Resort pool etiquette: other parents unsafe children

[Lilsia]

I definitely agree that parents should be keeping an eye on their children and I always do that. And as a parent who is always dealing with her child, I thank you for not stepping in when you see a parent doing that because it's super frustrating and not helpful!

But my point was just that I think if we want this "it takes a village" mentality that it needs to go both ways - we need to be willing to help other parents and encourage them as well, not just discipline their kids. How often do we help an overwhelmed parent who is struggling to deal with their children? When we see well behaved children, how often do we go up to them and say "You're doing a great job here!" I just feel like people tend to have a negative outlook on others and have the mentality that parents are lazy and don't know what they're doing and the kids are horrible brats. That viewpoint just makes me sad.

I know what you are saying. I understand that everyone has bad days. If I see that a parent is doing what they can and addressing the situation, then it is a non issue. The problems come in when the child is acting up, being disruptive, running around and getting in the way of others, general not proper behavior in public, and the parent is not paying attention and trying to correct the child. That is when others get annoyed at the parents. I guess the difference in mindsets between us is that I would never expect someone to praise me for doing the right thing(having well behaved children), as you said. This is a huge difference between the generations now. Good behavior was expected of you and you got punished for not doing the right thing. You don't get a reward for doing what you are supposed to. This way of thinking has not worked, it has not created better people, it has made people entitled and self centered and expecting of praise. Kids are not happier now that they get a reward for doing the right thing. Talk to anyone who deals with kids now, and they will say the same thing. Teachers are walking away from their jobs in record numbers because something is going seriously wrong with kids now. The shift in parenting is not for the better and the children are the ones that are paying for it. It is unbelievably sad and alarming what is happening in society now. And it is not because a stranger tells your kid to behave, it is because they have to.

 

[StarSeven7]

I know what you are saying. I understand that everyone has bad days. If I see that a parent is doing what they can and addressing the situation, then it is a non issue. The problems come in when the child is acting up, being disruptive, running around and getting in the way of others, general not proper behavior in public, and the parent is not paying attention and trying to correct the child. That is when others get annoyed at the parents. I guess the difference in mindsets between us is that I would never expect someone to praise me for doing the right thing(having well behaved children), as you said. This is a huge difference between the generations now. Good behavior was expected of you and you got punished for not doing the right thing. You don't get a reward for doing what you are supposed to. This way of thinking has not worked, it has not created better people, it has made people entitled and self centered and expecting of praise. Kids are not happier now that they get a reward for doing the right thing. Talk to anyone who deals with kids now, and they will say the same thing. Teachers are walking away from their jobs in record numbers because something is going seriously wrong with kids now. The shift in parenting is not for the better and the children are the ones that are paying for it. It is unbelievably sad and alarming what is happening in society now. And it is not because a stranger tells your kid to behave, it is because they have to.

I praise my kids all the time for good behavior. I don’t think that’s damaging them. Every teacher they’ve had has told me that they’re great kids and some of the best behaved kids in class. Clearly the way I’m parenting them has not made them degenerates. I absolutely think that it’s ok to parent kids differently - people are individuals and don’t fit in a mold.

 

[Lilsia]

I praise my kids all the time for good behavior. I don’t think that’s damaging them. Every teacher they’ve had has told me that they’re great kids and some of the best behaved kids in class. Clearly the way I’m parenting them has not made them degenerates. I absolutely think that it’s ok to parent kids differently - people are individuals and don’t fit in a mold.

There is a difference in getting praise for doing something well, and praising a child when they do what they are supposed to, instead of punishing bad behavior. Bad behavior should have consequences. You should not praise a child every time you go to the grocery store and they don't throw a tantrum. They should be doing that anyway. I did not say that a person should never get any kind of praise. But not to expect praise for acting as you should. And what happens when these overly praised kids grow up and get a job and don't have their boss "praising" them for doing their job right. I have seen that too. These kids are now constantly looking for validation instead of being self aware and sure of themselves that they are doing the right thing, without having someone tell them that they are. There are compromises. You can praise when warranted, but not have the child rely on needing a reward for them to behave.

 

[marikujawa]

My job entailed hiring and training young people in entry level, professional positions. These are young people who had to complete three years of education after college. Most were mature, responsible individuals, but there were more than a few who simply could not accept any form of correction or constructive criticism. One, when given the mildest form of criticism about her writing style, responded by saying that she had never "failed" at anything before. I agree that there is a difference between giving positive reinforcement for a job well done (i.e., "your research was exceptionally thorough") and what is expected ("nice job getting to work on time and staying off your cellphone").

 

[StarSeven7]

There is a difference in getting praise for doing something well, and praising a child when they do what they are supposed to, instead of punishing bad behavior. Bad behavior should have consequences. You should not praise a child every time you go to the grocery store and they don't throw a tantrum. They should be doing that anyway. I did not say that a person should never get any kind of praise. But not to expect praise for acting as you should. And what happens when these overly praised kids grow up and get a job and don't have their boss "praising" them for doing their job right. I have seen that too. These kids are now constantly looking for validation instead of being self aware and sure of themselves that they are doing the right thing, without having someone tell them that they are. There are compromises. You can praise when warranted, but not have the child rely on needing a reward for them to behave.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying but this discussion has strayed pretty far from my point so I think I'm going to refrain from commenting anymore so as not to clutter up this thread. Have a nice night!

 

[cobright]

I also noticed you casually left out definition 2b.

Alright. To be honest I wasn't really thinking about the lady in you OP asking if you were the one threatening her child. I was talking more about the several posts that categorized your action of 'ordering the children to leave with the ultimatum of getting a LG if they don't' as issuing the children threats or threatening them with this consequence; and also the lexic push back against using that word to describe your what you wrote.

I agree with you. In the sense that the woman in the OP used it, threaten was not appropriate. If you had written "She asked me why I had "threatened" to call the lifeguard on her son." she would have been absolutely correct.

Also impotent? Really?

I was describing your choice of action, not you. By your own description of events, your yelling at this woman's children had no effect. I mean, it wasn't even you that went and got the life guard. If we want to drag up dictionaries again, the first definition for impotent is usually along the lines of "unable to take effective action" or "powerless", which does describe your ability to make those kids leave the pool.

Look, I'm not trying to insult you as a person. I think what you did was wrong, and since you asked, I said so and why. To be fair, I agree with your frustrations with the behavior of these kids and their supposed responsible adult. I think you still feel in the right for yelling at this stranger's children and we'll have to disagree on that.

But I will say that generally, people who think like you, that all adults should have the authority to correct the behavior of all children, tend to change that view when they encounter adults with radically different views of what's right and wrong.

My father would have trusted any adult anywhere to have the same morals and values he did and would believe, as you do, that any adult should step in when they see his child misbehaving.

I don't trust people I've never met to make that kind of decision regarding my children.

 

[superdiz]

I've been here before when my kids were small. I was very overprotective and really got annoyed when older kids barreled through playplaces with no parental supervision and out of control behavior. I always got the life guard or the parent, but I didn't hesitate to say "Hey guys, there are little kids here, could we please be a little more careful?' I personally would not have been upset if someone came at my children like that, I've always been welcoming of anyone helping me discipline my kids in kind ways if they were getting crazy. Which happens with kids from time to time!

I think your mistake happened in demanding they leave and telling them what to do. You could have easily asked them to tone it down in a nice way, even if your voice was higher to get their attention. You do not own the splash park and while it's super cute to watch your toddler splash around and try new things, they are kids, too. In all honesty the splash parks at these resorts are more appropriate for school aged kids than the 2 and under set. All little kids get amped up at these places and someone is bound to run into her or at least near miss running into her. Use at your own risk!

 

[superdiz]

So we are abdicating the safety of our own children to a lifeguard who is likely a teenager or young adult?
Why?
Its your kids safety, if they were being that rowdy and uncontrolled they should have been told to cut it out by the parent AND life guard.....in that order and ONLY if a lifeguard was available.

Which clearly they were not. I could care less about offending an absent parent or their crazy kids......

I don't think the kids getting rambunctious qualifies an absent parent. Depending on the ages the mom may have taken a few minutes to take a dip herself. Also, where was Dad? It's never our place to discipline other people's children. I definitely agree to asking the kids to be careful with the little ones around and not block the slide please. I'd likely have also asked where Mom/Dad were and then perhaps have had a discussion with them just asking them to get the kids to not do those things. As a Mom, if someone approached me (or my kids) in that manner, I definitely would correct my kids and be ok with them asking the kids to calm down. But we cannot see everything!

However, if a stranger told my kids to get out of there or else, oh no, I'm coming in hot and I wish the stranger the best in surviving lol

 

[DrunkJam]

So what happened when another adult scolded your child? Did they listen and start to behave or did it make the behavior worse? I ask because you said that you did the best that you knew how, and I have seen how kids can manipulate their parents but instantly know when someone else means business and they listen to them. I think that parenting is hard and that many young parents now lack the skills needed to raise children. But, it is mostly because they choose not to take in any information. Back in "the day", young parents would go to the older generation for council and they would listen to them. Now, it seems that everyone seems to thing the older generation is too "old fashioned" and they don't want to hear it. Growing up, you rarely saw a kid having a temper tantrum in public. Parent's just did not allow that kind of behavior. Now, it is different. I have actually seen plenty of children like yours out and about being, as you say, difficult. I will admit that I have given them "the look" without saying a word and they immediately stop the bad behavior. The parents have no clue that I have done that and are surprised that the kid has stopped the bad behavior. Kids will do anything in their power to get what they want from their parents, even acting poorly if they know that they can get away with it.

Not sure if I am going to regret jumping in in a bit of an OT way here, but, I am still touchy about the "temper tantrum" references. My son is autistic. he's 13 now, and, unless you had a conversation with him about his interests, or something wildly stressful happened, you probably wouldn't notice on an average day out and about, but when he was younger, older than a toddler, and, as we got told in public, by strangers, on more than one occasion, too old for such behaviour, I would find myself sitting on the floor of the supermarket, bear hugging a SCREAMING 5 year old, so he would not flail and hurt himself. He wasn't tantrumming to get his own way, or to get anything, other than out of the situation. It was nothing to do with what I would allow, and everything to do with the fact that I had no idea how totally overwhelming the supermarket can be. And I had no strategies to help, because I didn't understand. You could have looked all you liked at my child and all that would happen is that I would feel horrible because you were annoyed enough to give us "the look" and I would still have to try and get groceries and get us home.
I definitely know that if someone else stops my child from behaving unsafely then I feel guilt and gratitude, so I do understand there is a difference between poor behaviour and meltdown, but, I do also feel a responsibility to him to point out, even though we are past the stage (we have strategies and plans now) that judging based on what parents will or will not allow, or on whether you believe adequate discipline is in place may be a really unhelpful, and detrimental course of action.

 

[superdiz]

Not sure if I am going to regret jumping in in a bit of an OT way here, but, I am still touchy about the "temper tantrum" references. My son is autistic. he's 13 now, and, unless you had a conversation with him about his interests, or something wildly stressful happened, you probably wouldn't notice on an average day out and about, but when he was younger, older than a toddler, and, as we got told in public, by strangers, on more than one occasion, too old for such behaviour, I would find myself sitting on the floor of the supermarket, bear hugging a SCREAMING 5 year old, so he would not flail and hurt himself. He wasn't tantrumming to get his own way, or to get anything, other than out of the situation. It was nothing to do with what I would allow, and everything to do with the fact that I had no idea how totally overwhelming the supermarket can be. And I had no strategies to help, because I didn't understand. You could have looked all you liked at my child and all that would happen is that I would feel horrible because you were annoyed enough to give us "the look" and I would still have to try and get groceries and get us home.
I definitely know that if someone else stops my child from behaving unsafely then I feel guilt and gratitude, so I do understand there is a difference between poor behaviour and meltdown, but, I do also feel a responsibility to him to point out, even though we are past the stage (we have strategies and plans now) that judging based on what parents will or will not allow, or on whether you believe adequate discipline is in place may be a really unhelpful, and detrimental course of action.

I think we could write several articles about how unhelpful strangers can be in these situations when you are doing your very best as a parent and they eye shame you. The guy on the plane when my son was 1 and crying "That kid's been crying since security! GREAT!" loudly as he passed. I still praise myself for my composure and ability to parent my baby vs go Boston on his ignorant behind!

In other words, I agree with you!! lol

 

[Lilsia]

Not sure if I am going to regret jumping in in a bit of an OT way here, but, I am still touchy about the "temper tantrum" references. My son is autistic. he's 13 now, and, unless you had a conversation with him about his interests, or something wildly stressful happened, you probably wouldn't notice on an average day out and about, but when he was younger, older than a toddler, and, as we got told in public, by strangers, on more than one occasion, too old for such behaviour, I would find myself sitting on the floor of the supermarket, bear hugging a SCREAMING 5 year old, so he would not flail and hurt himself. He wasn't tantrumming to get his own way, or to get anything, other than out of the situation. It was nothing to do with what I would allow, and everything to do with the fact that I had no idea how totally overwhelming the supermarket can be. And I had no strategies to help, because I didn't understand. You could have looked all you liked at my child and all that would happen is that I would feel horrible because you were annoyed enough to give us "the look" and I would still have to try and get groceries and get us home.
I definitely know that if someone else stops my child from behaving unsafely then I feel guilt and gratitude, so I do understand there is a difference between poor behaviour and meltdown, but, I do also feel a responsibility to him to point out, even though we are past the stage (we have strategies and plans now) that judging based on what parents will or will not allow, or on whether you believe adequate discipline is in place may be a really unhelpful, and detrimental course of action.

I am not saying that all tantrums can be stopped with a look. I am saying that there is a difference between a parent doing what needs to be done, either, as you say, sitting with them or taking them out, or whatever and a parent who does not give a crap and lets the kid go on and on while ignoring them. You can tell when a parent is engaged with their child and when they just don't give a crap.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I was describing your choice of action, not you. By your own description of events, your yelling at this woman's children had no effect.

1) He didn't yell, he stated
2) He absolutely actually was effective in that the boys left the area.

However, if a stranger told my kids to get out of there or else

OP did not "or else" anyone. He provided two choices: either [the boys] were done [horsing around] or OP would go get a lifeguard. Two very clear optins, not any ambiguous, "...or else."

 

[superdiz]

1) He didn't yell, he stated
2) He absolutely actually was effective in that the boys left the area.

OP did not "or else" anyone. He provided two choices: either [the boys] were done [horsing around] or OP would go get a lifeguard. Two very clear optins, not any ambiguous, "...or else."

sorry, didn’t see your reply until today.
OP said “Either your (you’re) done here or I’m going to have to get the lifeguard “

I interpret that as GTFOH. I think most people would. Had he said “Either you stop or I’m going to have to get the lifeguard” then that would have been perfectly acceptable and as a parent I’d have no qualms with that.
Tell my kid they are done here and I’ll tell you you don’t own “here” in no uncertain terms.

 

[Disneypro1]

Kids will be kids. Let them. Nothing worse than helicopter parents. Sometimes they rough house sometimes they’ll get bullied. That’s life. The earlier they learn to deal with stuff the better. Boys will be boys and girls will be girls. Always was always will be.

 

[Lilsia]

Kids will be kids. Let them. Nothing worse than helicopter parents. Sometimes they rough house sometimes they’ll get bullied. That’s life. The earlier they learn to deal with stuff the better. Boys will be boys and girls will be girls. Always was always will be.

While I understand your theory, in this situation, there were older boys roughhousing in a small children's play area. If this had been the main pool, the I would agree with you for the most part. But older kids have no business being in an area for toddlers. I do not like the excuse of "boys will be boys" when it comes to bad behavior. I think many parents allow bad behavior on that premise. If you would not allow your daughter to act in a certain way, then you should not allow your son to either. Bad behavior is bad behavior. Giving boys a pass on bad behavior is what leads them to grow up to keep acting in a bad way.

 

[Disneypro1]

While I understand your theory, in this situation, there were older boys roughhousing in a small children's play area. If this had been the main pool, the I would agree with you for the most part. But older kids have no business being in an area for toddlers. I do not like the excuse of "boys will be boys" when it comes to bad behavior. I think many parents allow bad behavior on that premise. If you would not allow your daughter to act in a certain way, then you should not allow your son to either. Bad behavior is bad behavior. Giving boys a pass on bad behavior is what leads them to grow up to keep acting in a bad way.

I also said girls will be girls. Kids have acted this way since the dark ages and before. It’s just not until say the 2000’s that a lot of people want society to do the parenting and “fix” normal child behaviors. No one is saying to allow kids to be law breaking wild ones. But at the same time. A lot of younger parents these days expect a bubble to surround their children from anything “dangerous”. I’m not that old. Lol I’m 48. When I was a kid. We bullied got bullied and we didn’t have parents making sure we ok 24 hours a day. We left after school and came home at dark. We survived. We flirted with girls and made fun of other kids and sometimes we got made fun of also. Life as it goes. They say.
We all survived. I just think a lot of people want kids to be something they are not. They are kids.

 

[Lilsia]

I also said girls will be girls. Kids have acted this way since the dark ages and before. It’s just not until say the 2000’s that a lot of people want society to do the parenting and “fix” normal child behaviors. No one is saying to allow kids to be law breaking wild ones. But at the same time. A lot of younger parents these days expect a bubble to surround their children from anything “dangerous”. I’m not that old. Lol I’m 48. When I was a kid. We bullied got bullied and we didn’t have parents making sure we ok 24 hours a day. We left after school and came home at dark. We survived. We flirted with girls and made fun of other kids and sometimes we got made fun of also. Life as it goes. They say.
We all survived. I just think a lot of people want kids to be something they are not. They are kids.

I am of an age with you and I know what you are saying. But even back then, if there were older boys roughhousing in the kiddie pool, some adult would have told them to get the heck out of there. And the parent would not have come back and raised a stink about it.

 

[MamaBelle4]

There is a lot of "Younger generations don't know how to parent! They're so lazy! They don't pay attention! They raise little insecure kids who can't take criticism."

Who raised those younger generations of parents, I wonder? Those perfect "in my day!" parents? Well, I suppose if the younger generations are such awful parents, those "in my day!" parents didn't do such a hot job now did they?

There is a portion of the population who have no business raising children. This percentage has not changed since 1950, or 1850, or 1750 or so on. Standards have changed. Recommendations by pediatricians have changed and the ease by which complete strangers can sit back and play Monday morning quarterback on your parenting has changed.

It still takes a village, but maybe parents now are more selective on who they let in their village, not complete strangers whom they've never met.

You all can believe whatever you want. Go ahead and accuse younger generations (*ahem* that YOU raised) of being terrible parents if it, in some way, makes you feel better. The fact remains that the newer generations are no worse at parenting than the older generations were. The goal posts were just moved and, because of the internet, there's a lot more spectators now. Peace.

 

[Lilsia]

There is a lot of "Younger generations don't know how to parent! They're so lazy! They don't pay attention! They raise little insecure kids who can't take criticism."

Who raised those younger generations of parents, I wonder? Those perfect "in my day!" parents? Well, I suppose if the younger generations are such awful parents, those "in my day!" parents didn't do such a hot job now did they?

There is a portion of the population who have no business raising children. This percentage has not changed since 1950, or 1850, or 1750 or so on. Standards have changed. Recommendations by pediatricians have changed and the ease by which complete strangers can sit back and play Monday morning quarterback on your parenting has changed.

It still takes a village, but maybe parents now are more selective on who they let in their village, not complete strangers whom they've never met.

You all can believe whatever you want. Go ahead and accuse younger generations (*ahem* that YOU raised) of being terrible parents if it, in some way, makes you feel better. The fact remains that the newer generations are no worse at parenting than the older generations were. The goal posts were just moved and, because of the internet, there's a lot more spectators now. Peace.

Of course, there have always been bad parents. But anyone can see that there has been a big shift in how children are raised now. Just the amount of parents that do what happened in this scenario, shows that. As I said, if an adult yelled at me, my parent would ask me what I did wrong, they would not have gone and confronted the other adults proclaiming my innocence. Especially since I, more then likely, did the offense. The general lack of discipline is very disheartening. It was when the "experts" came in. The whole "spare the rod, spoil the child" mentality has not done any favors for kids. It is a generation of parents that stopped listening to their elders and started listening to the Dr Spocks and other "experts" is when the shift started. I was shocked when my young children went to school and on one of the bathroom mirrors it said "you are special". No they are not. My kids, and all kids are just like everyone else. The over puffing up of egos, instead of letting kids develop a self worth, through work and accomplishments, and sense of purpose has messed them up.

 

[kaytieeldr]

It still takes a village, but maybe parents now are more selective on who they let in their village, not complete strangers whom they've never met.

That's not a village. It's a dictatorship.