Pit-Bull's...friend or foe?

Yes, I think she was responding to Jennasis's post that listed a bunch of bite incidents that you had quoted.
Yes I was responding to Jennasis's post. She listed all the bites she was personally aware of, and it was quite a few. So I asked if she worked with animals because she was personally aware of so many incidents. Sorry for the confusion.
 
The two articles above, what tragedies for sure. I talked to my son about this post yesterday and he said, if he were walking down the street with his son and someone approached with a Pit Bull on leash, he would cross the street. He said no matter what...dogs are still beasts. He also talked about taking his dog (some kind of Italian breed) to the dog park, we were talking about owners, and he said sometimes people just don't know dog behaviors, they don't research or learn how to manage their dogs. He said all the dogs in the park are off leash and this one women came into the no leash area, with her dog on the leash. All the dogs ran up to the new dog, to greet it, and she was all sketched out, pulling up on the dog's leash, trying to get away from all the dogs. People in the park, yelled, take the dog off the leash. It just wanted to go and play with the other dogs and she was freaking out.
 


Those are all so upsetting... I really, really don’t want her to get this dog and I don’t think she has the time or resources to really make sure this dog adjusts well. I’ll show this article to her.
I'd feel as strongly about it as you but perhaps consider another approach? I'd likely try to find her another, more suitable dog and have her fall in love with it. I'd be scouring the web pages of every shelter and rescue in proximity and not rest until I came up with some better options and get them in front of her asap. With a little coaxing, and encouragement on your part (yay nice dog - who's a good dog?!! :teeth: ) this will probably work better than trying to convince her against the pit bull.

It sort of seems (since you explained about the greyhound) maybe your Mom thinks she can just "test-drive" dogs to see if they work out but in the case of an aggressive pit, the stakes are far, far higher than a chewed up couch. I wish you all well. :flower3:
 
The two articles above, what tragedies for sure. I talked to my son about this post yesterday and he said, if he were walking down the street with his son and someone approached with a Pit Bull on leash, he would cross the street. He said no matter what...dogs are still beasts. He also talked about taking his dog (some kind of Italian breed) to the dog park, we were talking about owners, and he said sometimes people just don't know dog behaviors, they don't research or learn how to manage their dogs. He said all the dogs in the park are off leash and this one women came into the no leash area, with her dog on the leash. All the dogs ran up to the new dog, to greet it, and she was all sketched out, pulling up on the dog's leash, trying to get away from all the dogs. People in the park, yelled, take the dog off the leash. It just wanted to go and play with the other dogs and she was freaking out.
I agree with your son on the dog parks. There is a lot of bad doggie behavior, as I said earlier in the thread, especially on introductions and bullying (some) other dogs. I can understand that lady was probably a little afraid to let her dog go in the park, but a bunch of dogs ganging up on another dog who's leashed as they're entering the park isn't a good situation, either. If one had started biting, a pack mentality could've ensued and there could've been a problem. Dogs can usually get away from other dogs when they're running free, and in a fun manner (depending on the personalities of the dogs; "weak" dogs probably shouldn't be at a dog park because they're at risk). Even my relatively small terrier can run amazingly fast, the big dogs can't catch him so it's a little comical to watch - but then at some point when he gets tired he turns around and stands his ground with his tail up and his chest out and the big dogs usually stop in their tracks knowing he's not an easy prey, he's a tough little guy. He was bitten once by a chocolate lab over a ball, which didn't make me too happy, but as I've said here, food, and sometimes toys, at dog parks can cause problems when dogs are willing to fight over them. Overall my dog loves dog parks and we go to many wherever we happen to be. But I prefer the ones that have a lot of places for the dogs to explore (and get away from other dogs who might be bothering them) to rectangular ones where there's little choice for dogs to be in eachothers' faces. But when in a dog park, good manners should apply. Dogs who are bothering other dogs should be redirected by owners, and that often doesn't happen, like it does at a training class. I, personally, have never had a problem with any pit bulls at a dog park. We were at one near a relative's house where it was almost all pit bulls, and I admit at first I was a little hesitant, but we went in and they were fine, primarily running around playing with eachother, and frankly, I was happy to see them letting out their energy in such a positive way, which is important for most dogs.
 
The reason doesn't matter to me.

The end result is the same; advocating for the destruction of all in a specific group of animals based on characteristics. For pit bulls it's based on reputation and their physical characteristics which people associate with the name, for black cats it's the color of their fur.

If it makes you feel better about my stance I have that towards all animals not just dogs or cats.

Maybe to you the reason makes it different in your opinion though. It does not for me. YMMV.

And just as an aside while I wouldn't associate superstitiousness with advocating for the destruction of all dogs labeled pit bulls as a general comment since you said people are ridiculous for black cats one could make the case that someone who is for the destruction (or fear) of all dogs labeled pit bulls are ridiculous. That's not reflective of my actual opinion though.
It doesn’t matter if the reason ppl don’t want black cats is superstition & aesthetics & the reason ppl don’t want pitbulls is b/c they might kill you? I think that absolutely matters. One is just silliness the other is precautionary.
 


It doesn’t matter if the reason ppl don’t want black cats is superstition & aesthetics & the reason ppl don’t want pitbulls is b/c they might kill you? I think that absolutely matters. One is just silliness the other is precautionary.
I did say YMMV. Sounds like the reason matters to you, it doesn't to me. Advocating for the destruction of an animal based on what I previously mentioned I'm not for. The end result is the same.

Again, not reflective of my opinion but one could say it's silliness to want to euthanize all pit bulls (or any breed for that matter). One could also say it's precautionary to euthanize black cats because of their belief of them.
 
It doesn’t matter if the reason ppl don’t want black cats is superstition & aesthetics & the reason ppl don’t want pitbulls is b/c they might kill you? I think that absolutely matters. One is just silliness the other is precautionary.
The odds of dying from a dog attack is about 1 in 18 million. I'll happily take my chances. I'm more likely to die by being struck by lightening or from being attacked by a swarm of bees.
 
It doesn’t matter if the reason ppl don’t want black cats is superstition & aesthetics & the reason ppl don’t want pitbulls is b/c they might kill you? I think that absolutely matters. One is just silliness the other is precautionary.

I think the disagreement here stems from the fact that you honestly may be afraid of all dogs of a certain breed. And that’s ok if you feel that way.

Heck I am afraid of white roosters. Will not get out of the car at a house that has one running loose. Been attacked by three different ones at three different houses. Well, attacked once, chased twice.

Anyway, perhaps a more like to like comparison is should I want the euthanasia of all white roosters?

Pit bull attacks are an owner problem for some, an individual dog problem for others but it’s simply not reflective of the whole breed.
 
The odds of dying from a dog attack is about 1 in 18 million. I'll happily take my chances. I'm more likely to die by being struck by lightening or from being attacked by a swarm of bees.
:rolleyes1 I'd imagine the weighted odds do go up if one is in regular proximity to a dog physically capable of killing. Statistics are tricky like that.
 
:rolleyes1 I'd imagine the weighted odds do go up if one is in regular proximity to a dog physically capable of killing. Statistics are tricky like that.
And obviously if someone is around them that often then they're not worried! Just saying, the small chance it might happen shouldn't cause all this fear. People are getting shot on the Chicago expressways while driving, but that's not going to stop me from driving to work every day. The odds of being struck by lightening aren't going to stop me from going outside during the next week when it is supposed to storm every day. The fear of being killed by a shark isn't stopping most people from going into the ocean every day. There are SO MANY other things that can hurt you that we all do every single day and I personally find the fear of a single breed of dog to be far, far down the list of things we should be arguing this much about.
 
I think the disagreement here stems from the fact that you honestly may be afraid of all dogs of a certain breed. And that’s ok if you feel that way.

Heck I am afraid of white roosters. Will not get out of the car at a house that has one running loose. Been attacked by three different ones at three different houses. Well, attacked once, chased twice.

Anyway, perhaps a more like to like comparison is should I want the euthanasia of all white roosters?

Pit bull attacks are an owner problem for some, an individual dog problem for others but it’s simply not reflective of the whole breed.
I don’t advocate for euthanasia of anything. I just would never own one. I’m not afraid of any breed no more then I’m afraid of tigers. But, I recognize their potential for lethal destruction & don’t take those kinds of chances with my pets or family. That is not the same as not liking black cats. There IS evidence that certain breeds of dogs are more dangerous. There is no evidence that you will have bad luck if a black cat crosses your path. That’s just absurd.
 
And obviously if someone is around them that often then they're not worried! Just saying, the small chance it might happen shouldn't cause all this fear. People are getting shot on the Chicago expressways while driving, but that's not going to stop me from driving to work every day. The odds of being struck by lightening aren't going to stop me from going outside during the next week when it is supposed to storm every day. The fear of being killed by a shark isn't stopping most people from going into the ocean every day. There are SO MANY other things that can hurt you that we all do every single day and I personally find the fear of a single breed of dog to be far, far down the list of things we should be arguing this much about.
Some risks are unavoidable to be able to live & enjoy life. However, owning a potentially dangerous animal is an unnecessary risk IMO.
 
I don’t advocate for euthanasia of anything. I just would never own one. I’m not afraid of any breed no more then I’m afraid of tigers. But, I recognize their potential for lethal destruction & don’t take those kinds of chances with my pets or family. That is not the same as not liking black cats. There IS evidence that certain breeds of dogs are more dangerous. There is no evidence that you will have bad luck if a black cat crosses your path. That’s just absurd.

You keep comparing them to tigers. Tigers are a wild animal that pretty much cannot be domesticated. A very different thing. About the same as the fear of the dog and a black car.
 
Most of the incidents I described were 20+ years ago. The only recent one was the dalmation (last year). I checked with the owner and there was something to the effect of they had to show proof of rabies, but the dog was never removed from the home or visited by AC or anything.

Interestingly, I was bitten (badly) by a horse last year and to my knowledge the doctor didn't report it (though did ask if the horse had its rabies shot, which it did).
 
You keep comparing them to tigers. Tigers are a wild animal that pretty much cannot be domesticated. A very different thing. About the same as the fear of the dog and a black car.
I say that b/c tigers, bears, lions, and other wild animals have successfully been domesticated in the past. For the most part, they don’t attack their owners. But, sometimes they do & when they do it’s usually deadly. I think that’s exactly analogous to owning a pitbull. Most of the time it’s ok, but when it’s not, it very bad.
 
I'd feel as strongly about it as you but perhaps consider another approach? I'd likely try to find her another, more suitable dog and have her fall in love with it. I'd be scouring the web pages of every shelter and rescue in proximity and not rest until I came up with some better options and get them in front of her asap. With a little coaxing, and encouragement on your part (yay nice dog - who's a good dog?!! :teeth: ) this will probably work better than trying to convince her against the pit bull.

It sort of seems (since you explained about the greyhound) maybe your Mom thinks she can just "test-drive" dogs to see if they work out but in the case of an aggressive pit, the stakes are far, far higher than a chewed up couch. I wish you all well. :flower3:

This is actually exactly what I did! She's actually decided to wait to adopt since she just doesn't have the space in her current place.
 
We are quick to accept that breeds like border collies instinctively "herd" other animals, including children. (I know, we have 2 Aussies, and my dad has 2 border collies, and they are great at herding cows without ever having been to herding school) ;-)
Animals instinctively migrate to the same locations their ancestors migrated to, without any guidance.
Animals instinctively know how to nurture their young, etc etc etc.

It seems to me, the pro pit-bull crowd is willing to accept all the cuddly, fuzzy aspects of instinct and breeding, but choose to ignore the negative traits.
They were bred to maim and kill. It's not the dog's fault, but it's literally coded in their DNA. They may be sweet and cuddly 99% of the time, but it's that 1% that is the risk.

I'm just one person, but there are 3 people in my life that were once big "pit bull advocates.
1. Boss' daughter was attacked, requiring years of plastic surgery. Her scars are still visible today on her face. It was their neighbor's dog.
2. Friend's daughter was attacked, requiring surgery.
3. Friends had 2 pit bulls. One day, they returned home and found one dog mauled to death, and the other one mortally wounded. My friend's wife was pregnant at the time, and they were very close to having a baby in that house.

These aren't people that were involved in dog fighting. They weren't rescue dogs. They weren't abused. They were dogs that slept on the bed with their owners and treated like children. Something just snaps, and with this breed, the damage is worse that other breeds. Powerful jaws, muscular body, hardwired to kill when triggered.
 
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