Second class members (resale)

How do people know you're DVC resale or direct - because you do not get the 20% discount on groceries? The resort doesn't discriminate in any way - does it?
 
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How do people know your DVC resale or direct - because you do not get the 20% discount on groceries? The resort doesn't discriminate in any way - does it?

That's kind of the question. Historically, no.

But the current DVC execs don't care about history.
 
1) Disney wants to make direct sales more appealing (at least superficially).

2) Disney has a lot of money but they don't actually have THAT much money (at least, to devote to holding timeshare inventory that may take months or longer to resell). Somebody has to pay the annual dues to run the resorts.

3) Industry Standard for timeshares is for the developer to damage resale value until contracts sell for pennies on the dollar. You can buy some timeshares for a dollar on ebay that still cost thousands direct. Suckers will still walk by the kiosks at wdw without checking online to learn how Disney treats current owners. If they drive resale prices down considerably, that just means cheaper ROFR options when they want it.

Thanks for the reply.

I suspect it's more #3 driving it. They must be trying to move more towards a standard timeshare model but why oh why would you take a premium product and devalue it like that?

Their restrictions worked as Disney planned, on us. The L14 restriction on resales helped push us to buy direct since we really like to try different (and new) resorts each trip. We also looked at the cost based on the deed end dates and, when you look at it that way, it just wasn't enough difference for us to consider a resale with a shorter length vs. Riviera with builder incentives and a full 50 years. I know everyone says things change and you shouldn't count on having it for the full 50 years but we put our adult children on the deeds so they can easily be handed off to one or all of them when we are "gone" or before.
 


Thanks for the reply.

I suspect it's more #3 driving it. They must be trying to move more towards a standard timeshare model but why oh why would you take a premium product and devalue it like that?

Their restrictions worked as Disney planned, on us. The L14 restriction on resales helped push us to buy direct since we really like to try different (and new) resorts each trip. We also looked at the cost based on the deed end dates and, when you look at it that way, it just wasn't enough difference for us to consider a resale with a shorter length vs. Riviera with builder incentives and a full 50 years. I know everyone says things change and you shouldn't count on having it for the full 50 years but we put our adult children on the deeds so they can easily be handed off to one or all of them when we are "gone" or before.

Actually, it may be something that I am now considering so my children can have the direct benefits. I already have them, so it’s not big deal,

But, after learning more about RIV, my adult children’s interest in it and more importantly, the expiration date being 2070, I am thinking about selling a contract I own with 2042, and rebuying a direct contract with their names as co-owners, If I do an even to even swap in number of points, it will cost about $11,000 more.

But, the kids will now be members, and those 150 points will have another 28 years on them. Because they seem to like the resort, the resale seems less important because I have so many others I could sell first.

So many decisions!
 
How do people know you're DVC resale or direct - because you do not get the 20% discount on groceries? The resort doesn't discriminate in any way - does it?

The resort won't discriminate! "Real" members get a blue card while resale members get a white one. If you were to stay on a cash reservation you wouldn't be able to use a DVC member rate (assuming one is available), but other than that the resort experience is no different!
 
Actually, it may be something that I am now considering so my children can have the direct benefits. I already have them, so it’s not big deal,

But, after learning more about RIV, my adult children’s interest in it and more importantly, the expiration date being 2070, I am thinking about selling a contract I own with 2042, and rebuying a direct contract with their names as co-owners, If I do an even to even swap in number of points, it will cost about $11,000 more.

But, the kids will now be members, and those 150 points will have another 28 years on them. Because they seem to like the resort, the resale seems less important because I have so many others I could sell first.

So many decisions!

Decisions Indeed!

At least when your looking at the full 50 years, the annual dollars do get pretty darn small, making the decision a bit easier.
 


Decisions Indeed!

At least when your looking at the full 50 years, the annual dollars do get pretty darn small, making the decision a bit easier.

Excellent point! See..that is what I am thinking since my kids want to be members. My one DD is a CM for Disney in NYC, so we get a slight discount too. She doesn’t need to own yet cause she has great perks..like free..but my other two do not and once owners, they will. Of course, they all have access to all my points!, lol

Since what I might sell is selling for a lot more right now then what I bought it far, it’s making it hard not to do it. Could basically be getting my net cost down close to a really good number.
 
Excellent point! See..that is what I am thinking since my kids want to be members. My one DD is a CM for Disney in NYC, so we get a slight discount too. She doesn’t need to own yet cause she has great perks..like free..but my other two do not and once owners, they will. Of course, they all have access to all my points!, lol

Since what I might sell is selling for a lot more right now then what I bought it far, it’s making it hard not to do it. Could basically be getting my net cost down close to a really good number.

Of course that will leave the new contract as a separate membership. You could also do the same by adding them to one of your existing deeds that already has perks. Often the downside to that is it is a different membership but you'd have that either way. And no $11,000 cost.
 
It always amuses me when resale buyers complain about feeling like second class members because they aren't getting discounts and can't attend some special events. Disney clearly spells out what perks resale members get, and what direct members get. If the perks matter to you, you buy direct. Plain and simple.

Ultimately, the only thing any of us is truly entitled to is a room with our points whether we are a direct or resale member. Perks come and go. Sometimes they offer more. Sometimes they offer less. The perks could be added or removed at any time. But we all get what we paid for--the ability to book a room.
 
Of course that will leave the new contract as a separate membership. You could also do the same by adding them to one of your existing deeds that already has perks. Often the downside to that is it is a different membership but you'd have that either way. And no $11,000 cost.

Another great point and not one I even thought of! So the real questions then become is that approximately 11K worth owning something with 28 extra years and how much do my kids really want RIV.

Kids are DS 30, DD 26 and DD 23...hmmm..💁🏻
 
The extras are nothing to do with the Time Share rights you are buying. Owners at the same home resort are treated equally when it comes to booking the resort they own.
The extra benefits are a thank you from Disney to customers who bought from them and can be stopped at anytime. When you buy resale you should know what your buying and if you don’t like it buy direct or don’t buy.
I actually agree that the Membership Extras are bonuses and no reason they should be extended to resale owners (other than maybe goodwill and promoting another Disney division, but nothing to complain about).

The new Riviera booking restriction actually does affect the ownership rights you are buying though. Before this restriction, owners could reasonably expect to sell their ownership interests and all rights to use that ownership, ie booking home resorts and other DVC resorts, would transfer along with the sale. Now DVC is saying you can sell your ownership interest, but not all the rights to use it (which then, what exactly do you own?). Moreover, in Riviera's Membership Agreement, DVD reserved the right to change the reservation system for select members, so who knows what rights you are buying anymore.

Rereading that, I realized my "you" turned into "resale owners" - as in, who knows what rights resale owners are buying anymore - but I think that just highlights the second class feeling in a more real way than discounts and special events. More like 3 classes I guess - direct and grandfathered owners, new L14 resale owners (whose Membership Agreements don't have those terms), and RIV resale owners. I just don't like the way this is headed.
 
Not to veer too far off topic, but is there anything that says Disney is legally required to allow the conveyance of perks associated with my direct contract to my kids? Or is this being done as a courtesy, not unlike pre-2011 resale?
 
Not to veer too far off topic, but is there anything that says Disney is legally required to allow the conveyance of perks associated with my direct contract to my kids? Or is this being done as a courtesy, not unlike pre-2011 resale?
It's a courtesy, similar to the ROFR waiver they currently give to gratuitous transfers.
 
It's a courtesy, similar to the ROFR waiver they currently give to gratuitous transfers.
Actually the waiver for gratuitous transfers is required by the POS for transfers to immediate family (parents, spouse, and children), trustees of a trust, and a few others dictated. In fact the POS implies in these cases the waiver isn’t even required because it says the provisions of Right of First Refusal don’t apply in these cases.
 
Actually the waiver for gratuitous transfers is required by the POS for transfers to immediate family (parents, spouse, and children), trustees of a trust, and a few others dictated. In fact the POS implies in these cases the waiver isn’t even required because it says the provisions of Right of First Refusal don’t apply in these cases.
Interesting. I was unable to find it in my POS (but that is from a 1999 purchase of BWV).
 
Interesting. I was unable to find it in my POS (but that is from a 1999 purchase of BWV).
I stand corrected, I had assumed it was in all since it was in CCV. They didn't clarify that ROFR didn't apply in the manner I stated until Poly. So I suspect since they added into Poly, CCV, and DRR they fully intend on honoring that. I doubt they would ever stop gratuitous transfers through they could stop the benefits from transferring. What's interesting is the last 3 resorts seem to suggest a waiver isn't needed period at all as the entire process is not required (per the language).
 
Actually, it may be something that I am now considering so my children can have the direct benefits. I already have them, so it’s not big deal,

But, after learning more about RIV, my adult children’s interest in it and more importantly, the expiration date being 2070, I am thinking about selling a contract I own with 2042, and rebuying a direct contract with their names as co-owners, If I do an even to even swap in number of points, it will cost about $11,000 more.

But, the kids will now be members, and those 150 points will have another 28 years on them. Because they seem to like the resort, the resale seems less important because I have so many others I could sell first.

So many decisions!
Make sure you check with a financial advisor before putting the kids on the deed. There may be tax implications for you and them and other not so nice possibilities down the road. I'm not a financial advisor or attorney - your post just raised "red" flags as a DVC mom. Our adult son is an "associate member" and he will inherit DVC if we go (I'm still hoping technology may "fix" that issue LOL). As we age we may gift it to him but he gets it either way.
 
Make sure you check with a financial advisor before putting the kids on the deed. There may be tax implications for you and them and other not so nice possibilities down the road. I'm not a financial advisor or attorney - your post just raised "red" flags as a DVC mom. Our adult son is an "associate member" and he will inherit DVC if we go (I'm still hoping technology may "fix" that issue LOL). As we age we may gift it to him but he gets it either way.

Thanks! We are comfortable at this point buying a contract and having them as co-owners. But, it is good advice for sure!
 

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