Social Distancing in the lazy river?

[Sepo]

I am heartened a bit by Japan and somewhat by S Korea. Mask wearing is consistent and prevalent at both locations despite social distancing being difficult. Once they controlled it they’ve had little bumps but - apparently- nothing drastic. It’s not a bad model to look at.

 

[Halloweenqueen]

We were scheduled to leave March 12 and were literally at the airport when we cancelled. We rescheduled for August, thinking that was a safe bet. Cancelled when the quarantine was extended to July 31st, didn’t want to be guinea pigs if it was lifted. We usually split our time with the North Shore, which is our absolute favorite, but Airbnbs are banned now. Thinking of taking advantage of the offer for late October. There is a confirm reservation on David’s rental in December though with greater odds of Hawaii being open. We might go for October as there is no risk to cancel. Coming back to the thread question: no lazy river, no trip for us. I think they could make it safe.

 

[hetzeltj]

We were scheduled to leave March 12 and were literally at the airport when we cancelled. We rescheduled for August, thinking that was a safe bet. Cancelled when the quarantine was extended to July 31st, didn’t want to be guinea pigs if it was lifted. We usually split our time with the North Shore, which is our absolute favorite, but Airbnbs are banned now. Thinking of taking advantage of the offer for late October. There is a confirm reservation on David’s rental in December though with greater odds of Hawaii being open. We might go for October as there is no risk to cancel. Coming back to the thread question: no lazy river, no trip for us. I think they could make it safe.

Following the Dis new on twitter looks like most pool activities are open at resorts. I was at HHI for the reopening and there were no issues at the pools. Slide was up and running. They closed it every so often to wipe down the hand rails.

 

[corgi_monster]

I am heartened a bit by Japan and somewhat by S Korea. Mask wearing is consistent and prevalent at both locations despite social distancing being difficult. Once they controlled it they’ve had little bumps but - apparently- nothing drastic. It’s not a bad model to look at.

Even in pre-pandemic Japan, being obviously sick and not wearing a mask is a HUGE faux pas. It would be the equivalent of an American who blows his nose into his own hand and then wipes the snot on a restaurant table.

Culturally, Japanese and Koreans value the group above the individual. If they believe wearing a mask will keep family members, co-workers, and even complete strangers safe, they will do it no matter how uncomfortable it is. I'm not as familiar with Korean culture, but I can say that Japanese people tend to be rule-followers. If the law says you need to wear a mask, most Japanese will wear one.

 

[Sydnerella]

I am heartened a bit by Japan and somewhat by S Korea. Mask wearing is consistent and prevalent at both locations despite social distancing being difficult. Once they controlled it they’ve had little bumps but - apparently- nothing drastic. It’s not a bad model to look at.

Wonder what it would be like to live in a country where doing ones part for public health wasn’t politicized. It’s not drastic.

 

[cgattis]

Wonder what it would be like to live in a country where doing ones part for public health wasn’t politicized. It’s not drastic.

I don’t dislike wearing a mask for any political reason. And if the government mandates any healthcare measure, I follow the mandate (vaccinations, whatever). But as a scientist, I can quite clearly understand that the masks we, the general population, are being told to wear do NOT filter out virus-size particles. They only stop large particles, such as saliva, which can also carry virus particles. The claims that masks are having a dramatic effect are, in my technical opinion, grossly overstated. I’m sure they help some, but I believe other factors (maybe immunities, maybe the virus not living as long in the air due to summer temps/humidity, IDK what else) are helping too. There is not yet enough data to know, so we’re falling back on wearing masks. The CDC clearly states they “may” help; they’re NOT making the sweeping statements that the media makes WRT usefulness. So again, when I don’t wear a mask in this heat (except where required), it’s because I weigh the potential value against the actual discomfort (allergies make it hard enough to breathe at this time of year) and make a physical, not a political, choice.

 

[Sepo]

I don’t dislike wearing a mask for any political reason. And if the government mandates any healthcare measure, I follow the mandate (vaccinations, whatever). But as a scientist, I can quite clearly understand that the masks we, the general population, are being told to wear do NOT filter out virus-size particles. They only stop large particles, such as saliva, which can also carry virus particles. The claims that masks are having a dramatic effect are, in my technical opinion, grossly overstated. I’m sure they help some, but I believe other factors (maybe immunities, maybe the virus not living as long in the air due to summer temps/humidity, IDK what else) are helping too. There is not yet enough data to know, so we’re falling back on wearing masks. The CDC clearly states they “may” help; they’re NOT making the sweeping statements that the media makes WRT usefulness. So again, when I don’t wear a mask in this heat (except where required), it’s because I weigh the potential value against the actual discomfort (allergies make it hard enough to breathe at this time of year) and make a physical, not a political, choice.

Valid points. But even 30% effectiveness from the transmitter (especially the transmitter) and transmittee, both donned w masks is better than the inconvenience. As you say, despite its sub-fiber gap size, its travel through larger respiratory droplets might be impeded.

 

[Sydnerella]

I don’t dislike wearing a mask for any political reason. And if the government mandates any healthcare measure, I follow the mandate (vaccinations, whatever). But as a scientist, I can quite clearly understand that the masks we, the general population, are being told to wear do NOT filter out virus-size particles. They only stop large particles, such as saliva, which can also carry virus particles. The claims that masks are having a dramatic effect are, in my technical opinion, grossly overstated. I’m sure they help some, but I believe other factors (maybe immunities, maybe the virus not living as long in the air due to summer temps/humidity, IDK what else) are helping too. There is not yet enough data to know, so we’re falling back on wearing masks. The CDC clearly states they “may” help; they’re NOT making the sweeping statements that the media makes WRT usefulness. So again, when I don’t wear a mask in this heat (except where required), it’s because I weigh the potential value against the actual discomfort (allergies make it hard enough to breathe at this time of year) and make a physical, not a political, choice.

Valid points. But even 30% effectiveness from the transmitter (especially the transmitter) and transmittee, both donned w masks is better than the inconvenience. As you say, despite its sub-fiber gap size, its travel through larger respiratory droplets might be impeded.

We have all witnessed the politicization of this issue. I’m an engineer watching science being ignored, cherry picked and warped for selfish reasons on the daily. It’s angering and sad that those who are able refuse to social distance or wear a face covering. We might all enjoy our happy places with the mouse much faster if folks did.

So if we are citing CDC, let’s be fully transparent and honest about CDC guidance - here it is:

CDC recommends that people wear cloth face coverings in public settings and when around people who don’t live in your household, especially when other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain.

Cloth face coverings may help prevent people who have COVID-19 from spreading the virus to others.

Cloth face coverings are most likely to reduce the spread of COVID-19 when they are widely used by people in public settings.

Cloth face coverings should NOT be worn by children under the age of 2 or anyone who has trouble breathing, is unconscious, incapacitated, or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance.

Cloth face coverings are recommended as a simple barrier to help prevent respiratory droplets from traveling into the air and onto other people when the person wearing the cloth face covering coughs, sneezes, talks, or raises their voice. This is called source control. This recommendation is based on what we know about the role respiratory droplets play in the spread of the virus that causes COVID-19, paired with emerging evidence from clinical and laboratory studies that shows cloth face coverings reduce the spray of droplets when worn over the nose and mouth. COVID-19 spreads mainly among people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet), so the use of cloth face coverings is particularly important in settings where people are close to each other or where social distancing is difficult to maintain.

#science
#checkyoursources

More here:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html

 

[cgattis]

We have all witnessed the politicization of this issue. I’m an engineer watching science being ignored, cherry picked and warped for selfish reasons on the daily. It’s angering and sad that those who are able refuse to social distance or wear a face covering. We might all enjoy our happy places with the mouse much faster if folks did.

So if we are citing CDC, let’s be fully transparent and honest about CDC guidance - here it is:

CDC recommends that people wear cloth face coverings in public settings and when around people who don’t live in your household, especially when other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain.

Cloth face coverings may help prevent people who have COVID-19 from spreading the virus to others.

Cloth face coverings are most likely to reduce the spread of COVID-19 when they are widely used by people in public settings.

Cloth face coverings should NOT be worn by children under the age of 2 or anyone who has trouble breathing, is unconscious, incapacitated, or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance.

Cloth face coverings are recommended as a simple barrier to help prevent respiratory droplets from traveling into the air and onto other people when the person wearing the cloth face covering coughs, sneezes, talks, or raises their voice. This is called source control. This recommendation is based on what we know about the role respiratory droplets play in the spread of the virus that causes COVID-19, paired with emerging evidence from clinical and laboratory studies that shows cloth face coverings reduce the spray of droplets when worn over the nose and mouth. COVID-19 spreads mainly among people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet), so the use of cloth face coverings is particularly important in settings where people are close to each other or where social distancing is difficult to maintain.

#science
#checkyoursources

More here:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html

It’s interesting that I’m an engineer too and I’m pretty sure you’re disagreeing with me, even though I’m referencing the same source you are. “May.” Not “will.” We both can read the studies and see the models, but evidently we’re drawing different conclusions. (And BYW I’m wearing my mask in places that are requesting it, period.)

 

[Sydnerella]

It’s interesting that I’m an engineer too and I’m pretty sure you’re disagreeing with me, even though I’m referencing the same source you are. “May.” Not “will.” We both can read the studies and see the models, but evidently we’re drawing different conclusions. (And BYW I’m wearing my mask in places that are requesting it, period.)

False equivalency. We are not drawing different conclusions “from the same data” when you have used but one sentence from the data and ignored the rest. While I included the sentence about “may” help prevent... in addition to other data plus a link to the rest.

As an engineer who designs for the public I must review an entire resource or reference for understanding, not only a portion that validates my opinions. Lives depend on it. No difference here.

#alternativefactsareliesanddangerous

Wearing a mask where it is required should not warrant applause, it should just be done at the requirement of the property owner (if not out of one‘s sense of social responsibility to other people) and wearing one when social distancing is more difficult is generally safer than not per CDC guidance.

Emerging evidence supports that face coverings help. Foolproof? No. If I design a 60 MPH curve with the appropropriate design controls, superelevation, etc and sign the proper advisory speed is it foolproof such that a person wont elect to drive it with bald tires or too fast or while impaired? No. But it is better if I do what is proven to make the road as safe as possible? Shouldn’t the motorist too? In particular so they dont cross the double yellow line and kill the motorist in the opposing lane who did everything right?

It’s a global pandemic. Wear a mask and maintain social distance - it’s not hard people. And of course Im not speaking to those for whom this is a real challenge, its addressed to those who argue with manipulated facts or none whatsoever. Then the sooner people do this we can all get back to having discussions about and visiting our happy places like Aulani, Disneyworld, Disneyland, etc where we clearly have more in common.

Until then, I hope those who say they wont go to Aulani or elsewhere for now because they are unwilling to do those things do indeed stay away - the rest of us will be safer.

 

[cgattis]

False equivalency. We are not drawing different conclusions “from the same data” when you have used but one sentence from the data and ignored the rest

I am not ignoring the data; I’ve read the entire CDC website and several of the references, whether I quoted them or not. I’m also pretty tied of the vociferous attacks on folks who draw different conclusions, so I’m done with this conversation. I’m sure nobody wants this entire board taken up with it. But I will leave by saying again that I personally DO wear my mask where requested even though I see limited (not none, but limited) usefulness.