Resort pool etiquette: other parents unsafe children

[Gingerfun1]

Sometimes it’s just a no win. They get pissy when you speak to their child. They get defensive when you speak to them. I don’t think there’s any one right way when you’re in a situation and you’re dealing with it yourself. It’s going to vary depending on the situation, child and parent.

Totally agree but I do think starting with the parent/grandparent is better than having a go at the kid unless someone is in immediate danger and/or the adult isn't around. I believe most parents would have a knee jerk mama/papa bear reaction to someone raising their voice at their child but would react a bit more tolerantly to someone bringing a problem to their attention.

 

[Summer2018]

Totally agree but I do think starting with the parent/grandparent is better than having a go at the kid unless someone is in immediate danger and/or the adult isn't around. I believe most parents would have a knee jerk mama/papa bear reaction to someone raising their voice at their child but would react a bit more tolerantly to someone bringing a problem to their attention.

Absolutely. I’m aware that I could have handled it better.

For what it’s worth, I did not raise my voice. My stern voice is actually quite quiet. It lets kids know that I am serious. Also, as far as bringing the problem to their attention, the woman was standing in the pile of dollar items on the floor. She witnessed the child grabbing and throwing things off of the shelves. I think she knew exactly what was going on but chose not to address it.

 

[Bryan Burmeister]

The word "threaten" in this context is correct. When you tell someone, "Do [something] or I will [do something that negatively affects you]." You are threatening them with that action.

Definition of "Threaten"...

• From Merriam-Webster:
  • 2a: to give signs or warning of : PORTEND
    "the clouds threatened rain"
  • 3: to announce as intended or possible
    "the workers threatened a strike"
• From Cambridge Dictionary:
  • [ T ]
    to warn of something unpleasant or unwanted:
    "She threatened legal action against the newspaper"

I don't think anyone here has suggested that the man threatened these children with violence, and if he had said what he did to the children's guardian (ineffective as she might appear) he would have retained much of the moral superiority he thought he had in addressing the minors.

Instead he made the impotent gesture of yelling at kids, telling them to do something he's incapable of forcing them to do himself on the threat of going to get someone else to make them if they refuse. Call it whatever else you like but that is exactly what the OP describes.

This is an absurd take. Obviously, the word can be used in multiple contexts, but the one we are talking about is below. When an irate parent asks "are you the one who threatened my son?" Clearly the below definition is the one at issue.

Also impotent? Really? From my perspective, the only impotent solution was asking the kid's nicely. I.E. the one that didn't have the desired result. Was ineffectual, ignored, unable to do the job, soft............I could go on, but I think you get the point.



Definition of threaten

transitive verb

1: to utter threats against

Definition of threat
(Entry 1 of 2)
1: an expression of intention to inflict evil, injury, or damage

 

[marikujawa]

The bottom line is that these were poorly supervised children doing exactly what can be expected of children who are poorly supervised. Children do not enter this world as fully-formed, properly functioning members of society. They have to be taught, guided, allowed to mature and shown how to handle their mistakes.

When I was raising my kids 25-30 years ago, no one would have batted an eye if another adult told them to calm down or stop doing whatever fool things kids will do when left to their own devices. And the kid would have listened instead of telling his mom because adults were seen as authority figures entitled to respect. Now we teach our children that every adult they don't know represents a possible threat (stranger danger), and adults have responded by not reprimanding or even addressing an unrelated child. I'm not saying whether this is better or worse, right or wrong, etc. Just that it is the way it is.

But when the "village" no longer has a role in socializing children, the entire burden falls on the parents, and some are just better at it than others. I feel sorry for kids whose parents teach them - through words or actions - that they are always right or, if not, that there is a good excuse for their behavior. I've seen first-hand that the adult world will swiftly and often cruelly disabuse them of that notion, and they are ill-prepared to deal with the results.

 

[Hiitsme]

What really blows my mind is leaving children unattended anywhere. Parents don't know who is there for nefarious reasons. Why in the world would you have the "older" child in charge of the younger ones. If anything happened that poor older child will live with the guilt forever. I see this everyday at my job. The park I work at runs a deal in the summer where you can play all day for under $40.00. Everyday parents drop the kids at the door and just drive away. It's cheaper than daycare, camp or a sitter. These kids are way under 16 and their behavior is so bad. They run around and break things. I don't know why these parents believe I'm being paid to watch their children when my boss is paying me to be a ride operator. If anything terrible happens to these children what are we to do?

 

[Gingerfun1]

Absolutely. I’m aware that I could have handled it better.

For what it’s worth, I did not raise my voice. My stern voice is actually quite quiet. It lets kids know that I am serious. Also, as far as bringing the problem to their attention, the woman was standing in the pile of dollar items on the floor. She witnessed the child grabbing and throwing things off of the shelves. I think she knew exactly what was going on but chose not to address it.

I'm sure you handled it just fine. I would have trouble not saying something in your position too. My comments are coming from a more general perspective of "if you see a kid misbehaving and an adult nearby then go to the adult first". And let's be honest, most adults need a stern talking to more than children

 

[StarSeven7]

I think the problem with the whole "it takes a village" concept is that people tend to use this only as an excuse to discipline other people's children - but not as a way to actually help out and encourage parents. It should go both ways. As a mom of 2 school age kids, I've seen this time and time again so it's not really a huge surprise that parents get upset when other people step in. My son was extremely difficult as a toddler (thank goodness he's outgrown most of it now at age 6!) and when we went out in public, it was sometimes horrible, with him misbehaving and throwing fits. It was extremely stressful as a parent and I was doing the best that I could to deal with it. I can count the number of times that someone offered to help or said encouraging words to me on one hand - and I remember every single time because I was so surprised that someone was kind to me that it brought tears to my eyes! But the number of dirty looks I got or people making comments to me was so many that I couldn't even keep count. So I feel like if you really truly believe that it's your duty to step in and confront kids when they're doing something wrong then you should also be there willing to help out or be encouraging when that's needed.

 

[Bryan Burmeister]

• From Merriam-Webster:
  • 2a: to give signs or warning of : PORTEND
    "the clouds threatened rain"
  • 3: to announce as intended or possible
    "the workers threatened a strike"

I also noticed you casually left out definition 2b. (even though you chose to cite both 2a and 3. Certainly this was a conscious effort on your part.) Presumably, because by the below definition in bold I could have retorted that the boys were the ones "threatening" my daughter with their dangerous behavior. That thought never occurred to me until I read your post, because again; when you get accused of threatening someone it's understood to be of the "Do this or I'll hurt you" variety. Not these benign alternate definitions. The former can be considered verbal abuse in many jurisdictions and as such is quite a serious accusation. "Workers threatening a strike" is a completely different thing and comparing the two is almost laughable.

2a: to give signs or warning of : "the clouds threatened rain"
b: to hang over dangerously : "famine threatens the city"

 

[Hopefully]

I also noticed you casually left out definition 2b. (even though you chose to cite both 2a and 3. Certainly this was a conscious effort on your part.) Presumably, because by the below definition in bold I could have retorted that the boys were the ones "threatening" my daughter with their dangerous behavior. That thought never occurred to me until I read your post, because again; when you get accused of threatening someone it's understood to be of the "Do this or I'll hurt you" variety. Not these benign alternate definitions. The former can be considered verbal abuse in many jurisdictions and as such is quite a serious accusation. "Workers threatening a strike" is a completely different thing and comparing the two is almost laughable.

2a: to give signs or warning of : "the clouds threatened rain"
b: to hang over dangerously : "famine threatens the city"

I have read every single post. I have kept my opinion to myself. I can no longer.
No one THREATENED your daughter. The boys were playing. If you felt your daughter was “ threatened “ by this,IMHO it was your responsibility To remove your 2 year old to safety. As you said in your first post, you were IMAGINING all kinds of potential harm (paraphrase, I did not reread it). Unfortunately from reading your recent posts I am not sure you will do anything differently in the future, even though you have said you would.

 

[Lilsia]

This thread is hilarious. If I misbehaved as a child to the extent that an adult was prompted to intervene and correct my behavior, the LAST PERSON on God’s green earth I would have told about it was my mother!

I was thinking the same thing. When we got in trouble at school, we would do anything for punishment and beg them not to tell our Mom.
I work in food and have worked with many young people throughout the years. The attitudes and behaviors of young people has tanked. You can tell within the first couple of days of working with some of them how they were raised. And the ones who's parent's treated them as if they could do no wrong, are the ones that struggled the most at their jobs. They are so used to be "right" and the ones decided what they can and can not do, they short circuit when they are told to do something that they don't want to do. They have no concept of authority because they think that they are the ones in charge. Parents really do not see the harm that they are doing in raising their kids this way. These children grow up not being able to function in society properly. All of the parents that get upset that someone else is disciplining your kid, ask yourself WHY they are doing so. What is your child doing that another adult feels like they need to step in and do your job for you. Most people don't go around and just randomly start yelling at kids for no good reason. Our job as parents is to raise productive members of society.

 

[Summer2018]

This thread is hilarious. If I misbehaved as a child to the extent that an adult was prompted to intervene and correct my behavior, the LAST PERSON on God’s green earth I would have told about it was my mother!

Truth.

 

[Lilsia]

I like to think I'm an observant parent but if someone spoke sternly to my child instead of to me when I'm right there, I would be pissed. I think a better approach would have been something along the lines "did you notice your little one is throwing stuff all over the floor? I almost tripped".

One has to wonder what was so much more important that your child was able to make a mess in a store without you noticing in this scenario? You getting angry at the other adult is putting the blame on them instead of yourself. It all comes down to paying attention to your kid.

 

[Lilsia]

I think the problem with the whole "it takes a village" concept is that people tend to use this only as an excuse to discipline other people's children - but not as a way to actually help out and encourage parents. It should go both ways. As a mom of 2 school age kids, I've seen this time and time again so it's not really a huge surprise that parents get upset when other people step in. My son was extremely difficult as a toddler (thank goodness he's outgrown most of it now at age 6!) and when we went out in public, it was sometimes horrible, with him misbehaving and throwing fits. It was extremely stressful as a parent and I was doing the best that I could to deal with it. I can count the number of times that someone offered to help or said encouraging words to me on one hand - and I remember every single time because I was so surprised that someone was kind to me that it brought tears to my eyes! But the number of dirty looks I got or people making comments to me was so many that I couldn't even keep count. So I feel like if you really truly believe that it's your duty to step in and confront kids when they're doing something wrong then you should also be there willing to help out or be encouraging when that's needed.

So what happened when another adult scolded your child? Did they listen and start to behave or did it make the behavior worse? I ask because you said that you did the best that you knew how, and I have seen how kids can manipulate their parents but instantly know when someone else means business and they listen to them. I think that parenting is hard and that many young parents now lack the skills needed to raise children. But, it is mostly because they choose not to take in any information. Back in "the day", young parents would go to the older generation for council and they would listen to them. Now, it seems that everyone seems to thing the older generation is too "old fashioned" and they don't want to hear it. Growing up, you rarely saw a kid having a temper tantrum in public. Parent's just did not allow that kind of behavior. Now, it is different. I have actually seen plenty of children like yours out and about being, as you say, difficult. I will admit that I have given them "the look" without saying a word and they immediately stop the bad behavior. The parents have no clue that I have done that and are surprised that the kid has stopped the bad behavior. Kids will do anything in their power to get what they want from their parents, even acting poorly if they know that they can get away with it.

 

[Summer2018]

One has to wonder what was so much more important that your child was able to make a mess in a store without you noticing in this scenario? You getting angry at the other adult is putting the blame on them instead of yourself. It all comes down to paying attention to your kid.

Exactly.

My DH works a second job at an Arena where there are concerts, hockey games, etc. It is his job to keep everyone safe, enforce the rules, deal with people's issues, and remove patrons from the premises if necessary. His biggest headache is dealing with unsupervised kids. Parents are watching the event, drinking, and having a great time while they ignore their kids. He has to deal with kids climbing over seats; breaking them; getting their leg caught in the seat; sliding down the railings and falling on the concrete beneath; throwing food at other patrons; banging on the glass, etc. When my DH has to approach kids who are not sitting with adults, he is very professional and follows protocol. He still gets parents who suddenly appear out of nowhere to get angry and say, "They’re just kids. Let them have fun." The hockey season ticket holders love my husband because he keeps everyone in line so that they can watch the games. The only ones to ever complain are the lazy parents who can't be bothered to teach their children how to behave appropriately. Parents need to take responsibility for their kids and supervise them in public places.

 

[StarSeven7]

So what happened when another adult scolded your child? Did they listen and start to behave or did it make the behavior worse? I ask because you said that you did the best that you knew how, and I have seen how kids can manipulate their parents but instantly know when someone else means business and they listen to them. I think that parenting is hard and that many young parents now lack the skills needed to raise children. But, it is mostly because they choose not to take in any information. Back in "the day", young parents would go to the older generation for council and they would listen to them. Now, it seems that everyone seems to thing the older generation is too "old fashioned" and they don't want to hear it. Growing up, you rarely saw a kid having a temper tantrum in public. Parent's just did not allow that kind of behavior. Now, it is different. I have actually seen plenty of children like yours out and about being, as you say, difficult. I will admit that I have given them "the look" without saying a word and they immediately stop the bad behavior. The parents have no clue that I have done that and are surprised that the kid has stopped the bad behavior. Kids will do anything in their power to get what they want from their parents, even acting poorly if they know that they can get away with it.

When another adult steps in, it usually makes the situation worse in my experience. I definitely don't think of older generations as being old fashioned and I ask for advice from my mom ALL the time. I parent pretty similar to my mom and my MIL. And for the record, I never "allowed" my child to have a temper tantrum. I would do everything possible to avoid the temper tantrum in the first place and deal with it accordingly when he did have a temper tantrum but this wasn't behavior that I accepted as okay. I just think it's way too easy as an outsider to step into the situation and think you know better than the parent does but often you know absolutely nothing about what is causing the behavior or the best way to deal with it for that particular child.

 

[marikujawa]

This thread is starting to contain a suspicious number of references to “cites” “jurisdictions” and a whole lot of quibbling over semantics. The dictionary definition of “threat” doesn’t matter. The OP was worried that his 2-year-old could be hurt by some older children who were rough-housing and not obeying pool rules. He had every right to be.

 

[Lilsia]

When another adult steps in, it usually makes the situation worse in my experience. I definitely don't think of older generations as being old fashioned and I ask for advice from my mom ALL the time. I parent pretty similar to my mom and my MIL. And for the record, I never "allowed" my child to have a temper tantrum. I would do everything possible to avoid the temper tantrum in the first place and deal with it accordingly when he did have a temper tantrum but this wasn't behavior that I accepted as okay. I just think it's way to easy as an outsider to step into the situation and think you know better than the parent does but often you know absolutely nothing about what is causing the behavior or the best way to deal with it for that particular child.

I agree and I never step in and say anything to someone who is obviously dealing with their kid. As I said, I have given a kid the look, but that does not harm them at all. I think most parents just give up and don't want to deal with their kids' bad behavior unfortunately. As for absentee parents, who allow their kids out of their eyesight, they have no cause to get mad at other adults that have to discipline their children because they are not doing their job.

 

[Gingerfun1]

One has to wonder what was so much more important that your child was able to make a mess in a store without you noticing in this scenario? You getting angry at the other adult is putting the blame on them instead of yourself. It all comes down to paying attention to your kid.

If an adult sees a problem, I would prefer they approach me first instead of my child. I think most parents would prefer that as well.

In that specific scenario, I'm sure the grandmother noticed but didn't want to deal with it. I would bet she was embarrassed at being called out. Still, I think approaching the adult is the best path forward. Obviously others disagree and that's ok too but if you're looking for how to interact with other families with least amount of drama, adults talking to adults is (IMO) the way to go.

 

[StarSeven7]

I agree and I never step in and say anything to someone who is obviously dealing with their kid. As I said, I have given a kid the look, but that does not harm them at all. I think most parents just give up and don't want to deal with their kids' bad behavior unfortunately. As for absentee parents, who allow their kids out of their eyesight, they have no cause to get mad at other adults that have to discipline their children because they are not doing their job.

I definitely agree that parents should be keeping an eye on their children and I always do that. And as a parent who is always dealing with her child, I thank you for not stepping in when you see a parent doing that because it's super frustrating and not helpful!

But my point was just that I think if we want this "it takes a village" mentality that it needs to go both ways - we need to be willing to help other parents and encourage them as well, not just discipline their kids. How often do we help an overwhelmed parent who is struggling to deal with their children? When we see well behaved children, how often do we go up to them and say "You're doing a great job here!" I just feel like people tend to have a negative outlook on others and have the mentality that parents are lazy and don't know what they're doing and the kids are horrible brats. That viewpoint just makes me sad.

 

[StarSeven7]

If an adult sees a problem, I would prefer they approach me first instead of my child. I think most parents would prefer that as well.

In that specific scenario, I'm sure the grandmother noticed but didn't want to deal with it. I would bet she was embarrassed at being called out. Still, I think approaching the adult is the best path forward. Obviously others disagree and that's ok too but if you're looking for how to interact with other families with least amount of drama, adults talking to adults is (IMO) the way to go.

Or a light-hearted joke goes a long way! Saying "Whoa! You've got a big mess to clean up there!" in a light-hearted joking manner calls attention to the mess but takes away the judgement that severe comments have.