Renting out points worry

It is explicitly permitted in the contract. Commercial renting is forbidden: its definition is not clear, but it looks like at the moment is 20 or more reservations rented per year. A member willing to rent out a few extra points has the right to do so.
That's awesome, thanks for clarifying.
 
Accepting payment for point transfers is what is prohibited.

True, probably because they don't want to deal with possible problem arising with payment between members. However other timeshares not only allow it but support it. I'm going to buy an Hapimag contract (the European timeshare system that invented the points system over 50 years ago) and they have a section on the company website to publish points to transfer. There is a limit on the amount of points one can transfer in every year, equal to the number of points the member owns. A similar system for DVC would make sense.
 
Just because you have a card on file does not mean that DVC will charge it correctly. My card was never charged when I left BLT after a week long stay. I finally called after a week or so to see what was wrong. They told me my card was denied. It was not - someone did something wrong and never let me know that my credit card was not charged. Being the member, I called to fix things and had them charge the card they said was bad. If it were a renter, who knows the outcome :(
The exact same thing happened to me last spring at BWV. Then when I called they acted like it was my fault!
 


Where in any rules does it say the member would be liable in this situation? We all have a deed and that gives us membership of the club which has governing rules. Unless the rules say the renter is responsible for the renters damage or (even more unlikely) unpaid bill, I fail to see what legal mechanism DVC or Disney Parks (who the unpaid bill is likely to be with) could pursue the points owner. Enlighten me anyone who thinks there is a rule stating this , because without this there would be no contractual penalty or breach of contract which is the only legal mechanism to pursue such a loss. Thanks.
 
Where in any rules does it say the member would be liable in this situation? We all have a deed and that gives us membership of the club which has governing rules. Unless the rules say the renter is responsible for the renters damage or (even more unlikely) unpaid bill, I fail to see what legal mechanism DVC or Disney Parks (who the unpaid bill is likely to be with) could pursue the points owner. Enlighten me anyone who thinks there is a rule stating this , because without this there would be no contractual penalty or breach of contract which is the only legal mechanism to pursue such a loss. Thanks.
It's spelled out in the purchase documents. I'll find the exact wording & location when I get back to my desktop. Too hard to do on my tablet.
 
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Below is an excerpt from one of the standard forms provided at closing. This one happens to be for the UK, but I'm sure a comparable one exists for domestic sales.


"Sale and Rental Limitations: Neither DVD, the Club nor any of the DVC Resort associations offer any rental or resale program to Owners. Ownership Interests are offered for personal use and enjoyment only and should not be purchased for resale or as an investment opportunity or with any expectation of achieving rental income, capital appreciation, or any other financial return or valuable benefit, including any tax benefit. You should not purchase an Ownership Interest based upon any expectation of deriving any rental or other revenue or profit therefrom. You should not purchase an Ownership Interest with any expectation that that you will be able to rent, sell or refinance any Ownership Interest. As a practical matter, resale of an Ownership Interest or rental of a reserved Vacation Homes will be difficult given certain restrictions and other factors affecting resale, refinancing or rental. One such factor is the competition for sales and rentals that you will face from the sales and rental of unsold inventory by DVD and the sales and rental activities of The TWDC Companies with respect to unrelated properties around each DVC Resort. No rental assistance is being offered by DVD, DVCMC, BVTC or any of the TWDC Companies. This means that if you wish to rent an Ownership Interest, you must rent your occupancy rights solely through your own efforts. As stated above, The TWDC Companies, including, without limitation, DVD, will be in competition with you for renters, and DVD will place its own inventory of Ownership Interests into a rental program of its own. All renters and exchangers must comply with the rules and regulations affecting occupancy of Vacation Homes, and you will be responsible for the acts or omissions of your renters or any other person or persons you permit to use your reserved Vacation Home."

I added the large type formatting. Here's a link to the entire document:

https://disneyvacationclub.disney.g...-Information-form-for-timeshare-contracts.pdf
 


Hi Carol, thanks for finding that, much appreciated.
Seems to be pre contractual documentation (essentially a key facts) for UK Buyers buying direct from Disney. I'd be interested to see if the wording is the same in the actual rules or any contractual agreement. The home resort rules and regulations make no mention of being responsible, it's not in the deed, and so I'd struggle to see how anyone who wasn't presented with that and bought direct could be bound by it (on basic contractual principles). It may be it is in something else, but aside from the deed and home resort regs, I'm not sure what else there is? Maybe some more club rules in some other document? I haven't seen anything else though.
Even if it was legally binding in something else, I don't think acts or omissions would extend to non DVC entities- if someone rung up a bill for example with Disney Parks and didn't pay it. Again, unless this is set out in some contract or rules?
 
Not a lawyer, so all I have is an opinion. If I invite a guest to stay in my apartment and the guest damages it, wouldn't I be responsible if the guest refuses to pay? It' s my name on the lease.

Practically speaking, Disney has the power. They freeze the account and the member loses access until it's resolved. Seems costly to fight, more than the membership is worth.

YMMV.

PS. Don't think documents you need are online anywhere. You would have to request them from the Developer if you can't find the ones you received at closing.
 
Hi Carol
I have all my docs, there's nothing about this in them. Have the deed, nothing in there. Have the Club Rules which are the Home Resort Rules and Regulations, nothing in there.
Thanks to yourself I've seen the pre contract disclosure statement DVD send to UK buyers, and it's mentioned in that, but DVD could put anything in that and it doesn't seem like a rule or contract.
I bought resale so didn't get the pre contract disclosure statement from Disney, never saw it or agreed to it, it cannot be binding on resale buyers.
I read on here this before, Disney can freeze the points someone said, but I hadn't seen any instrument that gave them the legal ability to do so.
Possibly like you suggest they may be trying to rely on some statute somewhere (I'm not a US Lawyer) that makes a lessee liable for damage to the property in the absence of a rule or contractual provision.
It seems more likely that ultimately an owner could be responsible for damage though than costs run up with a third party, unless they could somehow say that by allowing the guest you permitted this.
Oh well, like many things DVC, legally, it seems as clear as mud.
Cheers.
 
Just doing some more research...Apparently there is a master deed that sets out some terms around this. Has anyone got a copy, and if yes can they upload on here? Thanks in advance to anyone who can help in this regard.
 
Here we go, the declaration of condominium with associated relevant documents in the exhibits. This is for Boardwalk , but I imagine they will be very similar for each resort. Was not easy to find. I cannot upload as file too large.
http://or.occompt.com/recorder/eagleweb/downloads/myPdf.pdf?&parent=DOCC10251775
This sets out how the condo is governed, it's rules and regulations, and also it's relationship with the Club.
I've only had a quick scan through. So far I haven't spotted anything that may hold an owner liable for charges a renter has incurred with Disney Parks etc, but it needs much more careful study. Note how any rental agreements should be in writing.
Interesting language in there as well regarding members use of the club, would seem to make it extremely difficult for DVD to limit resale buyers from full club use, but that's another story.
Needs some serious study.
 
......(snip)....... Note how any rental agreements should be in writing.
Interesting language in there as well regarding members use of the club, would seem to make it extremely difficult for DVD to limit resale buyers from full club use, but that's another story...........
Again, not a lawyer and haven't done "serious study" of all the documents. That said, I agree with you about limits to resale buyers - haven't found anything that indicates that DVD/DVC can differentiate between direct and resale owners as far as making reservations or otherwise utilizing the Club. In other words, it looks like an owner is an owner is an owner as far as making reservation rules go. They can't restrict an owner to his/her home resort just because the points were purchased via resale rather than direct. They can't establish different booking windows for resale buyers, either.

But they do have options. For example, what if they established a new club? They put the points they own into the new club and entice existing owners to put their points into the new club, too. All points purchased for new DVC resorts would go into the new Club only. (So none of the "old" club members could book the new DVC resort because no new resort points would be available to the old club). Disney could design the new club differently regarding booking windows, perks & discounts, different exchange options, fees, etc.

Of course, new club members could only make reservations for the existing DVC resorts up to the amount of points transferred from the old club to the new club. So if only 5% of the BWV owners moved to the new club, only 5% of the availability would be available to new club members. But the new club could arrange for "inter-club reservations", perhaps with a shorter booking window. (Old club members could book new club inventory a month or two after existing club members subject to availability and vice versa).

Setting up something like this successfully would probably turn on the number of existing Members that would be willing to transfer points into the new club so that the purchasers of the new resort(s) would have choices. Maybe if DVD did this starting with the Riviera and that resort turns out to be very popular, it would work, since no one in the existing club could book there with old club points. (Of course, Riviera buyers couldn't reserve elsewhere, either, unless existing members transferred their points into the new club, so again, getting this all set up could be a real challenge). Lots of legal issues to work through and this is just one example of what Disney could do if they were motivated to do so.

Not sure if the potential benefit (increased direct sales) of any "new club" would be worth the cost, hassle & angst of establishing it.
 
Hey Carol, don't be giving them any ideas now!
I think though they'd have problems getting any new resort to sell if they were relying on people transferring out to trade in to their points. Also the efficacy of the product would start to collapse. Agreed though it seems to be that type of creative thinking they'd have to adopt to get around the deeds.
Maybe you should be applying to Ken for a job ' Resale Buyer Destroyer Cast Member'
 
If I remember correctly, the seller is supposed to provide the buyer with all documentation. Rarely happens when buying resale, always happens when buying direct.

:earsboy: Bill

 
Hey Carol, don't be giving them any ideas now!
I think though they'd have problems getting any new resort to sell if they were relying on people transferring out to trade in to their points. Also the efficacy of the product would start to collapse. Agreed though it seems to be that type of creative thinking they'd have to adopt to get around the deeds.
Maybe you should be applying to Ken for a job ' Resale Buyer Destroyer Cast Member'

LOL, Wakey - I'm much better at telling people why they CAN"T do whatever it is they want to do - but I've learned to phrase it as "Sure, we can do that, here's how much it will cost..........." That technique shut down my boss' crazy ideas very quickly!) :teeth:
 
I have asked this question of David's twice. Both times they told me they would handle it and they had never had a problem with renters damaging a villa without paying or leaving unpaid charges. I will admit, I was still very nervous!
They have control, DVC can freeze the account and make the owner responsible.

I don't know why more people don't do this instead of renting out their points to people they don't know. Help out your friends and family, church members, neighbors, co workers, etc.
It depends on the individual. Often family/friends are more difficult, more demanding and more likely to take advantage. If I'm renting, I'm not doing it to help out normally, I'd expecting full price. If & when I want to help someone out, I give it to them gratis.
 
I agree with Dean. Sometimes renting to family and friend could be more difficult. They do not understand all the rules regarding handling points (banking, borrow, holding) they think they can cancel 2 weeks before the trip like any Disney reservation without problem. And what do you tell your sister who just lost her dear husband 1 week before the trip and wants to cancel ?

They are pros and cons in each situation ...
 
I don't think I'd trust friends of friends more than I'd trust a stranger with references. And I hate complicating relationships with a business transaction -- you risk the transaction AND the relationship.
Good point.
 
I am new to this forum but I have been trying to find a way get my family to Disney for less that $12,000 and I've been reading a bit on DVC rentals and this seems the best way to go. It also seems to be the way to go if you want to stay at a resort that you normally couldn't afford if you book through Disney. For instance, I looked at the Grand Floridian on the Disney site for an outer view garden room it's $7500, not counting park tickets, but on the rental site I'm seeing a deluxe studio for $2500; how can there be that big of a difference in price? Are DVC's in different parts of the hotel? I really don't know how all of this works and I would love any information that I can get.

As you can see I am planning a trip about 2 years from now...I may be a bit of an over-planner. :-)

I lied, it's 'only' $4700 for the outer view garden room
 
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