Proof WDW inflates wait times during off peak season

[snappy]

Long lines during the regular day, makes for an easier sale of the "low crowd" parties, events.

Pretty sure those tickets will increase then too. I feel better already.

 

[ENJDisneyFan]

I am just not buying that they are deliberately running rides at lower capacity to prolong guest wait times and distribute the crowd in the park
1. It runs counter to keeping people spending money
2. That tinfoil is just a little too thick for me to wear
3. Even if the upper brass thought this way, I doubt you could train all the CM's to do it. Much less to do it effectively. It would be almost impossible in fact.
4. It's too risky for exactly this reason. If it got out, it would anger a lot of people with not enough risk to gain.

I think what they MEANT by that quote is that they hoped to even out the crowds naturally so that there wouldn't be a busy time and a lull time - i.e. constant level crowds; not constant level waits. This is nothing new - they have been manipulating crowds with deal prices for decades. This is just another tool in their toolbelt for doing the same.

They aren’t doing it JUST to distribute crowds. It always comes down to money. Somehow, even if it’s not obvious how, they are saving money. They aren’t training CMs to intentionally not fill the rides. They have fewer CMs working and by default that one CM can load fewer people than multiple CMs could. It’s all about $$$$

 

[SL6827]

Also, long lines will help the sale of Fast Passes when they are released for more than just those in the Club Level rooms. Like the above poster said, it is all about the $$$$.

 

[SL6827]

Pretty sure those tickets will increase then too. I feel better already.

Correct.

 

[mamamelody2]

We were there August 30th - September 8th and noted the same thing with many rides. I couldn't figure out why they were not filling up the rides.

We were there the exact same dates, and didn't notice that ever! I guess we were just lucky.

 

[disneyseniors]

Long lines during the regular day, makes for an easier sale of the "low crowd" parties, events.

I think you hit one of the major nails on the head! When people get frustrated seeing long lines all the time, guess what they do??? If they hear about it on the Disney sites, guess what they do. They might say, well, I'm not gonna wait, I'll just pay to go to DAH!!
It might back fire when those same guests try Universal or hear about how easy, stress free, and fun it is over there?

 

[SL6827]

I think you hit one of the major nails on the head! When people get frustrated seeing long lines all the time, guess what they do??? If they hear about it on the Disney sites, guess what they do. They might say, well, I'm not gonna wait, I'll just pay to go to DAH!!
It might back fire when those same guests try Universal or hear about how easy, stress free, and fun it is over there?

Right, and with the future of Fast Passes going in the same direction as the parking has, well.......

 

[Daisy1940]

It also seems to run counter to everything we know about the stated goal of FP+, which was to increase profits by keeping people out of lines and thus in the restaurants and shops.

Yes ^ this 100%

I was thinking this same thing while reading the thread. Keeping people in lines keeps them from doing higher margin activities such as eating in restaurants, buying drinks and snacks, shopping, or even hanging at the resort pool drinking cocktails. From a financial perspective Disney should be doing anything and everything to keep people out of lines. Same as from a customer satisfaction perspective (which also translates into better financials. Happy customers = loyalty = $$$)

Someone up thread mentioned having guests in line keeps them from going offsite but I don’t think the number of people who would do that is large enough to be meaningful. Most guests prepurchase their park tickets and lock themselves into a certain number of days. They aren’t going to go offsite and waste that day from their ticket just because they “finished” the parks. More likely they will go back to a park (and ride fewer rides and spend more time shopping and eating) or do something else on property (many guests don’t have cars) spending more money.

None of this line manipulation makes financial sense. The labor costs for a few more cast members (making little more than minimum wage) to run rides at full (or even just higher capacity) cannot be worth more than several hundred customers per hour out of lines and spending money.

I was also there over Labor Day weekend and experienced this multiple times (peoplemover stopping guests from loading every 3-4 minutes just because, pirates running only one side, TSMM with only one track open and cast members clearly annoyed about it because of the back up) during peak hours of the day.

 

[upstateNYer]

I am just not buying that they are deliberately running rides at lower capacity to prolong guest wait times and distribute the crowd in the park
1. It runs counter to keeping people spending money

The goal is not to have people spend more money, but to SAVE money. See my point number three. Though I could argue people will end up spending more money. If the crowd is light, one could possibly do everything in the park quicker. This would allow an extra few hours, or even a day, where one could go offsite to spend money. Longer wait times beholden one to the park they are at.
2. That tinfoil is just a little too thick for me to wear

We can agree to disagree
3. Even if the upper brass thought this way, I doubt you could train all the CM's to do it. Much less to do it effectively. It would be almost impossible in fact.

Lets take the Peoplemover, as an example. Lets say that one CM is needed at the top of the walkway. Two CMs are needed for loading, one loads while the other helps more guests onto the walkway. Two CMs are needed to help a full train off the ride and onto the platform. Thats a total of 5 CMs. Now, reduce capacity and only fill half the train. Now, only need one CM at the walkway, and one to load and one to unload. That saves 2 CMs, or, 24 man hours a day, assuming twelve hour operating day. At even just 10 dollars an hour, that is 240 dollars a day. Times 365 days a year, thats 87,600 saved a year. Imagine over multiple rides? And all it effects is a little more wait time for some guests, which the brass feels is worth it. Which is the issue.
4. It's too risky for exactly this reason. If it got out, it would anger a lot of people with not enough risk to gain.

But management believes, probably rightly, people are going to show up anyways.

I think what they MEANT by that quote is that they hoped to even out the crowds naturally so that there wouldn't be a busy time and a lull time - i.e. constant level crowds; not constant level waits. This is nothing new - they have been manipulating crowds with deal prices for decades. This is just another tool in their toolbelt for doing the same.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

They aren’t doing it JUST to distribute crowds. It always comes down to money. Somehow, even if it’s not obvious how, they are saving money. They aren’t training CMs to intentionally not fill the rides. They have fewer CMs working and by default that one CM can load fewer people than multiple CMs could. It’s all about $$$$

The problem I have with that theory is that the numbers do not add up.
Take RnR. Each train takes 24 riders in a 2x12 configuration. In the ideal world, you have one CM that pushes people down to the loading area, one CM that puts them in the rows, one CM that checks the seats, and one to push the button to go. Disney requires 2 CM's to check the seats for safety. Ideally, each passenger gets into their seat and pulls the head bar down. All the CM has to do is walk the line and help anyone who didn't do it right (this is rare).

If you have an empty train, the train can't just go. The CM actually has to go down the line and close each empty seat. This takes longer than just walking the line. Not a LOT longer - an extra 5 seconds on so per seat. But still longer.

I.E. the trains run SLOWER and require more CM's or at least it runs at a reduced capacity - maybe from 1800 / hr down to about 1600 / hr by running empty trains.

In other words, the math just doesn't add up. Empty trains cost money - they don't save money.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Lets take the Peoplemover, as an example. Lets say that one CM is needed at the top of the walkway. Two CMs are needed for loading, one loads while the other helps more guests onto the walkway. Two CMs are needed to help a full train off the ride and onto the platform. Thats a total of 5 CMs. Now, reduce capacity and only fill half the train. Now, only need one CM at the walkway, and one to load and one to unload. That saves 2 CMs, or, 24 man hours a day, assuming twelve hour operating day.

Except that your premise is incorrect. I have NEVER seen 2 CM's unload the peoplemover and I ride it every trip. I have never seen 2 load the train. And I always see it full. It runs at 3-4 CM's regardless if they are running full trains or half trains.

Again, it makes sense in SOME rides (Pirates, Space Mountain, Raceway all come to mind). It makes no sense on rides that are continuous (HM, Ariel, etc), no sense on shows (CoP) and no sense on Single Loader Trains (PeopleMover, RnR, SDD, 7DMT, EE, etc)

 

[98Navi]

I think everyone is missing an obvious reason for Disney wanting to inflate ride wait times even when it's slow. Look at all of the extra events they are now trying to sell- the early morning events at MK and DHS, the after-hours event at MK, and extra FP's for Club Level guests. How would it affect sales if there were reports that all rides were walk-ons during normal operating hours? In order to sell these extra events, they need reports that "there are no slow times." So, they manipulate things to cause waits. That helps sell these extras.

 

[dwheaton]

I think everyone is missing an obvious reason for Disney wanting to inflate ride wait times even when it's slow. Look at all of the extra events they are now trying to sell- the early morning events at MK and DHS, the after-hours event at MK, and extra FP's for Club Level guests. How would it affect sales if there were reports that all rides were walk-ons during normal operating hours? In order to sell these extra events, they need reports that "there are no slow times." So, they manipulate things to cause waits. That helps sell these extras.

Exactly! Instead of working to build a situation where guests can experience lower wait times and have the best day at the park, Disney promotes the scarcity by inflating wait times in low time periods. This then leads people (including me) to want to spend money on After Hours experiences and potentially to spend on FastPasses in the future. It creates a different theme park model where it's about paying for access, not just based on having the best experience for every guest on a daily basis. I think that's already backfired in a way given the light crowds and occupancy Disney is seeing (it's not just waiting for Galaxy's Edge). But Disney is still making profits and will continue to go this route. They can't go back now.

 

[Superchikk]

We experienced these same things in the parks last week. While the parks didn't seem crowded at all, some of the ride times were crazy. There's no reason that 7DMT, PP, and Space should be 70, 45, and 35 minutes when Mermaid, Pirates, Small World, HM, and Dumbo are virtually walk-on. I'm fine with a short wait, but there's no reason it should be long waits during low times.

When we went in September 2013, we walked on to basically everything. My kids LOVED it and had an absolute blast. When we took them back in Nov 2015, we had bigger crowds and MUCH longer wait times. More than 30 minutes for most things we didn't have FP for, at what was considered to be a lower crowd time (After Jersey Week, F&W ended, before Thanksgiving). The value didn't increase for them because they had to wait longer. We didn't spend more time in the parks because we had to wait longer. We just had grouchy kids, and that made us want to leave.

Last week, it was just DH & me. So we could be a lot more flexible with our time. We were able to be strategically flexible about our rides because we didn't have a little heart set on doing something next. We walked all over the place to avoid longer lines. And it made no sense. JC was walk-on, but Pirates was 35 minutes. Then vice versa. It's like they were trading their ride capacities. Aliens was a 25 minute wait, but they were only running at half capacity. SDD was a 45 minute wait, and I'm certain they were not running as many trains as they could've. TSM was a 25 minute wait as well. ToT was always around 25-45 minutes. However, there never seemed to be that many people in line. Similar situation with RnR. It takes the same number of people to staff it, so the only thing I can think of is wear & tear. But if they're sending empty boats/cars/trains, that doesn't make sense, either.

 

[SL6827]

I think everyone is missing an obvious reason for Disney wanting to inflate ride wait times even when it's slow. Look at all of the extra events they are now trying to sell- the early morning events at MK and DHS, the after-hours event at MK, and extra FP's for Club Level guests. How would it affect sales if there were reports that all rides were walk-ons during normal operating hours? In order to sell these extra events, they need reports that "there are no slow times." So, they manipulate things to cause waits. That helps sell these extras.

Exactly, once again. It is all about the $$$$$. Longer lines does makes sense for the selling of the "extra" events. Maybe or perhaps people were not spending enough in stores and dining when they were not in the lines, so they need to recoup those losses with these paid hard ticket events. Just speculation here.

 

[SL6827]

I am sure that Disney would love for every day to be a two ticket needed day in the Magic Kingdom.

 

[ntmec]

While I don't like waiting in line anymore than anyone else, and will probably draw the line when the day comes that we have to pay for FastPass, I do realize that Disney is a publicly held company and they do have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders to try and run their business in the most profitable way possible. If sending empty trains & teacups is resulting in higher profits, the shareholders are happy. If all of the shareholders are also park attenders and complain about wait times, maybe something will change. Until that happens, it's probably going to continue to be all about the $$$$.

 

[bb32]

While I don't like waiting in line anymore than anyone else, and will probably draw the line when the day comes that we have to pay for FastPass, I do realize that Disney is a publicly held company and they do have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders to try and run their business in the most profitable way possible. If sending empty trains & teacups is resulting in higher profits, the shareholders are happy. If all of the shareholders are also park attenders and complain about wait times, maybe something will change. Until that happens, it's probably going to continue to be all about the $$$$.

True.

I don’t have any issue with Disney trying to increase profits, however hopefully it’ll continue to be done with their purpose in mind of providing customers magical experiences. It’ll be tough for me to continue wanting to go to WDW once we start seeing $$$ for fast passes, $$$ to enter early or stay late, $$$ for this or that. Of course it’ll all be optional, but personally rubs me the wrong way and I’d rather spend my money on something else. It’s already expensive as it is.

 

[snappy]

Yep it comes down to value. You may be willing to pay more if you get more. But with shorter Park days, less ride capacity, cutting back on entertainers like the citizens of Hollywood, unreliable MDE, guests may question the value.

 

[SL6827]

Yep it comes down to value. You may be willing to pay more if you get more. But with shorter Park days, less ride capacity, cutting back on entertainers like the citizens of Hollywood, unreliable MDE, guests may question the value.

Correct. I have been wanting to do a holiday party for a while, but with what I have been reading, I am not getting that there is much value left in them. More and more tickets being sold, just doesn't sound fun. Now I have yet to read that many negative reviews about the DAH event, but if they up the amount of tickets sold for those after some time, the value of those events will be gone as well to me.