished, hopefully so that they either learn not to do it again or are permanently detained so they cannot do it again. Their race, the color of their skin, their religious practice, their gender, none of that should matter. Break the law, face the appropriate punishment.

I believe if we genuinely can work to live by and apply the laws equally to all we have the best justice system in the world. Once we start thinking it's okay if so and so breaks this or that rule or we look the other way because so and so is really a good guy, one of "us", whoever we happen to identify ourselves in that instant, that's when we risk losing the peace and freedoms we all should enjoy.

I wasn't trying to say police are the problem or anything like that. I do agree with what you are saying. My comments were more about society in general. My personal opinion is our goal should be what you describe. I do believe that we are not at that point and it's hard to talk about why because we (society) have come far and certain words and all they bring with them are loaded and come with images that go against how we think and how we see ourselves.
In this case, there's a reason why Mr. Castile having a gun freaked out the officer so much. It could have been the same if Mr. Castile had been a white guy. Being honest about it though, and obviously this is just my opinion so it doesn't really mean anything more than that, Mr. Castile being a black man did play a role in how the officer reacted. He even said in his interview after that he didn't know if the gun was "for protection from drug dealers or people trying to rob him". Honestly, I do believe race played a part in that comment.

 

[sunshinehighway]

That's not the point. This is about the verdict. 3 men and a boat says that if the jury decided not guilty in the Castille's case that's good enough for him.

So my question is again, if he thinks the not guilty verdict for the Castille's case is good enough for him, is the not guilty verdict also good enough for him?

I don't know, I think it's a very simple and straightforward question. I don't get the confusion.

It is straightforward. Casey Anthony was aquitted but I doubt people are banging down her door to babysit.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

Because you said that the evidence was looked out by the jurors and he was found not guilty. So it seems like a not guilty verdict is enough for you

I find it funny how you are avoiding answering the question about OJ. Everyone has an opinion about that case. It doesn't matter that you were a teen then. You are a grown man now. You said you have not followed the Castille case closely, yet the fact that the jury found him not guilty is enough for you. Same with the OJ case. He was found not guilty.

So I ask again...Do you feel the same way about the OJ verdict?

Im sure juries get it wrong sometimes. Do you think they were wrong this time?
I'm not avoiding the question, I'm just choosing not to answer because as soon as I do, you or another poster will bring up yet another case with completely different circumstances.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Im sure juries get it wrong sometimes. Do you think they were wrong this time?
I'm not avoiding the question, I'm just choosing not to answer because as soon as I do, you or another poster will bring up yet another case with completely different circumstances.

That's not fair. You used the verdict to defend the officer. You can't do that and then act shocked that someone would ask if you agree with other controversial verdicts.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

That's not fair. You used the verdict to defend the officer. You can't do that and then act shocked that someone would ask if you agree with other controversial verdicts.

I can, simply because unlike some I don't live and breath every trial that's ever transpired.

 

[lisaviolet]

I think it's hard for people to really have a discussion about things like that because, it's hard to really look and understand that there are racist thoughts or stereotypes which do come into play more often than we all want to admit. When terms like racism, racist, bigotry are used they conjure specific images in the mind of many. An example would be you think of segregation or not liking someone because they are a certain race. You have that image and it's offensive because that's not who you are or how you feel. You don't use racist terms, you don't say hateful things about someone based on race.
While that type of racism is still a problem, there's also a different type of racism and often it gets lost because people are so defensive about the label and associating it with the old school definitions of racism.
There was that viral video of that guy being interviewed at home and his two kids burst into the room (sorry I can't remember the details but they were little kids and one was in a walker). The mom came in and collected them. The guy was white. The woman who came in was asian. There was lots of discussion because before it was known who she was, many assumed she a nanny. She was the wife and mother of the children. Now it might seem like a small thing, people assuming she was a nanny. A lot of people were annoyed when the discussion turned to why it was assumed she was a nanny. It becomes this whole thing.."omg who cares, why does everything have to be labeled racist"...That's really all a way to deflect from the question though because answering or even discussing the question is uncomfortable. It's not because people hate, dislike, whatever people of different races, it's because we all have preconceived ideas about people (especially strangers) based on their race, religion, what we see. That's the thing that difficult to come to terms with and difficult to admit. It can't change until people Amit it's a problem tough.
I know this is a long, rambling wall of text. Sorry about that. I just hope it's at least somewhat coherent.

Your post is exactly the reason why I smirked through "I guess I'm a racist" - "I didn't say you're a racist" - "An either/or is basically saying I'm a racist" -"Where did I say you were a racist?".

Paraphrasing it all, but you get the gist.

I know, am fully secure, that I am relatively evolved surrounding racial issues. Part of it is because I was born with certain abilities and sensitivities. The most important one being that I can easily put myself - the best I can - in other peoples' shoes. But that ability never leads me to think that I have a full understanding of others' experiences as they walk through life. How could I?

Part of it is because I grew up from day one in a multicultural environment, it all just was. Part of it was because I have always been surrounded by a lot of loved ones who are black. Part of it is because I have effed up with thoughts and have been called on it. Part of it is because I try to listen as much as I speak. Fail a lot there, but try.

But despite all this there is not a week that goes by - and a week is being generous - that I don't have racially ignorant thoughts. Some I am horrified to have. Some I justify somehow. But I have them. And acknowledge I have them.

Yet there are so many Americans - and Canadians - that are way more blessed than I. They aren't even remotely racist or racially ignorant. Not one thought. At times that is totally entertaining. During these times, saddening and frustrating.

So yes sunshinehighway, I got your post.

I have a ton of private, with people that I trust, interesting and open discussions with these difficult topics. And they are interesting. Sometimes I am defending certain tactics of BLM to black people. I should be doing more than talking, but often I am perplexed about where to even start. I have hope that I will become more active. I'm sure watching another episode of A Handmaid's Tale will be a good push.

_________________________________________

Posting this link yet again. If you really want to understand that we all don't walk around in the same world, walking down the same streets, this truly is an excellent article. Not to mention beautifully written. Challenge yourself for crying out loud. It won't hurt.

http://torontolife.com/city/life/skin-im-ive-interrogated-police-50-times-im-black/

 

[MamaBelle4]

So, I guess his hand was in view but it was in motion and reaching for something.

I guess all I can say is that if I were in this situation in Castile's position, my hands would be in plain view firmly on the steering wheel until I got instructions.

Unless you're driving while black, you probably won't have to worry about it.

If the officer had said to stop moving, I'm sure Philando would have complied. He WAS actively complying with police instructions. If that made the officer nervous, he should have modified his instructions.

The video afterwards, by Ms. Reynolds, after she watched the father of her child be murdered in cold blood is chilling.

"Sir." She repeatedly calls him sir, because she KNOWS she has to. Even though she, and her three year old, just witnessed murder. "Sir." THAT is presence of mind that she shouldn't have to have, but has to because of the color of her skin.

That is sickening. This whole thing is.

To say the officer wasn't trained well enough or shouldn't have been a police officer is minimizing the actual issue. Mr. Castile was killed JUST because he was a black man. If it had been a white family in the car, they would have been waived on through.

 

[lisaviolet]

I happen to think the officer in this case was out of line in the use of deadly force. That said, I don't think it helps anyone to jump to the idea "police" are the problem, "police" are racist, etc.

Did you think she was saying police are the problem and police are racist from her post? Truly interested.

 

[lisaviolet]

There's an editorial rant that aired on NRA-TV. No official response from the NRA top brass.

Historically, it's unusual for the NRA to respond to the misdeeds of an individual rank & file police officer regardless of the situation. Police officers are more likely to be NRA members than any other profession and ALL police officers receive training from the NRA, so it's a sticky situation.

If there is to be any official response at all, it is likely to be targeting of the legislation that protected Yanez. But, I would say it's unlikely as again, that will be seen as anti-police.

Thank you for explaining their history and stance Gumbo. I had no clue that all police officers receive training from the NRA.

Are you confident that they would still have no response if it was a white man that was shot by police in this situation? Truly curious. I'm not at all confident. Meaning it is very difficult for me to understand that an organization that promotes the rights of gun owners to carry arms would not have a thought on this situation or outcome - despite their ties to police officers. You've fully explained to me how they work, how they've chosen to address these issues historically and the conflict of interest. I am just completely perplexed thinking about their aggressive stance on so many issues, but no words on this situation.

I would hope that many NRA members question their lack of response.

_____________________________

I've also heard that Mr. Castile didn't legally need to state that he had a permit and a weapon. It is just what is strongly suggested to immediately do in this kind of situation. it would be nonsensical not to let an officer know but I am left wondering what if he didn't.

I would imagine the laws vary state by state on this issue - legally needing to acknowledge the concealed weapon, yes?

 

[lisaviolet]

"Sir." She repeatedly calls him sir, because she KNOWS she has to. Even though she, and her three year old, just witnessed murder. "Sir." THAT is presence of mind that she shouldn't have to have, but has to because of the color of her skin.

That is sickening. This whole thing is.

Truly.

I have often thought about people's restraint in these situations. How absolutely extraordinary it is. I could not have such restraint and presence of mind.

 

[lisaviolet]

Years later, I was coincidentally in a parenting group with a black university professor who'd married a white man, and a white gov't worker who'd married a black man. I remember listening to them compare notes on what it was like to raise biracial children. The university prof was constantly being mistaken for a nanny, because her children were fairer than her. Even when she was walking to her office on campus! And the gov't employee was either assumed to be an unwed teen mom with a black baby, or else - if she was in her professional clothes - her child's adoptive mother. Both found this incredibly frustrating and demeaning, to both them and their kids.

I don't know why we haven't moved on from this nonsense yet.

Because we can't talk openly about these issues. And listen. And hear our own ignorant thoughts.

People refuse to understand that we all are not treated the same. Not even close. People will do anything not to admit that fact, or see it. Like it's death to acknowledge.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

There's nothing worse than a scared man with a gun. If you're a cop you shouldn't be easily startled. IMO you have to have strong nerves and not jump and react to everything.

Do I think this cop was racist? I don't know but i do think he stereotyped him which caused him to react the way he did. I would bet my life had it been a white family in the car they would've went home alive.

It's so disturbing how his gf kept calling the cop Sir. To me its like the black slave begging Massa for her life. I remember when it happened and they aired the video it made me sick to my stomach. I turned to my bf and said "she's making sure she doesn't get shot too."

I have friends from all walks of life. If we are out and about we always have the white petson drive. We truly believe we're less likely to get pulled over or harassed by cops, including the white person.

True story: I was out with my bff. She's white, blond hair green eyes. We're in Philadelphia trying to find this bar/club. She waves a cop down to ask him for directions (I would never wave a cop down but she's ok with that). The cop says "oh you don't want to go that way. It's all black clubs over there." We both just stared at him and when he left we both asked the other if we really heard that. Yup. Funny thing is my friend is married to a black man and we were headed to the "black" club.