S/O of Netflix Thread - Anyone watching Making a Murderer on Netflix?

I think what happened to Steven Avery with the rape conviction was horrible. With the murder, there is a lot of the investigation that I find questionable, particularly with Brendon Dassey. That said, I think there was a lot of bias and things that were omitted from the documentary and that the jury came back with the right verdict for Steven and that he is guilty. The defenses' job was to poke holes in the prosecution's case to create doubt and they did a great job but for me it came down to this:

What is known for sure:

Theresa Halbaugh was murdered.

Steven Avery was the last known person who saw her.

Regardless of where her car and the key was found, her DNA and Avery's blood and sweat DNA were found in the vehicle. The EDTA test, done by third party FBI, found that it wasn't the blood from the vial in the prior case. This is the same test that the defense wanted to have done, but couldn't locate a lab to perform but if they had and those results would've showed EDTA, you can be sure they would've used it and considered their test valid for his defense.

Given Brendan's coerced confession and different stories no one knows for sure exactly what happened before she died but we do know that she was shot (testimony regarding the bone fragments supported that). A bullet fragment or shell casing with Theresa's DNA was found in the garage. Forensics matched the fragment to the gun that Avery owned (not in the documentary, read that online). She was shot with his gun.

Her burned remains, (rivets from her jeans, camera and cell phone-not in movie, read online) were found in the burn pit on the Avery property.

Things not in the movies but that I read online. She'd been to the property before, he asked for her specifically. Made 3 calls to her that day, two of which using *67 to hide his number. He had recently purchased cuffs and leg shackles. Brendan eluded to, both in his interrogation with his investigator and in a phone conversation with his mother, having helped clean up blood in the garage. The mother mentioned in a statement that Brendan came home that night with bleach stains on his jeans.

For me, it's more likely that he did it and sadly brought his nephew into it. Sure he was suing the county for 36million, he wasn't guaranteed that settlement, it's only what he was asking for. I have more doubt that this was all a set up by police to avoid paying out a settlement. For me to go there, I need to believe the police killed her as well. I can't buy that it was just dumb luck a murder victim happened to turn up to support that the theory he was framed.

I don't remember it ever being mentioned if Avery had an alibi or people who saw him that day.

Just my opinion, I realize he didn't commit the first rape, but he did have a record, he was capable of torturing animals, he did have a history of anger toward women.....just because he didn't commit the first rape doesn't make him incapable of committing murder.
Obviously the police didn't kill her. You are overlooking a third much more likely scenreo. The real killer could have tried to frame Steven and the police weren't looking at anyone else so it was easy. Even another possibility is that police found the car and the bone fragments planted them. It just seems odd that Theresa's DNA was not found on her own key but Stevens was. Plus no blood or hair in the house or garage. And they had been through the house and garage more than a dozen times and then all of a sudden here's the key in plain sight and here's a bullet casing.
 
Obviously the police didn't kill her. You are overlooking a third much more likely scenreo. The real killer could have tried to frame Steven and the police weren't looking at anyone else so it was easy. Even another possibility is that police found the car and the bone fragments planted them. It just seems odd that Theresa's DNA was not found on her own key but Stevens was. Plus no blood or hair in the house or garage. And they had been through the house and garage more than a dozen times and then all of a sudden here's the key in plain sight and here's a bullet casing.
I'm not 100% sure the police weren't involved in her death.
 
I'm not 100% sure the police weren't involved in her death.
:sad2:Impossible to know because if Avery didn't do it, this crime is still unsolved. The scenario that's been accepted as to the confinement and murder in the bedroom is simply impossible to believe given the lack of evidence in that room. The condition of the remains make it impossible to determine what, if anything, might have happened except gunshot(s) to the head and incineration. That leaves countless possibilities for what may have actually taken place, where, when and who might have done it. But with no further investigation, the truth (if it differs from the theory the State posed) will never be known and if I was this dear girl's mother, that would haunt me.

God bless and keep Theresa and her loved ones.
 
Obviously the police didn't kill her. You are overlooking a third much more likely scenreo. The real killer could have tried to frame Steven and the police weren't looking at anyone else so it was easy. Even another possibility is that police found the car and the bone fragments planted them. It just seems odd that Theresa's DNA was not found on her own key but Stevens was. Plus no blood or hair in the house or garage. And they had been through the house and garage more than a dozen times and then all of a sudden here's the key in plain sight and here's a bullet casing.

I though about that too, I just don't think that's what happened. We don't even know for sure where she was murdered because Dassey's confession is so questionable. The only thing we do know for sure is that she was murdered, there's DNA tying Avery to that and the testing confirmed it wasn't likely that it came from the old vial.
 


I think what stands out the most for me is that the police didn't even attempt to look for other suspects. Once they found out that she had been at Avery's that day, that's where all their focus was.

Also, as far as testing the blood for EDTA. They had a forensic scientist testify that the test was not reliable. Just because it didn't detect EDTA, doesn't mean it wasn't from the vial.

I look at it like a pregnancy test. There's lot more likely chance to get a negative test when you are pregnant and an almost impossible chance to get a positive when you aren't pregnant.
 
Just because it didn't detect EDTA, doesn't mean it wasn't from the vial.
One of the defense lawyers talked about this testimony being a turn point in the trial, where he felt his side lose momentum for an acquittal.

On interesting analysis of this test discussed what bad-science the FBI test was. Simply testing for EDTA really doesn't tell you anything, unless you know what normally should happen to EDTA in the environmental conditions the blood sample was exposed to. It might be the case that all EDTA would evaporate away once exposed to air and cool temperatures.
 


I think what happened to Steven Avery with the rape conviction was horrible. With the murder, there is a lot of the investigation that I find questionable, particularly with Brendon Dassey. That said, I think there was a lot of bias and things that were omitted from the documentary and that the jury came back with the right verdict for Steven and that he is guilty. The defenses' job was to poke holes in the prosecution's case to create doubt and they did a great job but for me it came down to this:

What is known for sure:

Theresa Halbaugh was murdered.

Steven Avery was the last known person who saw her.

Regardless of where her car and the key was found, her DNA and Avery's blood and sweat DNA were found in the vehicle. The EDTA test, done by third party FBI, found that it wasn't the blood from the vial in the prior case. This is the same test that the defense wanted to have done, but couldn't locate a lab to perform but if they had and those results would've showed EDTA, you can be sure they would've used it and considered their test valid for his defense.

Given Brendan's coerced confession and different stories no one knows for sure exactly what happened before she died but we do know that she was shot (testimony regarding the bone fragments supported that). A bullet fragment or shell casing with Theresa's DNA was found in the garage. Forensics matched the fragment to the gun that Avery owned (not in the documentary, read that online). She was shot with his gun.

Her burned remains, (rivets from her jeans, camera and cell phone-not in movie, read online) were found in the burn pit on the Avery property.

Things not in the movies but that I read online. She'd been to the property before, he asked for her specifically. Made 3 calls to her that day, two of which using *67 to hide his number. He had recently purchased cuffs and leg shackles. Brendan eluded to, both in his interrogation with his investigator and in a phone conversation with his mother, having helped clean up blood in the garage. The mother mentioned in a statement that Brendan came home that night with bleach stains on his jeans.

For me, it's more likely that he did it and sadly brought his nephew into it. Sure he was suing the county for 36million, he wasn't guaranteed that settlement, it's only what he was asking for. I have more doubt that this was all a set up by police to avoid paying out a settlement. For me to go there, I need to believe the police killed her as well. I can't buy that it was just dumb luck a murder victim happened to turn up to support that the theory he was framed.

I don't remember it ever being mentioned if Avery had an alibi or people who saw him that day.

Just my opinion, I realize he didn't commit the first rape, but he did have a record, he was capable of torturing animals, he did have a history of anger toward women.....just because he didn't commit the first rape doesn't make him incapable of committing murder.

I keep reading the comment that "sweat DNA" from Steven was found on the latch hood. There is no such way to determine if DNA is from sweat. It's just DNA, so please stop saying it's sweat DNA. As I stated earlier, that DNA was probably planted through something belonging to Steven which was then transferred to the hood latch which is the most likely scenario given that the police didn't follow strict protocol after the vehicle was found. How do you explain that there were no prints or other DNA of Steven's on the vehicle except for the blood smear? If he was wearing gloves, there wouldn't be any blood or DNA found period. How did he open the latch without any DNA on the outside hood and no prints, yet there's DNA on the inside latch?? It was planted.

I might add that the way it was found in this junkyard in 10 MINUTES right near the entrance is very suspicious. No one else was given a camera by the police, but the police had this woman enter the junkyard (there are several entrances) at the one place where the vehicle was "hidden" AND gave her a camera just in she found something??? No one else was given a camera. That junkyard is MASSIVE in size, yet the police had two untrained women find the vehicle in 10 minutes. This was such a set up for the women to find that RAV quickly. The police spent 8 days searching the Avery home, but only had two untrained women to search that gigantic junkyard??

Also, you don't have to buy into the idea that the place killed Teresa to believe that Steven is guilty. The police didn't kill Theresa. They found the RAV and the evidence somewhere close to the property and planted that evidence because they wanted a conviction. They never looked at any other possible suspects -- rinse and repeat from the first case which shows they are capable of corruption. They suppressed evidence in the first rape trial and did the same thing with the murder.

I think that Bobby Dassey and the other guy that was his alibi did it. Their times don't match up with the bus driver's times and their only alibis are that they passed each other on the road going hunting. Bobby was very quick to throw his brother under the bus and was able to do it easily. Steven was a creep, but he didn't murder Teresa.
 
Steven's case has been taken on by the Midwest Innocence Project! Good news, I think!! I hope Dean and Jerry remain involved, too!

I finished watching the docu-series yesterday and am just flabbergasted!

I believe Kachinskey and O'Kelly should be in prison for what they did to Brendan!
 
I keep reading the comment that "sweat DNA" from Steven was found on the latch hood. There is no such way to determine if DNA is from sweat. It's just DNA, so please stop saying it's sweat DNA. As I stated earlier, that DNA was probably planted through something belonging to Steven which was then transferred to the hood latch which is the most likely scenario given that the police didn't follow strict protocol after the vehicle was found. How do you explain that there were no prints or other DNA of Steven's on the vehicle except for the blood smear? If he was wearing gloves, there wouldn't be any blood or DNA found period. How did he open the latch without any DNA on the outside hood and no prints, yet there's DNA on the inside latch?? It was planted.

I might add that the way it was found in this junkyard in 10 MINUTES right near the entrance is very suspicious. No one else was given a camera by the police, but the police had this woman enter the junkyard (there are several entrances) at the one place where the vehicle was "hidden" AND gave her a camera just in she found something??? No one else was given a camera. That junkyard is MASSIVE in size, yet the police had two untrained women find the vehicle in 10 minutes. This was such a set up for the women to find that RAV quickly. The police spent 8 days searching the Avery home, but only had two untrained women to search that gigantic junkyard??

Also, you don't have to buy into the idea that the place killed Teresa to believe that Steven is guilty. The police didn't kill Theresa. They found the RAV and the evidence somewhere close to the property and planted that evidence because they wanted a conviction. They never looked at any other possible suspects -- rinse and repeat from the first case which shows they are capable of corruption. They suppressed evidence in the first rape trial and did the same thing with the murder.

I think that Bobby Dassey and the other guy that was his alibi did it. Their times don't match up with the bus driver's times and their only alibis are that they passed each other on the road going hunting. Bobby was very quick to throw his brother under the bus and was able to do it easily. Steven was a creep, but he didn't murder Teresa.

I believe it was actually Teresa's roommate and another friend who sent her to the junkyard with the camera. I'm going from memory of what was said in the documentary. The roommate and the friend talked about how they figured out her password and listened to her voice mail messages. It seems odd if they were never suspects. I'm sure we don't know everything but we do know that when someone is murdered it is often someone in that persons life.
 
Any and every one of these points is enough to SCREAM reasonable doubt! And there's more!


mam.jpg
 
I think what happened to Steven Avery with the rape conviction was horrible. With the murder, there is a lot of the investigation that I find questionable, particularly with Brendon Dassey. That said, I think there was a lot of bias and things that were omitted from the documentary and that the jury came back with the right verdict for Steven and that he is guilty. The defenses' job was to poke holes in the prosecution's case to create doubt and they did a great job but for me it came down to this:

What is known for sure:

Theresa Halbaugh was murdered.

Steven Avery was the last known person who saw her.

Regardless of where her car and the key was found, her DNA and Avery's blood and sweat DNA were found in the vehicle. The EDTA test, done by third party FBI, found that it wasn't the blood from the vial in the prior case. This is the same test that the defense wanted to have done, but couldn't locate a lab to perform but if they had and those results would've showed EDTA, you can be sure they would've used it and considered their test valid for his defense.

Given Brendan's coerced confession and different stories no one knows for sure exactly what happened before she died but we do know that she was shot (testimony regarding the bone fragments supported that). A bullet fragment or shell casing with Theresa's DNA was found in the garage. Forensics matched the fragment to the gun that Avery owned (not in the documentary, read that online). She was shot with his gun.

Her burned remains, (rivets from her jeans, camera and cell phone-not in movie, read online) were found in the burn pit on the Avery property.

Things not in the movies but that I read online. She'd been to the property before, he asked for her specifically. Made 3 calls to her that day, two of which using *67 to hide his number. He had recently purchased cuffs and leg shackles. Brendan eluded to, both in his interrogation with his investigator and in a phone conversation with his mother, having helped clean up blood in the garage. The mother mentioned in a statement that Brendan came home that night with bleach stains on his jeans.

For me, it's more likely that he did it and sadly brought his nephew into it. Sure he was suing the county for 36million, he wasn't guaranteed that settlement, it's only what he was asking for. I have more doubt that this was all a set up by police to avoid paying out a settlement. For me to go there, I need to believe the police killed her as well. I can't buy that it was just dumb luck a murder victim happened to turn up to support that the theory he was framed.

I don't remember it ever being mentioned if Avery had an alibi or people who saw him that day.

Just my opinion, I realize he didn't commit the first rape, but he did have a record, he was capable of torturing animals, he did have a history of anger toward women.....just because he didn't commit the first rape doesn't make him incapable of committing murder.

Also:
"Kratz identified evidence that the documentary left out, including Avery burning his cat; Avery using a false name in his call to AutoTrader; Halbach's phone, camera and PDA being found in Avery's burn barrel; Avery telling another inmate of his intent to build a "torture chamber" when he was released and saying that the way to get rid of a body is to "burn it"..."heat destroys DNA"; the victim's bones in the fire pit being intertwined with tires thrown on the fire; Halbach's tooth and a rivet from her jeans found in the fire pit; three calls from Avery placed to Halbach's cell phone on October 31; Avery's DNA on the victim's hood latch; and a bullet found in the garage being fired by Avery's rifle.[25]



[25]Verhoeven, Beatrice (January 4, 2016). "‘Making a Murderer’ Prosecutor Emails Us 9 Reasons Steven Avery Is Guilty". The Wrap. Retrieved January 13, 2016.

 
Also:
"Kratz identified evidence that the documentary left out, including Avery burning his cat; Avery using a false name in his call to AutoTrader; Halbach's phone, camera and PDA being found in Avery's burn barrel; Avery telling another inmate of his intent to build a "torture chamber" when he was released and saying that the way to get rid of a body is to "burn it"..."heat destroys DNA"; the victim's bones in the fire pit being intertwined with tires thrown on the fire; Halbach's tooth and a rivet from her jeans found in the fire pit; three calls from Avery placed to Halbach's cell phone on October 31; Avery's DNA on the victim's hood latch; and a bullet found in the garage being fired by Avery's rifle.[25]



[25]Verhoeven, Beatrice (January 4, 2016). "‘Making a Murderer’ Prosecutor Emails Us 9 Reasons Steven Avery Is Guilty". The Wrap. Retrieved January 13, 2016.

Because Kratz is so honest and full of integrity. And to email The Wrap (a "Covering Hollywood" website), after the fact. Very professional! Why not participate in the documentary when asked?
 
Because Kratz is so honest and full of integrity. And to email The Wrap (a "Covering Hollywood" website), after the fact. Very professional! Why not participate in the documentary when asked?

Who he emailed has nothing to do with incriminating evidence. He said he wasn't contacted. The producers said he was. We don't known who the liar is.
All I'm saying is before making a decision, people shoulf research beyond a documentary.
 
Last edited:
I finally got a chance to binge-watch this over the weekend... Until now I have avoided all discussions about it, trying to avoid spoilers. My initial thoughts are based upon what I saw in the documentary.

In regards to Steven: He looked so pitiful, I felt really sorry for him, but I guess that is beside the point. There is no doubt in my mind that the local law enforcement really had it in for him. I guess we all know "THAT family" in any given town. You hear their last name and you just roll your eyes. I believe local law enforcement was perfectly capable of cutting corners, and doing things to embellish their case against him. They should have looked a lot harder at the ex-boyfriend and roommate.

If I was on the jury I would have had to vote to acquit. I don't know if he did it or not. It really did not look good for him. I believe his lawyers raised enough reasonable doubt that there would be no way I could convict him and still sleep at night.

I guess the teenager was even more heart-breaking. I just don't see how they could try him as an adult. I just don't see how he has the mental capacity to understand anything that was going on. He just seemed to be so easily manipulated, it was very sad. It seemed that he was so disconnected from reality that he was just not fit to stand trial as an adult. I just cannot figure out his involvement in this. If I was a judge I would have probably thrown him in a juvenile detention center until he was 21 and then turn him loose.

I guess this is why I am not a judge, I am too easy on people and I always try to think the best of them.

I did kind of assume that there is more to the story. I kind of figured that the documentary would give a pretty biased view so I wanted to research this more. In this short time I have been just browsing through some articles. From what I have seen so far there is A LOT more to this story (which I kind of suspected there would be).
 
Also:
"Kratz identified evidence that the documentary left out, including Avery burning his cat while disturbing not proof he murdered her, there are people who are cruel to animals who never committ murder; Avery using a false name in his call to AutoTrader creepy for sure, and a good reason he should have been a suspect, but does not trump no real dna evidence ; Halbach's phone, camera and PDA being found in Avery's burn barrel so much planted evidence in the case it is just as easy to plant that. Any evidence found in this case on his property should be thrown out because of the improper way the local PD acted; Avery telling another inmate of his intent to build a "torture chamber" when he was released and saying that the way to get rid of a body is to "burn it"..."heat destroys DNA" hahaha this one is funny, let's believe what some random inmate says about someone. This has no place in the case. Would we accept the testimony of an inmate who said he was a saint and vowed to never harm anyone ; the victim's bones in the fire pit being intertwined with tires thrown on the fire; Halbach's tooth and a rivet from her jeans found in the fire pitAll invalid as there is too much reason to believe evidence was planted/tampered with in this case and with the lack of her dna/blood anywhere on the property it is impossible it could have taken place the way the prosecution stated in the trial; three calls from Avery placed to Halbach's cell phone on October 31 she was coming to take pictures he kept calling her...weird but not evidence he murdered her; Avery's DNA on the victim's hood latchthe tech admits to not changing his gloves so not reliable as it could be transfer dna; and a bullet found in the garage being fired by Avery's rifle.ah yes, the bullet that magically appeared and was found by an officer who wasn't supposed to be there.[25]



[25]Verhoeven, Beatrice (January 4, 2016). "‘Making a Murderer’ Prosecutor Emails Us 9 Reasons Steven Avery Is Guilty". The Wrap. Retrieved January 13, 2016.

I'm not convinced Avery's innocent, but there was contaminated evidence used, very suspicious evidence found by an officer who had everything to gain if Avery was convicted and who shouldn't have been investigating the crime scene. None of that evidence should be admissible. Combine that with a tampered vile of his blood and no blood/dna of Teresa anywhere in the house or garage the two supposed crime scenes, so it is hard to know beyond a reasonable doubt that he was involved. If he did do it the PD only has to look in the mirror for the way they mishandled the investigationbas to who is to blame. Avery should not be in jail based on the information IMO. That does not mean I believe he is an upstanding member of society.
 

GET A DISNEY VACATION QUOTE

Dreams Unlimited Travel is committed to providing you with the very best vacation planning experience possible. Our Vacation Planners are experts and will share their honest advice to help you have a magical vacation.

Let us help you with your next Disney Vacation!






Top