THE Auction scene was the last thing Walt saw

[DVC_Dad_Canada]

Walt's last words were "Kurt Russell". Should we bronze Kurt and stick him in Pirates?

 

[Dingdingding]

I'm shocked that there are actually people on this (!) forum that seems to hate or at least dislike Walt Disney. I have seen the unfounded smears about Walt would be a anti-semite, etc. in other places but wouldn't expect to see that here of all places.

 

[georgina]

? We're all supposed to worship Walt because we enjoy Disney World? Ridiculous. He was human, humans have faults.

 

[cschaaf]

The title of this thread makes it sound like seeing the auction scene killed Walt! Maybe they SHOULD change it then.

 

[FCDub]

? We're all supposed to worship Walt because we enjoy Disney World? Ridiculous. He was human, humans have faults.

I thought he walked on water from all the posts here.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

That's just as sexist! Can't you see that?

No, women are physically different then men. You can't change science.

https://www.livescience.com/22894-men-and-women-see-things-differently.html

Was there this much discussion when the MK started serving alcohol? There is no question what Walt thought about that. When BOG opened and started serving alcohol Pete predicted (correctly) that eventually it would spread to other venues and it did. Eventually, yes, like EPCOT it will have kiosks. It will happen slowly without fanfare. My prediction, "ale" will start first near the HOP and then rum by POTC.

 

[SorcererHeidi]

Was there this much discussion when the MK started serving alcohol? There is no question what Walt thought about that. When BOG opened and started serving alcohol Pete predicted (correctly) that eventually it would spread to other venues and it did. Eventually, yes, like EPCOT it will have kiosks. It will happen slowly without fanfare. My prediction, "ale" will start first near the HOP and then rum by POTC.

I know you're right, and I know the horse has long ago left the barn on this issue, but it still makes me wistfully sad every time I think about alcohol being served n the Magic Kingdom.

 

[Clare Voince]

No, women are physically different then men. You can't change science.

https://www.livescience.com/22894-men-and-women-see-things-differently.html

1. Not all studies are equal, often, they reflect the prejudices of the scientists conducting them. 2. Even if there are differences in the sexes, that doesn't mean that one is more able to do a job than the other, and does not in any way justify discrimination in the workplace. Having a policy that only hires one gender, regardless of their capability, is discriminatory. Were men unable to perform the job that the women did? No. Were women unable to perform the men's job? No. One had a higher pay and status, and they were discriminating against women.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

1. Not all studies are equal, often, they reflect the prejudices of the scientists conducting them. 2. Even if there are differences in the sexes, that doesn't mean that one is more able to do a job than the other, and does not in any way justify discrimination in the workplace. Having a policy that only hires one gender, regardless of their capability, is discriminatory. Were men unable to perform the job that the women did? No. Were women unable to perform the men's job? No. One had a higher pay and status, and they were discriminating against women.

I am reminded of Sheldon's mom on "The Big Bang Theory". There is no such thing as a scientific fact, there is only an "opinion".

 

[NeuroCindy]

First, let's stop acting like a livescience write-up is the scientific study. The media, even science blogs, constantly misrepresent scientific work (frequently unintentionally, it's often done to sensationalize a finding). Here are the PDFs of the actual scientific articles: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3447704/pdf/2042-6410-3-20.pdf and https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3483194/pdf/2042-6410-3-21.pdf Abramov is first author on both, and he is renowned as an expert in vision. Reading these studies, I do not believe that experimenter bias would have been high enough to change statistical significance.

Also, I have no dog in this fight. I just don't like science blogs being used like they're the actual study.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

You're right but unfortunately not everyone has access to peer reviewed journals and the actual studies. Most of us do however, possess enough critical thinking skills to "read between the lines".

 

[Clare Voince]

We can argue about the validity of the study, but ultimately it is irrelevant. It does not prove that men were incapable of doing the job assigned to women, or that women were unable to do the job assigned to men. At the time in history the ride was designed, women were not treated as equals, and the men who designed it did not give them equal treatment at the company. I don't care what Walt and his imagineers would have thought about changing the ride, because they and the ride are a product of that era.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I'm shocked that there are actually people on this (!) forum that seems to hate or at least dislike Walt Disney. I have seen the unfounded smears about Walt would be a anti-semite, etc. in other places but wouldn't expect to see that here of all places.

I don't think anyone "hates" Walt. But I for one get really tired of the people who clutch their pearls and go on about his sainted memory every time a change is implemented that they dislike in the parks.

1. He's been dead for longer than he was actually involved in the parks at this point. He's not all that relevant in terms of discussing the modern Disney corporation. He designed stuff for the audience at the time. The corporation is designing stuff for the modern audience. So much of our culture is so radically changed. Technology, morals, the business environment, etc.
2. The man was probably neither a saint nor a villain. Few people fall into either category. But he also wasn't a philanthropist. He was a business man. His name is often invoked in conversations about costs. I don't get that. I really don't think that, if we could consult him, that he'd care one bit about some people not being able to afford the parks.

I don't think that there's evidence that he was a racist or a misogynist. I think he was racially insensitive and not a particular advocate for women. Which like it or not, is something that is problematic in the modern world. The corporation wants to make money, and they don't want to alienate any significant portion of their audience.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

My DH was reading this over my shoulder, laughed and said "Did he die on the ride?"

 

[Tonyz]

My DH was reading this over my shoulder, laughed and said "Did he die on the ride?"

I don't care where you are on this debate... that's funny.

 

[woodleygrrl]

It's funny how today it is en vogue to quickly jump on anyone that cries sexism or racism or whatever "ism" and call them a precious snowflake. It is impossible for me to argue the point that the scene is sexist and is not a representation of women that Disney should be using to someone that does not believe, at his or her core, how women are portrayed in the media or in this case, rides, has a real negative effect on women. Those effects are more accurately descibed above than I can give justice to. If something hurts, why do you care if something is done to remedy it? HOW DOES THAT HARM YOU?

 

[Dingdingding]

I know several people who feel hurt when they see someone drinking alcohol because of events that happened in their past. Should Disney then do away with the Food & Wine festival because of that?

If something hurts, why do you care if something is done to remedy it? HOW DOES THAT HARM YOU?

 

[NeuroCindy]

I know several people who feel hurt when they see someone drinking alcohol because of events that happened in their past. Should Disney then do away with the Food & Wine festival because of that?

Just to clarify, you're putting drinking alcohol, which is a legal activity in the United States, on the same level as selling women to be raped, which is clearly illegal?

 

[Dingdingding]

Just to clarify, you're putting drinking alcohol, which is a legal activity in the United States, on the same level as selling women to be raped, which is clearly illegal?

Just to clarify, you're putting a representation of history in a fictional story before actual behaviour? (And I'm not proposing to ban alcohol; it's just that everyone can feel hurt about anything) Should they change the song (in which they sing of pillaging, plundering, looting, burning, kidnapping, etc.) too? Since it's all illegal behaviour. Heck; the entire attraction is about illegal (and immoral) behaviour. Where is the line?

 

[NeuroCindy]

I've had this debate too many times. You're not going to change your mind; I'm not going to change mine.

Sex trafficking is not a part of history. It is a current, thriving market with estimates of 50-60million people currently being trafficked worldwide.

Have a good night.