Sensors on ECVs

[Takket]

Loved one recently went to WDW and at MK they were rolling out ECVs with new sensors designed to detect objects in close proximity. It was a DISASTER.

She could barely move in a crowd (which is everywhere) because the ECV kept detecting persons nearby and stopping. When it stopped it took several seconds for the "alert" to release and allow her to move again.

Going through the ride queues was even worse. Every guide pole registered as an object and potential collision and caused the ECV to stop. It took her forever to get through the Laugh Floor queue with angry guests trapped behind her. It was frustrating and embarrassing for her.

She took the ECV back up front and managed to get one without a sensor despite the CMs claiming the system was tested and they did not have issues. Made her sign a waiver to drive a sensorless ECV but warned her ALL the ECVs would have sensors soon. The CM took the one she had been using and drove it around main street and passed her on the way back into the park and said he thought there was "something up" with the one she had.

She wrote a letter and was told the ECVs are supposed to "slow down" but the one she had stopped and refused to move. One time she had to pull the key out and put it back in to restart.

Not sure if that was a fluke or not but an ECV that stops or even slows down without input from the driver can be dangerous. Imagine walking out of the park at the end of the night in close quarters and suddenly just STOPPING for no reason. You are probably going to get run over by the person behind you who is not expecting it and/or not paying attention. If someone fell over an ECV it could mean injury for the ECV driver and the other guest.

Wondering if anyone else has had any experience with this.

It is only in MK now but supposed to eventually spread to all parks.

 

[MinnieMSue]

Huh. That is interesting. Wonder if it from a lawsuit where someone was hit by an ecv and sued. Only suit I know of I thought it was a ecv from another company. Anyway interesting. That seems like an awful experience being in that ecv. Glad she switched it out for a sensorless one.

 

[UncleMike101]

Sounds like a giant pain to me.
I wouldn't use one.............

 

[Simba's Mom]

Yes, it does sound more problematic than helpful, especially since, when there are crowds (like always) there are always people close by.

 

[Hoodie]

Huh. That is interesting. Wonder if it from a lawsuit where someone was hit by an ecv and sued. Only suit I know of I thought it was a ecv from another company. Anyway interesting. That seems like an awful experience being in that ecv. Glad she switched it out for a sensorless one.

There have been a few lately where the person who was hit also sued Disney, even thought the ECV was a rental (bigger pockets). My guess is Disney is trying to get ahead of the game by rolling these out. That way they can put full liability on the operator who ignored the built-in sensors.

 

[cmwade77]

Honestly, this sounds very dangerous. I could see maybe vibrating the handlebars if someone is too close, that way it doesn't annoy people nearby, but gives some feedback to the driver, which could be useful. But automatically slowing down or stopping is downright dangerous, as there are a lot of other factors that could be at play making doing so more dangerous.

Yet another reason to rent from offsite companies and not Disney.

 

[Simba's Mom]

Some cars have a light on the side that lights up (just the driver can see it) when another car passes. That would be OK for me.

 

[cmwade77]

Some cars have a light on the side that lights up (just the driver can see it) when another car passes. That would be OK for me.

I considered that when I posted, but thought better of it because there may be instances where the light would be unwanted, i.e. in a dark queue where it could ruin the atmosphere and/or be dangerous because it is a bright light in the driver's face in somewhere that is otherwise fairly dark and even a headlight couldn't adequately compensate for that. If it made a sound, that could also be unwanted, so a vibration made the most sense to me.

 

[Carnator]

My parents had some issues in the MK with the ECV. Took them 30 minutes to get from Tomorrowland to Fantasyland. It kept stopping and when it moved it was very very slow. They finally found a cast member who called the rental area. They told him that the sensor was dirty and told him how to clean it. Parents said it worked better after this. This just happened this past week.

 

[cmwade77]

My parents had some issues in the MK with the ECV. Took them 30 minutes to get from Tomorrowland to Fantasyland. It kept stopping and when it moved it was very very slow. They finally found a cast member who called the rental area. They told him that the sensor was dirty and told him how to clean it. Parents said it worked better after this. This just happened this past week.

Wow, that is really, really bad. Definitely not renting from Disney.

 

[Euby]

The only good that I can see coming from this is kids NOT wanting to go "joy riding" on their grandparents (or other adults) Disney rental anymore. Personally, I'll keep renting from off-site.

 

[cobright]

Loved one recently went to WDW and at MK they were rolling out ECVs with new sensors designed to detect objects in close proximity. It was a DISASTER.

She could barely move in a crowd (which is everywhere) because the ECV kept detecting persons nearby and stopping. When it stopped it took several seconds for the "alert" to release and allow her to move again.

This is disheartening. It's what happens when someone making a decision does the bare minimum. I'm currently developing an obstacle collision avoidance system for powered mobility tech, and a much better job can be done than this. More than that, it can be done relatively cheap.

The system you describe has a handful of IR proximity sensors that, when triggered, turn off the power signal to the motor. Literally $5.00 worth of parts but they probably paid a developer $50-100 per unit for it. But all it does is decide to cut the power when something is too close.

If I wanted to build a simple cost effective system It would involve 2 tiny microwave doppler radar units (at $8.oo ea) and a $2.00 stm32 micro controller. This would let it scan the area ahead of the ECV and detect the relative speeds of things in its path. Then adjust speed to slow down gradually as you overtake the obstacle then match speed with it.

The pilot of the ECV/chair must always have discretion to override the sensors. Just like an able bodied human, if the situation calls for it, can run through a crowd. Any number of catastrophic situations might litter the ground with immobile obstacles. Removing a mobility challenged person's ability to push through them is unconscionable. It violates one of the 3 laws of robotics.

It bugs me because the technology exists that would make powered mobility devices much safer and much more useful. We put this tech in $1000 quadcopter toys to make them easier to control, crash resistant, or partially autonomous; but there are really few advancements in mobility tech by comparison.

 

[UncleMike101]

This is disheartening. It's what happens when someone making a decision does the bare minimum. I'm currently developing an obstacle collision avoidance system for powered mobility tech, and a much better job can be done than this. More than that, it can be done relatively cheap.

The system you describe has a handful of IR proximity sensors that, when triggered, turn off the power signal to the motor. Literally $5.00 worth of parts but they probably paid a developer $50-100 per unit for it. But all it does is decide to cut the power when something is too close.

If I wanted to build a simple cost effective system It would involve 2 tiny microwave doppler radar units (at $8.oo ea) and a $2.00 esp32 micro controller. This would let it scan the area ahead of the ECV and detect the relative speeds of things in its path. Then adjust speed to slow down gradually as you overtake the obstacle then match speed with it.

The pilot of the ECV/chair must always have discretion to override the sensors. Just like an able bodied human, if the situation calls for it, can run through a crowd. Any number of catastrophic situations might litter the ground with immobile obstacles. Removing a mobility challenged person's ability to push through them is unconscionable. It violates one of the 3 laws of robotics.

It bugs me because the technology exists that would make powered mobility devices much safer and much more useful. We put this tech in $1000 quadcopter toys to make them easier to control, crash resistant, or partially autonomous; but there are really few advancements in mobility tech by comparison.

This is a shining example of those who make the decisions NEVER have to live with the consequences.

 

[cmwade77]

This is disheartening. It's what happens when someone making a decision does the bare minimum. I'm currently developing an obstacle collision avoidance system for powered mobility tech, and a much better job can be done than this. More than that, it can be done relatively cheap.

The system you describe has a handful of IR proximity sensors that, when triggered, turn off the power signal to the motor. Literally $5.00 worth of parts but they probably paid a developer $50-100 per unit for it. But all it does is decide to cut the power when something is too close.

If I wanted to build a simple cost effective system It would involve 2 tiny microwave doppler radar units (at $8.oo ea) and a $2.00 esp32 micro controller. This would let it scan the area ahead of the ECV and detect the relative speeds of things in its path. Then adjust speed to slow down gradually as you overtake the obstacle then match speed with it.

The pilot of the ECV/chair must always have discretion to override the sensors. Just like an able bodied human, if the situation calls for it, can run through a crowd. Any number of catastrophic situations might litter the ground with immobile obstacles. Removing a mobility challenged person's ability to push through them is unconscionable. It violates one of the 3 laws of robotics.

It bugs me because the technology exists that would make powered mobility devices much safer and much more useful. We put this tech in $1000 quadcopter toys to make them easier to control, crash resistant, or partially autonomous; but there are really few advancements in mobility tech by comparison.

Yep, either that or Disney wants to discourage people from renting from them, then they can say:
Hey, we offered a "safer solution," but the driver chose to rent from offsite which we have no control over and therefore no liability for.

 

[Lilsia]

I think some kind of collision avoidance is a good thing, as long as it works right. I happened to be standing and waiting for the parade next to a family with a small child in a stroller. A lady on an ECV rammed right into the back of the stroller and did not stop. It is like she panicked and did not remember how to stop the ECV. I thought the dad was going to punch her. The worst part about it was how she had zero care for the child and kept fanning herself and saying "oh, that was so scary for me". I am sure that this is not the only time that an ECV has hit someone. Again, they need to work properly.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

I think some kind of collision avoidance is a good thing, as long as it works right. I happened to be standing and waiting for the parade next to a family with a small child in a stroller. A lady on an ECV rammed right into the back of the stroller and did not stop. It is like she panicked and did not remember how to stop the ECV. I thought the dad was going to punch her. The worst part about it was how she had zero care for the child and kept fanning herself and saying "oh, that was so scary for me". I am sure that this is not the only time that an ECV has hit someone. Again, they need to work properly.

all the ECVs I have used there was no stopping to remember you just took your finger off the control and it stopped. there is no brake as such to remember to use. I did have one rental that was breaking down and would not slow down as it was supposed to do.company replaced it when made aware

 

[Lilsia]

all the ECVs I have used there was no stopping to remember you just took your finger off the control and it stopped. there is no brake as such to remember to use. I did have one rental that was breaking down and would not slow down as it was supposed to do.company replaced it when made aware

I know that, but this woman forgot to let go of the control and kept going. The dad had to smack her hand away from the control. This was obvious user error. Not everyone has the mental ability to think in stressful situations.

 

[UncleMike101]

I know that, but this woman forgot to let go of the control and kept going. The dad had to smack her hand away from the control. This was obvious user error. Not everyone has the mental ability to think in stressful situations.

True....
And I've seen people piloting ECV's that have NO business driving anything that can cause injury to others.
An ECV is just a small, single person, electric car, and must be operated with the same due caution as a roadworthy car.

 

[cmwade77]

True....
And I've seen people piloting ECV's that have NO business driving anything that can cause injury to others.
An ECV is just a small, single person, electric car, and must be operated with the same due caution as a roadworthy car.

Actually, I would slightly disagree here, it should be operated with even more caution than a roadworthy car because it isn't very often that you drive your car through an area with that many pedestrians going every direction. Now granted, the pedestrians have some responsibility for their own safety as well, but really caution is needed when driving an ECV.

 

[Claudia1]

I know that ECVs are a hot topic and I don’t want to get into the uses and (sometimes presumed) misuses of them. For health reasons, I sometimes need one on a trip. I used one in the MK today and they have added sensors on the front to decrease the speed when something is 4-6ft away.

As you can imagine, the ECV was constantly slowing down out of my control. It is designed to drop immediately to the minimum speed and it caused a whiplash effect every time. Not only is it extremely uncomfortable but I think it is more dangerous to other guests. I can’t tell you how many guests walking behind me ran into me or got mad at me for “stopping”. However, I didn’t stop. The speed changes radically and in odd places, too. Sometimes the EVC picked up the side of a bridge or nearby wall and dropped speed. It also has a very slow rebound when returning to regular speed.

Now before anyone complains that the ECVs are too fast, I can tell you the the top speed of a WDW ECV is less then 1/3 of a scooter rented from off-site. DH also needs an ECV at times and he used one from Buena Vista while I used the WDW one. His slowest speed was almost as fast as the top WDW speed. So when the WDW ECV drops to its lowest speed, it’s nearly makes a dead stop.

When I returned it, there were other guests in Lawrence he doing the same and they all had negative things to say. The CM said that they see this first hand when they have to take an ECV to a guest in the park and they hate it. We all shared our thoughts and everyone in the conversation thought they are more dangerous this way. There can be quite the dominoe effect in the back when they suddenly drop speed and the driver has no control on how fast they can return to normal speed. The CM shared that every park will will have their ECVs altered soon.

Has anyone else had any experience with these?