Sorry to crash the party (I'm a girl), but I couldn't resist replying to some of these intriguing responses...
Please forgive me.
A run-of-the-mill princess story!?!? How is that possible? It is the most unique princess story ever.
That's debatable. I think if one were to make a list of the most original/unique princess stories/Disney movies out there,
Frozen would deservedly be included, but I'm not sure whether or not it would be
the most unique.
You said "princess story," which is broad enough to include both fairy tales -- like the original stories the Disney films originated from, including Hans Christian Andersen's
Snow Queen, for which, of course,
Frozen is loosely based off -- and the like, but in order to make things simpler I'll limit the qualifying material to only Disney princess films instead.
Frozen is a more unique spin on a princess tale than any of the earliest Disney princess movies:
Cinderella, Snow White and
Sleeping Beauty. (I'm basing this off how different the film was from your average fairy tale/princess story, how cleverly written it was, how realistic the characters are/how well developed the characters are, et cetera... which is why I can say in confidence that
Frozen beats out those three at the very least; though I'm not knocking any of those films, mind you.)
The Little Mermaid would also most likely be out, as Ariel pines away for her prince and ultimately proves herself to be rather foolish and stupid, yet despite the many mistakes she makes throughout the film (and basically how idiotic she acts), she never really has to pay a price for this and ends up with her "happily ever after" and prince. There are original aspects to the film (and it is a great film, don't get me wrong), but it could hardly be called Disney's most unique princess tale as it is basically your run-of-the-mill princess story, just Disney-ified.
Aladdin would be out, also, because it's not really a princess movie even if it stars a princess (however, if we're ranking princesses rather than the films they're from, I would say Jasmine is pretty darn unique). I would also leave
Pocahontas and
Mulan out of the running, since their leading ladies are not technically princesses, despite what some ill-informed people may tell you (yes, I'm aware Pocahontas is the daughter of a chief, but that
does not mean she's a princess -- she also never marries into a royal family like Cinderella and others do).
Which basically leaves us with
Frozen, Tangled, The Princess and the Frog, Beauty and the Beast and
Brave.
One may say that
Frozen is the most unique out of that bunch, and I can see why they would argue that, as
Frozen is pretty unique compared to both fairy tales and earlier Disney princess films. That said, I personally find
Brave to be far more unique. There's no true love or true love's kiss for Merida, in fact, she resists the concept all together (which is nearly unheard of for fairy tales and especially Disney princess movies; even Jasmine didn't dislike the idea of true love, in fact it was her desire for it that made her resist an arranged marriage). Never in the film is she shown as pining for any man, royal or otherwise, nor does she desperately aspire to marry as Anna does (and yes, Anna has reasons to aspire to marry, due in large part to her naïvety and loneliness -- but no matter what her reasons are, it's still pretty unoriginal).
Elsa's a great and unique character, but Merida's equally unique if not more so. Merida's feuding with her mother and butting heads with her family and tradition also makes her as realistic -- albeit in different ways -- as Elsa, not to mention her tomboyish streak, independence, foolish actions, and even her self-centeredness.
Brave as a whole is a much more unique princess film by my way of thinking, with original and realistic characters, a lack of clichés (which
Frozen has plenty of), a less flawless-looking main character (Merida has a more realistic body type and looks less like your average Disney princess than Elsa or Anna do), et cetera. I also think
Tangled, Beauty and the Beast and
The Princess and the Frog are pretty unique, but
Brave stands out the most to me, by far.
There are so many wonderful things: Replacing the villain with fear, making two princesses sisters, protagonists, and heroes. I like the exceptionally well written characters of Elsa and Anna that exhibit real world personality traits and are written to act consistently with those traits in a believable manner from beginning to end. The prince & love at first sight being bad is fantastic. The idea that sacrificial love is the answer and the strongest magic is great. The way a man doesn't save the day but works together as an equal with the princess and both work to save the day together.
That's true. And all of that, in part, is why
Frozen is near the top of my most-unique-Disney-princess-films list (albeit behind
Brave -- which, for the record, I didn't even enjoy as much as I enjoyed
Frozen, unique or not).
There are so many fantastic things wrapped up in an animated movie that is one of the most beautiful computer generated movies ever. The snow is just amazing! A well written correctly paced story with a hilarious snowman sidekick that loves summer.
The animation is undeniably spectacular -- even I, a hand drawn/traditional animation purist, was blown away. The film was also quite comedic, too, as you said. I expected to be annoyed by Olaf, but I actually found him pretty charming.
I don't recall being particularly bowled over by the pacing, though. Guess I'll have to re-watch it and see.
I think the one primary reason young girls like Elsa is the fact that she is a young person who is self conscious and unsure of herself but she loves and is good, learns to embrace herself, AND has a cool super power.
Precisely. I've also noticed a large number of people with mental illnesses relate to Elsa's struggle -- be it OCD, bipolar disorder, DID, body dysmorphic disorder, or depression, among others. Elsa is a very universal character who I think most of us, in some way or other, can relate to -- some more strongly than others.
Elsa was, in my opinion, easily
Frozen's biggest asset. She is also one of the greatest characters Disney has given us, I think. Some may not realize just how deep, universal, complex and compelling she is, but to those of us who do, it's quite extraordinary.
Easy to see why so many like and relate to her (myself included).
3. Then we jump to the palace were little Elsa and Anna share a room, but Anna (the younger and more playful sister) is awake and sees the northern lights and teases Elsa into getting up with the line "Do you wanna build a snowman?" i.e. Do you want to use your powers? After the accident, the visit to the trolls reveals that Fear will be Elsa's enemy, but the fear of what? (I feel that writers made the trolls perposefully vague on that point, but never developed this point further.) This is where the next song "Do you want to build a snowman?" ( reminding Elsa of why she is shutting everyone out) is used to show the passage of time and the diverging personalities of the 2 sisters. Lots more could be said here about this, but not now.
Agreed! Brilliant points, all the way around.
5. Next song is "Love is a open door" which is Anna singing and Hans agreeing. Lots could be said here, too about hints to Hans' true character and Anna's nievity and wishfull thinking, and confusing infatuation/desire with true love. Later it is revealed that Hans is hatching a "game of thrones" plot probably during this song.
More wonderful points! I think "Love is an Open Door" is a pretty underrated song; it worked well in the film to display exactly what you mentioned.
6. Next song is Kristof's "Reindeer are better than people" with Kristof again speaking in a different voice for Sven. To me the words to this song show Kristof to be a loner, distrustful of others but knows that others aren't all bad, and that he is far from perfect himself. To me there is a lot of character development in this short song and in the scenes imidiately before and after.
Huh. Very intriguing. I personally thought "Reindeer Are Better Than People" was a one-dimensional song meant for a bit of comic relief and not much else, as well as to bridge the gap between the previous scene and the post-song scene -- but now that you point it out, I think it might've had a bigger purpose to it than just that.
I've griped about Kristoff's character development for some time, but he may just be deeper than I originally thought.
...I need to re-watch that scene either way.
I don't see any of this as female empowerment or not needing a man or sisterly love over finding a man. I see it as a depiction of the difference between infatuation/desire and true love.
I agree! I think that's also a far better message to send children than just "men are jerks and you should never fall in love" -- which isn't healthy, either. Subtly letting kids know that infatuation and falling for someone too quickly could lead to trouble down the road is a much healthier message, especially considering that Disney's always been famous for showing the opposite in their princess films (in which giving up your voice and abandoning your family for someone whom you've only glimpsed makes perfect sense... that darn Ariel!).
There are many messages in
Frozen, of course, and many different ways to interpret them. I like that -- I like that it isn't singularly focused on one core lesson but several that can be viewed in multiple fashions, and all of them healthy.
The fact that Anna does end up with someone (Kristoff) also shows that the movie isn't anti-romance/love, which is good as you wouldn't want children to become jaded!
Healthier and healthier relationships are being shown in Disney films as the years go on, like Rapunzel and Flynn's (their relationship may not be perfect, but they at least get to know each other before developing a romance) in
Tangled, Aladdin and Jasmine's, and now Anna and Kristoff. (The latter are probably the best of the three, due to the fact that Aladdin does lie to Jasmine for a while, and she, even earlier, lies to him -- by omitting the fact that she's a princess. Rapunzel also basically manipulates Flynn into acting as her guide, and Flynn's a thief that breaks into her home... but that's a discussion for another day.)
Olaf's song "In Summer", to me, can be seen as a comparison to Anna's song "For the first time in Forever" in that they are both stary-eyed singing about something they have never experienced but they think they know what to expect. Best part of the song is when Olaf says ..."Winter's a good time to stay in and cuddle, But put me in summer and I'll be a (looks down at a puddle of water) happy snowman." I think Olaf can be seen as a personification of Anna's wishful thinking and nievity. And after the song Kristof says "I'm gonna tell him". but Anna says "Don't you dare." To me this shows that maybe Anna is beginning to see herself in Olaf's song and doesn't want Olaf to have to see the truth, because then she might have to see the truth about her own situation. Lots of poeple are like that in real life. Misery may love company, but self deception can't survive long without it, either.
Very true! I don't how I didn't notice that when I saw
Frozen. Thanks for pointing it out.
While I enjoyed it and I bought it when it came out on DVD (I don't buy everything), it's not near my top Disney movies. I think it's about even with The Princess and the Frog for me (that movie took several viewings before I liked it though). Tangled and Brave are higher on my scale.
Frozen and
Tangled are about even to me. I like them both for very different reasons; it's hard to pick a favorite.
Brave and
The Princess and the Frog, on the other hand, I don't care for very much. I admire
Brave for its originality and wonderful main character, but also find it pretty dull.
The Princess and the Frog I, admittedly, only watched once -- soon after it came out on DVD -- when I was about nine or ten, and hated it. It probably had to due with my age, though, and the fact that at the time I loathed princess movies.
Beacher425,
I won't quote everything you said, but you nailed it! Couldn't agree more.
I agree -- you really did nail it, Beacher. Your take on the film and its symbolism, undertones, emotion and characters were exceptional. I'm only jealous I didn't realize a lot of them sooner!
Another thing: Along with the beautiful and well directed animation acting by the characters, the writing is fantastic. I can't believe people said the characters were poorly developed or poorly written! Those were some of the best developed and written characters.
From our previous
Frozen discussions, you may recall my somewhat-unfavorable, somewhat-harsh take on the character development. I stand by most of what I said, but I do think I might've been a bit too strong with Kristoff. Also, I realize that for the time they had to work with and the other restrictions, the character development
was pretty great. (I still don't think they were some of the best-developed film characters, however; not by any means. Elsa's great, though.)
As for the writing, I don't think it was the best, nor the worst. It was strong, don't get me wrong -- the song writing in particular stood out as wonderful, very Broadway and easy enough to follow. The dialogue varied in quality throughout the film. There was some crude humor in the movie that felt entirely unnecessary, so I ding the writing quite a bit for that (crude humor in films, Disney or otherwise, I absolutely abhor). I get they were trying to appeal to children, but I'm sure the movie would've gone over just as well without that.
Some of the dialogue, both that which was woven into the songs and otherwise, didn't sound very realistic/like what someone would actually say. Many movies suffer from unbelievable dialogue, and I don't think
Frozen was immune to that issue.
In short, I don't think
Frozen had the best writing, no. Similarly, I was only lukewarm to the very popular
Wreck-It Ralph for its crude humor (which was in far more abundance than with
Frozen) and some moments of rough dialogue.
(I may be pickier about dialogue than most, though; being a writer myself who specializes in dialogue, having a character in a film say something that doesn't sound completely natural or realistic -- or, basically, sounds like something someone has scripted for said character to say -- is a big pet peeve of mine.)
Just watching the movie over again and getting the consistency of each sisters unique personality throughout the movie. And this consistency of character design actually carries the story along. For example. Anna is joyus, active, positive, but also quick to want to fix everything, reckless, doesn't listen and gets in bad situations. This carries through from the first time you meet her as a child to her punching Hans. Same thing with Elsa; loving concern for others, a more reserved and fearful demeanor that has both positive and negative characteristics. Again Elsa behaved consistently throughout the film.
That's true, although I still don't consider Anna terribly realistic nor terribly unique. (She is, in a lot of ways, just like Rapunzel and several non-princess Disney characters.)
Yeah, I don't really get the hype about Elsa. For a movie touted as being less of a stereotypical Disney movie, people sure do like the pretty girl who can sing more than they like Anna, who IMO is a much more complex character (not that Kristin Bell can't sing, but you know...next to Indina Menzel).
You're not the only one. I've met several people -- all of them men, interestingly enough -- who felt the same way about Elsa. They didn't "get her." They didn't understand what made her deep, different, compelling, and some didn't even see what made her relatable.
If you don't relate to her, it's harder to see all of her complexities, I think. And I believe that more women relate to her than men -- not that all men don't -- because women especially have to deal with trying to be perfect, fit in, look a certain way, hide their imperfections, et cetera... Elsa is like a heightened version of all that, and all of those insecurities.
Elsa
is pretty, and she
can sing. This does make her similar to past princesses. But what do you expect? She's quite different than earlier princesses like Cinderella and Aurora personality-wise, she just happens to also possess good looks and a nice voice. The good looks because she's a Disney princess (I highly doubt there will ever be an unattractive Disney princess), and the singing voice because she's a Disney princess. It's a musical. She
has to be able to sing. I'm personally glad about that, considering I love Disney musicals and the day they stop having animated singing princesses in their films will be a very, very sad day. (Which will hopefully never happen.)
Anna can also sing, and many people prefer her/Kristen Bell's voice to Idina Menzel's (surprisingly, Menzel is something of an acquired taste; just go on YouTube and read the comments on the "For the First Time in Forever" video; many of the viewers like Bell's softer, sweeter voice over Menzel's icier, more mature tone).
I'm curious as to why you find Anna to be a more complex character? I liked Anna all right, but found her to be a pretty typical Disney girl in most ways, and not incredibly realistic. (I personally have never met someone her age who is as cheerful, optimistic and bold as she -- and even Rapunzel from
Tangled -- is. On the other hand, I've met plenty of girls just like Elsa, myself included.)
