Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker discussion thread (*** now contains spoilers ***)

[BrianL]

Definitely thought you were being sarcastic! Thanks for clarifying!

Yeah, I was being a bit joking about it, but seriously, I think Special Editions of the Prequels and the ST would be great. It could help smooth out any perceived issues and just spruce them up a bit. Heck, polish the OT even more! For me, I actually like it.

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

With regard to the OTs, I believe they and the prequels were extensively planned out. Back in the 80s a lot of the points from the prequels were known. Senator Palpatine became the emperor. A lot of the Vader history that came out in RotS. A lot of that was alluded to in the novelizations that came out after each OT film. Lucas also said early on that he had ideas for 9 films. So maybe Leia’s relationship with Luke was a change but Lucas indicated that he had the fall/redemption storylines plotted and followed through on at least some of those plotlines in the prequels

 

[Mikey15]

With regard to the OTs, I believe they and the prequels were extensively planned out. Back in the 80s a lot of the points from the prequels were known. Senator Palpatine became the emperor. A lot of the Vader history that came out in RotS. A lot of that was alluded to in the novelizations that came out after each OT film. Lucas also said early on that he had ideas for 9 films. So maybe Leia’s relationship with Luke was a change but Lucas indicated that he had the fall/redemption storylines plotted and followed through on at least some of those plotlines in the prequels

Ideas aren't scripts though, of course, and things change when you actually set out to make something. Lucas had an outline and sets being built on soundstages, but Kasdan was an important part of Empire (and Jedi). Otherwise you don't get Lucas in a panic that the guy who scripted the first draft of Empire had died and that he needed help.

https://www.wired.com/2015/11/lawrence-kasdan-qa/
I don't know what ideas Lucas had for 7 8 9 and if they were as fleshed out as the ones he already had for 1 2 3 for a long time. Backstory is one thing; where it's leading is another. The idea of a Han/Leia kid being trained as a Jedi but falling to the dark side was one that had existed in the EU for decades, but there were still a great many ways this could have gone. I don't know if the Trevorrow draft described is real or just an idea of what it could have been, but I think comparing it, TRoS we got, and TRoS some of us have dreamed up in our heads, just goes to show that ideas are one thing, but execution is the hard part.

 

[Craig Larson]

https://variety.com/2020/film/news/...walker-billion-dollars-box-office-1203456857/
Hey, @DVCcurious, how did that Phandom Menance boycott go? I thought it wasn't going to hit $1 Billion worldwide?

 

[jade1]

https://variety.com/2020/film/news/...walker-billion-dollars-box-office-1203456857/

That's good news.

Has every Star Wars trilogy brought in less each movie? Although TRoS isn't finished for a while.

 

[Itsnotmykitchen]

That's good news.

Has every Star Wars trilogy brought in less each movie? Although TRoS isn't finished for a while.

No, the prequels in terms of box office numbers were one followed by three with two making the least. Return of the Jedi made more than Empire Strikes back, domestically at least.

Right now, Rise of Skywalker might not make more than Rogue One which is kind of surprising.

 

[TomServo27]

With regard to the OTs, I believe they and the prequels were extensively planned out. Back in the 80s a lot of the points from the prequels were known. Senator Palpatine became the emperor. A lot of the Vader history that came out in RotS. A lot of that was alluded to in the novelizations that came out after each OT film. Lucas also said early on that he had ideas for 9 films. So maybe Leia’s relationship with Luke was a change but Lucas indicated that he had the fall/redemption storylines plotted and followed through on at least some of those plotlines in the prequels

This was never planned as a nine-episode work,” Lucas told MTV. “The media [pounced when] I made an offhand comment, ’It might be fun to come back when everyone’s 80 and do another one of these’ But I never had any intention of doing that.”

 

[Itsnotmykitchen]

This was never planned as a nine-episode work,” Lucas told MTV. “The media [pounced when] I made an offhand comment, ’It might be fun to come back when everyone’s 80 and do another one of these’ But I never had any intention of doing that.”

Lucas is all over the place when it comes to his intentions. Here he is in 1980 saying that he plans on 9 movies:

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AJ&pg=4048,2528813&dq=star-wars+sequels&hl=en
Clearly what he says about the prequels is not what he actually made so it’s hard to take anything he says as proof of anything.

 

[TomServo27]

Lucas is all over the place when it comes to his intentions. Here he is in 1980 saying that he plans on 9 movies:

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AJ&pg=4048,2528813&dq=star-wars+sequels&hl=en
Clearly what he says about the prequels is not what he actually made so it’s hard to take anything he says as proof of anything.

It’s weird most everything thing you find says he did not have 9 movies planned. But I do remember that being said all the time when I was growing up that he had a plan for 9 movies.

 

[Itsnotmykitchen]

It’s weird most everything thing you find says he did not have 9 movies planned. But I do remember that being said all the time when I was growing up that he had a plan for 9 movies.

I distinctly remember him still going with his plan was 9 in an interview for Disney Adventures before the Phantom Menace came out; unfortunately I couldn’t find that archived anywhere and I was like 8 when I read it so I could be wrong.

 

[KaptKaveman]

Proof for you maybe. But there are plenty of people out there who actually enjoyed the movies and found that the flowed very nicely. No idea how you can possibly say that your opinion of the movies is proof.

He is probably right. Though they keep saying this was all planned out so I guess you can take them(at Luscafilm) at their word, but really either They planned it out and it led to this dumpster fire of a trilogy, or they didn't plan it out and it led to this dumpster fire of a trilogy. I am not sure which one reflects worse on those making the decisions at Lucasfilm.

Hey, @DVCcurious, how did that Phandom Menance boycott go? I thought it wasn't going to hit $1 Billion worldwide?

I don't know how many said it wasn't going to hit 1 Billion but it certainly is a bad trend line for Star Wars films going from the TFA through the Rise of Palpatine. 9 Movies made over 1 billion last year(if you count Rise of Palapatine). IX is going to struggle to catch up and pass Joker and it might not even catch up to Aladdin given that the box office numbers have fallen off a cliff in the last couple of weeks. It is tough to argue that this Trilogy didn't damage the Star Wars brand. TLJ may go down as the costliest movie of all time when you think about it. It sad really, so much wasted potential and this is what they came up with.

 

[Mikey15]

Re: Box office, ESB never lived up to the original Star Wars. Just looking at original runs (not rereleases), ANH did $307M domestic (that’s $1.3B adjusted for inflation), Empire did $209M ($704M), and RotJ did $252M ($723M).

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/ew.com/movies/star-wars-movies-box-office-comparison/amp/
ESB was a more mature film that didn’t match the runaway success of 1977, and the brighter RotJ didn’t so much better (apples to apples). Did Empire “damage the Star Wars brand” value though? Hardly. For most of its 40 years it’s been critically regarded as the best Star Wars film. Two new trilogies since, and each have started off strong with box office excitement that tapered off in lower, similar performances for the 2nd and 3rd acts. If a new trilogy ever did come, who would be surprised to see that happen again?

30-40 years from now we’ll still be talking about our favorite Star Wars films, and how they did financially (“only” making Disney a billion dollars? The horror!) will be merely trivia.

 

[KaptKaveman]

30-40 years from now we’ll still be talking about our favorite Star Wars films

Maybe. I hope in 30 - 40 years we will be talking about how in the 2020's they came to their senses at Lucasfilms and started making good movies with a cohesive plot and non-throwaway characters. Maybe they have started to turn it around with the mandalorian? We watched the first episode and it was okay, certainly better than the last three Star Wars movie.

I watched Empire over the holidays a few weeks ago and I was reminded why its still my favourite. After Empire the wife turned on TLJ(for some reason), I made it through about 10 - 15 minutes of that train wreck before throwing off the fleece blanket and getting the heck off the couch(much to the cat's dissapointment). Comparing Empire to TLJ or even Palapatine is like comparing Jaws to Sharknado 5.

Did Rise of Palp make a billion? Yes(so did 8 other movies last year, a billion isn't what it used to be)? Did it make a profit? Probably. Who can say what the production was and how much they spent on marketing. Conventional wisdom says a movie needs to make 2 - 2.5 its budget to break even, and this film was probably on the higher side given how much marketing there was and issues with production. Has it increased fan interest in Star Wars going forward? Unlikely. After TFA made over 2 billion we should have been talking about how high the numbers could go, instead the Rise of Palp is going to struggle to beat out the likes of Alladin or even make the same bank as Rogue One. I doubt this is what Disney has in mind when they shelled out 4.5 Bill for Star Wars but maybe like they say about the Sequel Trilogy, this is all part of the master plan.

 

[Craig Larson]

I don't know how many said it wasn't going to hit 1 Billion but it certainly is a bad trend line for Star Wars films going from the TFA through the Rise of Palpatine. 9 Movies made over 1 billion last year(if you count Rise of Palapatine). IX is going to struggle to catch up and pass Joker and it might not even catch up to Aladdin given that the box office numbers have fallen off a cliff in the last couple of weeks. It is tough to argue that this Trilogy didn't damage the Star Wars brand. TLJ may go down as the costliest movie of all time when you think about it. It sad really, so much wasted potential and this is what they came up with.

DVCCurious was in this thread before ROS came out saying that the Phandom Menance (LOL) were going to boycott this film so hard that it wouldn't come close to even $1B worldwide.

 

[BrianL]

Maybe. I hope in 30 - 40 years we will be talking about how in the 2020's they came to their senses at Lucasfilms and started making good movies with a cohesive plot and non-throwaway characters. Maybe they have started to turn it around with the mandalorian? We watched the first episode and it was okay, certainly better than the last three Star Wars movie.

I watched Empire over the holidays a few weeks ago and I was reminded why its still my favourite. After Empire the wife turned on TLJ(for some reason), I made it through about 10 - 15 minutes of that train wreck before throwing off the fleece blanket and getting the heck off the couch(much to the cat's dissapointment). Comparing Empire to TLJ or even Palapatine is like comparing Jaws to Sharknado 5.

Did Rise of Palp make a billion? Yes(so did 8 other movies last year, a billion isn't what it used to be)? Did it make a profit? Probably. Who can say what the production was and how much they spent on marketing. Conventional wisdom says a movie needs to make 2 - 2.5 its budget to break even, and this film was probably on the higher side given how much marketing there was and issues with production. Has it increased fan interest in Star Wars going forward? Unlikely. After TFA made over 2 billion we should have been talking about how high the numbers could go, instead the Rise of Palp is going to struggle to beat out the likes of Alladin or even make the same bank as Rogue One. I doubt this is what Disney has in mind when they shelled out 4.5 Bill for Star Wars but maybe like they say about the Sequel Trilogy, this is all part of the master plan.

Your constant insistence on calling it "Rise of Palpatine" is really very petty and does not lend you credibility.

 

[mcjaco]

Re: Box office, ESB never lived up to the original Star Wars. Just looking at original runs (not rereleases), ANH did $307M domestic (that’s $1.3B adjusted for inflation), Empire did $209M ($704M), and RotJ did $252M ($723M).

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/ew.com/movies/star-wars-movies-box-office-comparison/amp/
ESB was a more mature film that didn’t match the runaway success of 1977, and the brighter RotJ didn’t so much better (apples to apples). Did Empire “damage the Star Wars brand” value though? Hardly. For most of its 40 years it’s been critically regarded as the best Star Wars film. Two new trilogies since, and each have started off strong with box office excitement that tapered off in lower, similar performances for the 2nd and 3rd acts. If a new trilogy ever did come, who would be surprised to see that happen again?

30-40 years from now we’ll still be talking about our favorite Star Wars films, and how they did financially (“only” making Disney a billion dollars? The horror!) will be merely trivia.

That trend happens for every trilogy series. Its not new. So for people to come in and post what a "failure" RoS is, should do more analytics on trilogies over the years. Excitement and turnout for each subsequent movie fall off.

 

[Itsnotmykitchen]

That trend happens for every trilogy series. Its not new. So for people to come in and post what a "failure" RoS is, should do more analytics on trilogies over the years. Excitement and turnout for each subsequent movie fall off.

The Lord of the Rings made more with each movie so I’m not sure that’s true.

 

[jknezek]

The Lord of the Rings made more with each movie so I’m not sure that’s true.

It's not every trilogy but it is most of them. It's mostly logic. If you haven't seen the first movie, you are less likely to see the second. If you see the first but didn't see the second, you are less likely to see the third, let alone those who didn't watch either of the first two who are almost never going to see the third. Now obviously you can watch them later on DVD or streaming or whatever at home and get caught up and interested, but typically if you didn't care enough to see the first in theaters, you aren't going to gain enthusiasm to see the third in theaters. In other words, audiences don't tend to grow. However, the audience, in which some percentage will like the new material and some won't, tends to shrink with every addition to some degree. There are always outliers, Iron Man is a good example as that is truly a rising tide floats all boats as Marvel in general boosted each of those grosses despite the... quality... of each succeeding movie, but generally gross revenue drops with each installment not just with trilogies but with sequels.

 

[mcjaco]

The Lord of the Rings made more with each movie so I’m not sure that’s true.

And there are always outliers. Or anomalies. The Matrix's second installment surpassed the first and third entries.

 

[The Pho]

The Lord of the Rings made more with each movie so I’m not sure that’s true.

There are plenty of franchises that manage to increase earnings with each installment or have a middle entry as the lowest earning, or increase for multiple films before decreasing, or that go up and down. There is no real clear every entry will make less rule, as is made clear by the following. Raimi Spider-Man, Lord of the Rings, Toy Story, The first 2 Star Wars trilogies, James Bond (Connery, Brosnan, or Craig), Nolan’s Batman, X-men (original trilogy or wolverine trilogy specifically), The Marvel films, Fast and the Furious, Despicable Me, Mission Impossible, Pirates of the Caribbean, etc. (Yes not all of these are trilogies)