The Intersection of FIRE and Disney

I don't think anyone has suggested putting off traveling (or other fun things) entirely until retirement. In fact, the word "balance" has been used quite a few times by multiple posters -- me included.
My apologies. I did not mean to suggest that anyone in this thread had said that. I was referring to other types of financial forums and some people I have met IRL who are obsessed with saving just for the sake of saving and refuse to spend on anything "frivolous" until they have met their goals.

That's why I mentioned that I enjoy this thread-- because the participants seem more interested in balance (living well beneath your means in certain areas so you can spend on those you enjoy) rather than just saving as much as possible.

Hi, new to this thread (and FIRE), it seems interesting 🙂 I was curious how early everyone is intending to retire? Isit a retires in your 40’s? 50’s? When you turn 60?

I’ve never done fire, but my current retirement savings and plan have me retiring at 55.... the idea of earlier is tempting, but I’m not sure how much of my lifestyle I’m willing to sacrifice to get there.

For us, it's more about putting ourselves in a financial position to be able to do things we want without being limited by a FT job rather than just "retiring". Our kids will all be out of the house within the next 4 years and I will have just turned 43. We won't be in a position to retire by then, but we have strategically set ourselves up to have the least expenses as possible (drastically downsized, no mortgage or debt, etc) so our current jobs would not be necessary at that point. We would still need to do something to earn some income, but it could be something less stressful, something with fewer hours, or something where we could take long periods of time off to travel.

As to the bolded section of your post, everyone is different, so you would have to evaluate your own priorities. What aspects of your lifestyle do you think you would need to sacrifice to save more? How important are they to you? Would the value of the benefits outweigh any negatives? Is there anything you can do to minimize the impact of the change?

We have made two major lifestyle changes in the past year influenced our financial decisions:
1. I started working FT+. This is probably the most significant but we were able to find something that worked for our needs and still has some flexibility. I'm running a company, so it's stressful and it's not a 9-5 kind of thing, but I work mostly from home and I can still coordinate my schedule so I can take kids to doctors appointments and things during the day when needed. The biggest impact has been that our house is not as clean and our meals are not as well planned as we are used to. But, our kids are teens/adults so they are fairly self-sufficient (can cook and be manage their own responsibilities)

2. We moved to a house that is less than half the size (and half the price) of our previous home and in a different town. This is one area where people thought we were crazy and where I would have assumed our "lifestyle" would suffer. But, it really hasn't. This house is perfectly comfortable. All three kids say they prefer this house over our previous one; that this one is more "us". If anything, it's a lifestyle increase because we have more money that we can use for things we enjoy.
 
2. We moved to a house that is less than half the size (and half the price) of our previous home and in a different town. This is one area where people thought we were crazy and where I would have assumed our "lifestyle" would suffer. But, it really hasn't. This house is perfectly comfortable. All three kids say they prefer this house over our previous one; that this one is more "us". If anything, it's a lifestyle increase because we have more money that we can use for things we enjoy.

About 10 years ago, I found my "dream" house and we decided we wanted to sell our house and buy it. Our house didn't sell and looking back, it's the best thing that could have happened to us. Our payment would have increased a great deal. Even though we definitely could have afforded it, it would have taken away a lot of our flexibility to do be able to do the extras that we very much enjoy. We still don't live a lavish lifestyle by any means, but staying in the home that we already had has improved our lives / lifestyle over the years.
 
It's a very personal decision. What I told DH was, I wanted our mortgage paid off before he retired (he's 57). It could be the week before. We could pay it off tomorrow, if we wanted to, but are choosing not to. We also have enough net worth that DH COULD retire, but I don't want him to--not because I'm desperate for more money, but because we need the health benefits, and he needs to keep his mind and body active. He's an engineer--I think if he were to lose his purpose, it would depress his spirit. We also have 2 teens, with the attendant college costs around the corner. So, back to work, You!
Pretty much the same philosophy here!

We could pay off the house today. Dh could retire tomorrow (we are in our early 50s). However, healthcare access and costs are huge uncertainties. Not everyone is lucky enough to have healthcare paid for in their retirements.

Our expectations and outlook are formed by what we see around them. You're clearly blessed in having a parent who is in great health. I have one parent who passed before he could enjoy much of the early retirement he had worked so hard to achieve and another who was left without financial issues but who has been unable to travel due to health reasons for the past decade. So that's what shapes my personal view on all of this, and of course I would expect others to have a different mindset. Having the money to travel around the world doesn't help when you reach a point where you just don't think you can do it anymore, and I have a number of older relatives who are in that position. So I am trying to find what I see as a more balanced approach to it all. I certainly don't want to end up in a "we spent it all on great trips when we were younger and now we can't afford anything" place either.
Mine did all the right things, and still left us far too soon. It's easy to judge and think that other people are incapable of travel due to their own choices, but reality can be much more brutal than that. I don't think I will post any more about this here, since it's very personal. I'll just say that I posted my thoughts on the subject, and I stand behind them. I'm a big believer in "you do you."
:hug:

Also a painful topic for me---my parents died way too early, at 67 and 69. My mother had ovarian cancer and my father, who was in great physical shape, died 2 years later of a heart attack. Their early deaths have greatly influenced our thinking and actions.
 
Pretty much the same philosophy here!

We could pay off the house today. Dh could retire tomorrow (we are in our early 50s). However, healthcare access and costs are huge uncertainties. Not everyone is lucky enough to have healthcare paid for in their retirements.



:hug:

Also a painful topic for me---my parents died way too early, at 67 and 69. My mother had ovarian cancer and my father, who was in great physical shape, died 2 years later of a heart attack. Their early deaths have greatly influenced our thinking and actions.

My parents died at 47 and 65. I’m hoping and planning to live a long time, but definitely changed my perspective on things. Balance is a good thing and we try to enjoy life along the way while planning for the future.
 


Just getting back on the Dis after changing computers and losing my old login. December was crazy busy, so I have been MIA for a while.

I haven't done our year end review, so I don't have final numbers yet for our progress, but I know that we made some progress during the year. The end of 2019 was not great for us financially - my company is not doing bonuses this year (growth was flat, so no bonuses for execs - entirely understandable, but my bonus is a significant portion of my pay, so it sucks.) Christmas was spendier than we had wanted it to be (both my phone and my daughter's needed replacement), and we found out that DH's 10 year old car may need a significant repair. Not how I wanted to start the year, but its a good reminder to impose a little more fiscal discipline where we can.
 
Financial Spreadsheets - What do you track?

Starting my 3rd year of tracking and categorizing all of our spending. I still don't exactly like my set up of doing it. Using a combo of Mint and my own spreadsheet, but would like something easier. Just wondering what else we should be tracking. I need to start a net worth one, I keep an eye on it, but don't have a specific spreadsheet for it. If you do, how often do you update it? What else am I missing?
 
Financial Spreadsheets - What do you track?

Starting my 3rd year of tracking and categorizing all of our spending. I still don't exactly like my set up of doing it. Using a combo of Mint and my own spreadsheet, but would like something easier. Just wondering what else we should be tracking. I need to start a net worth one, I keep an eye on it, but don't have a specific spreadsheet for it. If you do, how often do you update it? What else am I missing?

I track my investment returns. I need to make sure I’m on track. I don’t buy and forget it.
 


Financial Spreadsheets - What do you track?

Starting my 3rd year of tracking and categorizing all of our spending. I still don't exactly like my set up of doing it. Using a combo of Mint and my own spreadsheet, but would like something easier. Just wondering what else we should be tracking. I need to start a net worth one, I keep an eye on it, but don't have a specific spreadsheet for it. If you do, how often do you update it? What else am I missing?

On a monthly basis, I track our net worth, projected taxable income and liability, budget to actual income and expenses, and investment performance. It is time consuming to track all of this each month, but I find it to be invaluable information and it helps give my DW some insight into our financial picture. I have 5 years of solid data and can pretty accurately forecast most expenditures.

On an almost daily basis, I track our projected cash flow with a calendar year schedule of known income and expenses and include an average amount of expense for the unknown. I like to manage our cash situation to keep as little as needed in our checking account, keep what is needed in the same bank savings account, and maximize the rest of liquid savings in a Discover account that has a better interest rate. It takes a few days to transfer between Discover and my regular bank, so I look at that on a monthly basis to determine what money needs to be transferred.

I know this is more than some (or most) do, but I really enjoy it.
 
Financial Spreadsheets - What do you track?

Starting my 3rd year of tracking and categorizing all of our spending. I still don't exactly like my set up of doing it. Using a combo of Mint and my own spreadsheet, but would like something easier. Just wondering what else we should be tracking. I need to start a net worth one, I keep an eye on it, but don't have a specific spreadsheet for it. If you do, how often do you update it? What else am I missing?
I couldn't even begin to describe our financial spreadsheet setup. It's robust, let's just put it that way! I built it myself and each year I add new features. Whenever I update my account info my net worth auto-calculates. I don't have a prescribed schedule for when I update but usually at least once a month.
 
I couldn't even begin to describe our financial spreadsheet setup. It's robust, let's just put it that way! I built it myself and each year I add new features. Whenever I update my account info my net worth auto-calculates. I don't have a prescribed schedule for when I update but usually at least once a month.

You could probably just provide a quick list of the things you don't track 🤣
 
Things I do track in my "financial spreadsheet":
  • Future Cash Flow projection (just a general estimate of bills and paychecks going out 12-18 months)
  • Dashboard of current month CC expenses (track MSRs, categorize purchases into major segments)
  • Current Year Ledger (all checking account activities AND all account balances including investments - this is where I can quickly calculate net worth)
  • CC Expenses sheet (info taken from dashboard at end of each month and input here - can now see a decade's worth of CC expenses month by month - later used to reconcile my annual expenses)
  • CC & Bank Bonus tracking (list of all my churning activities, also keep track of support clicks for tax purposes)
  • Loyalty Accounts (list of all my freq flyer and other points programs, current balances, expiration if applicable, used to make sure no fraud occurs on my pts accounts)
  • Tax Calculations (my tax estimator tool - I always tell me wife, the government doesn't tell us how much we owe, we tell them how much we want to pay!! - I have 5 years historical taxes in there, 2 future year projections and a retirement tax pro forma. Also calculate what my paycheck should be after all withholding and ensure that I max out 401k with a tracking tool on that)
  • Annual Comparison (over a decade worth of ALL financial information. Income, Expenses broken down by category, etc. Reconciled to the penny each year because that's just how I roll. Also includes a look forward of about 10-12 years projecting essentially where my net worth will be if figures hold steady and reasonable investment growth occurs).
  • Retirement Contributions (this was my new one this year...tracking all contributions - self or employer - back to my first dollar saved for retirement. This will be useful in the future on both a state and federal tax basis for various reasons.
  • Property Taxes (a quick sheet showing my annual property taxes and where they go, how they've trended
  • Auto Maint (detailed tracking of all auto maintenance completed, mileage at date of service, etc.)
  • A bunch of prior year ledger sheets dating back to 2008
YES - I'm nuts! :D :D
 
Financial Spreadsheets - What do you track?

Starting my 3rd year of tracking and categorizing all of our spending. I still don't exactly like my set up of doing it. Using a combo of Mint and my own spreadsheet, but would like something easier. Just wondering what else we should be tracking. I need to start a net worth one, I keep an eye on it, but don't have a specific spreadsheet for it. If you do, how often do you update it? What else am I missing?

I use YNAB for tracking spending and account balances. I don't have my investment accounts linked so I manually update each month with the balances (or every few months for things like 401k that I don't watch that closely). Although this year with the market gains I was enjoying watching that number jump! I need to remind myself of those good days when the inevitable downturn happens.

I then export the data from YNAB and create pivot tables to see a summary of spending by category.

I have another tab where I calculate the change in our account balances each year to see how much we added to savings accounts.

I have another tab with a W2 like summary. This is for calculating savings rate.

I use our income before taxes from W2 and add back 401k and HSA matching


Then I add the following to get the numerator:
  • 401k contributions
  • 401k match
  • HSA contributions (since we don't pull money from our HSA I can just use contributions. In years we pull from HSA I would count contributions minus withdrawals)
  • HSA match
  • Change in savings
  • Any other investment contributions (I don't count market gain/loss but for example I started a new brokerage account with $10K in 2019 and I include that since it shows a $10k reduction in my savings balance above)
  • Mortgage principal payments (my bank tells me how much I paid in interest each year so I subtract that from my total mortgage payments and consider the remaining principal payments as savings. I know many folks don't count that but I like to look at it this way).

Expenses are basically everything else such as credit card spending, mortgage interest, taxes, healthcare, etc.


I think that's about it. I'm eager to do this for 2019 but haven't had a dedicated few hours to get the data together. Obviously I don't have W2s yet or know our tax refund but I refine as I get more information. It's always interesting to see
 
Financial Spreadsheets - What do you track?

Starting my 3rd year of tracking and categorizing all of our spending. I still don't exactly like my set up of doing it. Using a combo of Mint and my own spreadsheet, but would like something easier. Just wondering what else we should be tracking. I need to start a net worth one, I keep an eye on it, but don't have a specific spreadsheet for it. If you do, how often do you update it? What else am I missing?

Just for a minimalist perspective...

I do not budget, but I track our checking account weekly. I have a range I like it to be in and will move money out to a money market if it is too high, or in from the money market if we have a big purchase coming up. (This probably keeps my account balance higher than many, but I'm ok with not optimizing).

I review all credit card statements for errors, and move cash back out when needed.

I do a net worth calculation every 6 months to make sure we are on track with retirement. Just a simple spreadsheet, formatted like this (made up numbers):

Date 7/1/2019 1/1/2020
Checking $2000 $2300
Savings $10000 etc.
My retirement $100000
DH retirement $150000
mortgage balance $90000

Total: add up and subtract mortgage


ETA: Sorry, submitted too soon.... it is really fun to see the net worth go up over time.
 
I use YNAB for tracking spending and account balances. I don't have my investment accounts linked so I manually update each month with the balances (or every few months for things like 401k that I don't watch that closely). Although this year with the market gains I was enjoying watching that number jump! I need to remind myself of those good days when the inevitable downturn happens.

I then export the data from YNAB and create pivot tables to see a summary of spending by category.

I have another tab where I calculate the change in our account balances each year to see how much we added to savings accounts.

I have another tab with a W2 like summary. This is for calculating savings rate.

I use our income before taxes from W2 and add back 401k and HSA matching


Then I add the following to get the numerator:
  • 401k contributions
  • 401k match
  • HSA contributions (since we don't pull money from our HSA I can just use contributions. In years we pull from HSA I would count contributions minus withdrawals)
  • HSA match
  • Change in savings
  • Any other investment contributions (I don't count market gain/loss but for example I started a new brokerage account with $10K in 2019 and I include that since it shows a $10k reduction in my savings balance above)
  • Mortgage principal payments (my bank tells me how much I paid in interest each year so I subtract that from my total mortgage payments and consider the remaining principal payments as savings. I know many folks don't count that but I like to look at it this way).

Expenses are basically everything else such as credit card spending, mortgage interest, taxes, healthcare, etc.


I think that's about it. I'm eager to do this for 2019 but haven't had a dedicated few hours to get the data together. Obviously I don't have W2s yet or know our tax refund but I refine as I get more information. It's always interesting to see
My process is very similar, but not as cohesive. I haven't done an export from YNAB, but that sounds like a really good idea - their reports are pretty informative, but would be better to capture and format the data myself. I like the way you're calculating your savings rate - I've just been kinda ballparking that, haven't settled on an actual calculation, but it might be good to do that so I can compare year over year better.

I won't have a chance to do this until later in January, maybe February (usually the same weekend I do our taxes).
 
Just for a minimalist perspective...

I do not budget, but I track our checking account weekly. I have a range I like it to be in and will move money out to a money market if it is too high, or in from the money market if we have a big purchase coming up. (This probably keeps my account balance higher than many, but I'm ok with not optimizing).

I review all credit card statements for errors, and move cash back out when needed.

I do a net worth calculation every 6 months to make sure we are on track with retirement. Just a simple spreadsheet, formatted like this (made up numbers):

Date 7/1/2019 1/1/2020
Checking $2000 $2300
Savings $10000 etc.
My retirement $100000
DH retirement $150000
mortgage balance $90000

Total: add up and subtract mortgage


ETA: Sorry, submitted too soon.... it is really fun to see the net worth go up over time.
Almost exactly what we do.

No budget tracking (we did at the beginning but have a good feel for it now so don't feel the need). Spreadsheet that has checking balance and bills due that is reviewed twice a month when we schedule bills. Net worth calculated quarterly.

I used to be obsessive about keeping the checking accounts with just enough money to pay bills. I broke that habit when I realized $500 at 1.6% (best case for the money) is $8 per year. I was investing way more time than I should have to get less than $8. :P
 
it might be good to do that so I can compare year over year better.

To me, consistency is much more important than the actual method you choose to use. Obviously you don't want any glaring errors, but if you find a method that works, stick with it. Or if you find an error or decide you want to look at it differently, go back and run prior years using the new method if possible. I try to make sure I have key data points for each year so I can modify my calculations or YE summary pretty easily.

The YNAB exports are great and also a good way to back-up your data if YNAB were to go bankrupt (the irony!) or suffer some type of catastrophic data loss. Slim chance either would happen but I like to know I have a copy of my data :)
 
To me, consistency is much more important than the actual method you choose to use.
I don't think this can be emphasized enough. Savings Rate is all about consistency from year to year. As long as it is capturing the major factors in the appropriate way you're good! Just keep it consistent. So many people want to compare themselves to others so they want to calculate the way somebody else calculates it, but the only competition here is with yourself. Can you do better next year, can you save more next year, can you avoid lifestyle creep!! If you're at 20% in your method and you make it to 25% next year pat yourself on the back! Who cares is somebody else is at 60!! And who cares if they used your calculation they'd only be at 50 so they must be "gaming the system".

This isn't directed at anybody...just a general rant about things that frustrate me with savings rate (especially on reddit where they get hung up on stuff, lol!)
 
To me, consistency is much more important than the actual method you choose to use. Obviously you don't want any glaring errors, but if you find a method that works, stick with it. Or if you find an error or decide you want to look at it differently, go back and run prior years using the new method if possible. I try to make sure I have key data points for each year so I can modify my calculations or YE summary pretty easily.

The YNAB exports are great and also a good way to back-up your data if YNAB were to go bankrupt (the irony!) or suffer some type of catastrophic data loss. Slim chance either would happen but I like to know I have a copy of my data :)

If YNAB goes bankrupt I will cry. I love it more than is really healthy :rotfl:
I don't think this can be emphasized enough. Savings Rate is all about consistency from year to year. As long as it is capturing the major factors in the appropriate way you're good! Just keep it consistent. So many people want to compare themselves to others so they want to calculate the way somebody else calculates it, but the only competition here is with yourself. Can you do better next year, can you save more next year, can you avoid lifestyle creep!! If you're at 20% in your method and you make it to 25% next year pat yourself on the back! Who cares is somebody else is at 60!! And who cares if they used your calculation they'd only be at 50 so they must be "gaming the system".

This isn't directed at anybody...just a general rant about things that frustrate me with savings rate (especially on reddit where they get hung up on stuff, lol!)
Totally agree. I like the method that @bernina mentioned - not too convoluted (although I probably wouldn't include mortgage payments :P) esp. because it would piggyback off a data that I'm already tracking. Its totally a personal psychological tool to keep you motivated. My savings rate would probably get me laughed off most FIRE boards, but my income is probably a bit higher than at least some of the people, so my $ saved per year is probably the same or higher. What is the point of comparing either measure to someone else?

I continue to work on the expense side of things, but because I rely pretty heavily on my bonus and options for big chunks of savings, my "savings rate" will fluctuate due to factors somewhat beyond my control. Which probably means that I should adjust the calc to separate out savings from bonus/options vs. savings from by base income (so maybe 2 savings rates), which would be a better indicator of how I'm managing the income/expenses that are more predictable. Hmmm. Interesting idea.
 
Finally have a good portion of my 2019 YE summary complete. Still need to verify a few numbers once the W2s arrive but it should be a pretty decent summary.

It looks like our savings rate *may* have increased by a percentage or two which is surprising because I feel like we spent a lot this year. At first I thought it decreased but then added in mortgage principle (to remain consistent with 2018) and it jumped up a bit.

I find it interesting to look at the rate with taxes in the denominator and then with them removed. Of course then I realize just how much I pay in taxes when my savings rate jumps 14% by removing them as an expense :oops:

My initial calculations show we also added about 22% to our net-worth with retirement investments, the very good market, and increasing our liquid cash savings (emergency fund).

Thank you to all on this thread, your advice, ideas, and listening ears are very much appreciated. It's wonderful to have a group of folks who value experiences like Disney just as much as they do reaching financial independence. A rare find indeed!
 

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