What substantive positive CHANGES have come from recent events?

[tvguy]

Oh please! Take a look at their budget!

Have you noticed the pandemic? Business closed and not paying sales tax? THERE IS NO MONEY.
https://sanjosespotlight.com/from-s...edented-deficits-caused-by-covid-19-pandemic/

 

[kaytieeldr]

I don't think the claim is false -- there is no question that local governments have taken a big hit financially.

False based on the unsubstantiated reason, and the amount.

CIty/town/village, state,even federal budgets have been severely affected due to drops in overall revenue (so, yes, COVID) - not at all by police activity. There are almost 18,000 police departments in the United States. The vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority have performed no killings or assaults.

Decimated has a very specific definition (it just came up on Monk last week). PP is using tge word for dramatic effect, without substance.

 

[JimMIA]

Have you noticed the pandemic? Business closed and not paying sales tax? THERE IS NO MONEY.
https://sanjosespotlight.com/from-s...edented-deficits-caused-by-covid-19-pandemic/

Well, first of all, you're talking about California... , where everything is "UNPRECEDENTED!!!"

Yes, I did hear something about a pandemic, and the resultant economic contraction, unemployment, etc, etc. You're not gonna believe this, but it has actually happened all over...not just California. And yes, I know how government budgets work and I fully realize your local governments (and state, and federal) have lost tax revenues.

But you folks solved the crisis of "natural hair discrimination," so I'm sure you can overcome this minor upset.

Go back to square one, and re-evaluate your budgets. Be sure that every penny is going to something which not only sounds worthwhile, but which is actually delivering the benefits it is supposed to deliver. If you do that, you will find tons of totally wasted money which you will be able to redirect to better uses.

Or raise taxes -- your choice.

 

[skyblue17]

One positive thing I've noticed is that this really does seem to be reaching people who might not have understood the extent of the issue before. I have not gone to any protests mostly because of the size of the crowds but it is obvious that the reach on this has been huge, with people in smaller towns speaking out and standing up. There has been a lot of meaningful discussion and it seems like people have really answered the call to listen and learn.

 

[JimMIA]

One positive thing I've noticed is that this really does seem to be reaching people who might not have understood the extent of the issue before. I have not gone to any protests mostly because of the size of the crowds but it is obvious that the reach on this has been huge, with people in smaller towns speaking out and standing up. There has been a lot of meaningful discussion and it seems like people have really answered the call to listen and learn.

Agree, and I've seen it even in my own household.

I was looking at my credit card bill the other day and saw a charge to GoFundMe. I knew I hadn't made the charge and was concerned that it was fraudulent. My DD18 has a card on my account, so I asked her. Yep...she contributed to the official GoFundMe for George Floyd's family!

And...she gave me the amount in cash because she personally wanted to make the donation, not make a symbolic gesture on my dime!

Very proud of Girlie!

 

[tvguy]

Go back to square one, and re-evaluate your budgets. Be sure that every penny is going to something which not only sounds worthwhile, but which is actually delivering the benefits it is supposed to deliver. If you do that, you will find tons of totally wasted money which you will be able to redirect to better uses.

Or raise taxes -- your choice.

Labor costs......which are cast in stone....and the big problem. They can't go back to square one.

 

[JimMIA]

Labor costs......which are cast in stone....and the big problem. They can't go back to square one.

Again, I disagree.

Labor costs are only cast in stone if every single government project is cast in stone. If you eliminate programs, you eliminate the labor costs that go with them.

I'm not anti-government -- and certainly not anti- local government -- but these are the kinds of actions governments must take if they have radical decreases in revenues. They can't just sit there and say, "Oh well..."

 

[tex1989]

Maybe, just maybe one good thing that will come out of this is that people will begin to understand that no amount of rules, regulations or laws will significantly change they way things are. People's hearts have to change. This is not a crisis of law. Mind you it is a crisis but a crisis of thought. Until people can look at each other and see someone walking the same path and facing the same challenges in life and not the color of their skin then we will continue down the path we are on.

 

[JimMIA]

Maybe, just maybe one good thing that will come out of this is that people will begin to understand that no amount of rules, regulations or laws will significantly change they way things are. People's hearts have to change. This is not a crisis of law. Mind you it is a crisis but a crisis of thought. Until people can look at each other and see someone walking the same path and facing the same challenges in life and not the color of their skin then we will continue down the path we are on.

Agree...and you have to carry that understanding forward when you start trying to develop ideas for change. In a crisis of law, changing the law will matter. In a crisis of thought, it doesn't matter -- thought matters.

So if you want to change an organizational culture, you have to change the way organizational members think. If you can change the way they think, they will change their behavior. If you can't change the way they think, you're going to have a very difficult time changing their behavior. That's why I keep saying that, specific to police organizations, change needs to come from within.

 

[Kgbdad]

Zero based budgeting doesn’t lend itself nearly as well to governments as to private companies. Governments are constrained by mandated expenditures; relatively small portions of their budgets are discretionary. It doesn’t matter how motivated a governing body is, they won’t be able to just reallocate budget line items.

If they want to redirect police funds earmarked for “boat checks” to dash, cams, body cams, and training they won’t be able to do it. No option but to pay out the ”boat check.” If they want to fund those other things, they’ll need to find new revenue or make other cuts. Cuts to the police? Or cuts from other programs to give more to the police?

 

[JimMIA]

Zero based budgeting doesn’t lend itself nearly as well to governments as to private companies. Governments are constrained by mandated expenditures; relatively small portions of their budgets are discretionary. It doesn’t matter how motivated a governing body is, they won’t be able to just reallocate budget line items.

Not sure how things are where you live, but where I live the government body that passes the budget can certainly make changes to budget line items. I agree that zero-based budgeting works better in the private sector, but our local governments certainly have latitude to adjust their budgets.

There are undoubtedly some items in the budget that are funded from other levels of government, or through special programs, which they can't touch. But they can adjust most things.

If they want to redirect police funds earmarked for “boat checks” to dash, cams, body cams, and training they won’t be able to do it. No option but to pay out the ”boat check.” If they want to fund those other things, they’ll need to find new revenue or make other cuts.

I mostly agree with this if you are talking about the department itself deciding to redirect funds appropriated for specific purposes by their governing body (city/county commission, for example). They can't do that normally.

Cuts to the police? Or cuts from other programs to give more to the police?

LOL...depends on who you talk to.

In this particular discussion we were talking about the need/advisability of body worn cameras and some said they couldn't buy them because government had no money. To me that's a question of priorities, not funds. My experience has been that the politicians can always find money for their pet projects...and lots of reasons why other things can't be funded.

But, as I'm sure you know, there are other discussions in some cities about partially or totally defunding police departments. Some folks in Minneapolis want to completely close the police department down, and booed their mayor off the stage when he wouldn't pledge to do so.

 

[Planogirl]

Closing down police departments is a ludicrous thought. All of the crime isn't just magically going to disappear. Who will they call when they need help?

 

[tvguy]

Again, I disagree.

Labor costs are only cast in stone if every single government project is cast in stone. If you eliminate programs, you eliminate the labor costs that go with them.

I'm not anti-government -- and certainly not anti- local government -- but these are the kinds of actions governments must take if they have radical decreases in revenues. They can't just sit there and say, "Oh well..."

Union contracts. They can't eliminate jobs without first negotiating with the Unions to reopen the contracts.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Not every local government employee is unionized or subject to union rules.

Now can we PLEASE get back to positive substantial changes?

 

[Kgbdad]

False based on the unsubstantiated reason, and the amount.

CIty/town/village, state,even federal budgets have been severely affected due to drops in overall revenue (so, yes, COVID) - not at all by police activity. There are almost 18,000 police departments in the United States. The vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority have performed no killings or assaults.

Decimated has a very specific definition (it just came up on Monk last week). PP is using tge word for dramatic effect, without substance.

Is Monk still in production?

Yep “decimate” does have a specific definition. . .
1.
kill, destroy, or remove a large percentage or part of.
"the project would decimate the fragile wetland wilderness"
2.
HISTORICAL
kill one in every ten of (a group of soldiers or others) as a punishment for the whole group.

And I stand by the use.
...”national economic projections suggest New Jersey will lose more than $3 billion toward its $38.7 billion budget for the current fiscal year — with deeper losses looming for 2021.”
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020...ese-stunning-examples-show-how-bad-it-is.html

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Pennsylvania just recognized Juneteeth as a state holiday

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2019/06/19/juneteenth-declared-state-holiday-in-pennsylvania/

 

[kaytieeldr]

A) Is Monk still in production?

B. Yep “decimate” does have a specific definition. . .
1.
kill, destroy, or remove a large percentage or part of.
"the project would decimate the fragile wetland wilderness"
2.
HISTORICAL
kill one in every ten of (a group of soldiers or others) as a punishment for the whole group.

C. And I stand by the use.
...”national economic projections suggest New Jersey will lose more than $3 billion toward its $38.7 billion budget for the current fiscal year — with deeper losses looming for 2021.”
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020...ese-stunning-examples-show-how-bad-it-is.html

A. Reruns. Hallmark Movies and Mysteries. Weekdays, four episodes per day starting at 7 AM.

B. "Decimate comes from the Latin word decimare, meaning to destroy or take one tenth. The word for 10 in Latin is decem (with a hard c)."

C. Given B combine with the numbers provided, @Kgbdad is 100% correct using the word decimated . Okay, maybe the NJ budget isn't quite decimated, but close enough.

 

[wildride]

How is this false claim positive?

Because budgets are finite and at some point they deplete. When you are holding over 60 officers every night & 30 on midnight shift in addition to officers on regular duty. Average overtime rate $100 an hour x that by 8 hrs a night & 7 nights a week & that s where some depts are.

 

[tex1989]

I am not sure where this whole thread got from there to here, but all budget, orginazational, structures and everything else aside I am not sure what I said is resonating. Evil is evil, bad is bad. No matter how much we spend or don't spend on police, social programs, and education the bottom line is empathy. Love, understanding, these are the things that have to change. There will always be those who are going to be bitter that someone has more, or someone has less, or someone has money, and someone does not. The very structure of our society is that more is better. More things, more toys, high dollar shoes, purses, clothes etc. Those are insignificant in the greater scheme of life. I mean heck the majority of this board is dedicated to visiting a place that the vast majority of people in this country can never even afford to visit.

We value things over people, we see others as threats to our things. His skin is a different color so we fear he will take our things! We don't see others as people. People that face the same struggles that each of us do every day. We need parents who teach their children right from wrong. We need a value system instilled in children by caring and present parents. We need values that center on relationships and doing the right things, not possesions.

Until we reach that level we will not get past where we are.

That is all I am trying to say, the issue is not the system, the issue is in peoples hearts.

 

[AlohaNow]

The US Army is revisiting the topic of renaming up to ten army posts that were named after Confederate military commanders. This has come up again and again, but I think we’ll see real change this time around. If you are interested and don’t know the history of it all, it is easily Googleable.