When do you think the border will reopen?

[tlcdoula]

Interesting email I received from Air Canada just now .... Looks like they're including the new Manulife Insurance with round trip international flights until Oct 31st.

View attachment 526414

Wow, they are really trying to get people on the flights. I can't blame them their numbers being so low. I am not sure I could travel right now, I might be more tempted to drive somewhere knowing I have more control over where we are stopping etc. I think I would be to worried about the airports, standing in line for customs etc.

When we came home from Mexico in mid March I felt ok up until we stepped off the plane at YVR and walked around the corner and seen the lines of people waiting to get through customs. I am sure they having social distancing set up now or I sure hope they do but that was the most stressful couple of hours waiting to get on our hopper plane to the island.

 

[Maddysdaddy]

Interesting email I received from Air Canada just now .... Looks like they're including the new Manulife Insurance with round trip international flights until Oct 31st.

View attachment 526414

Again, I would ask everyone to please, please read the fine print and note the $200k Covid limit...

 

[Reepicheep]

Does anyone know anything about MEDIPAC Travel Insurance? On the following webpage, you can enter length of trip, age, and deductible and get an immediate "quick quote". It appears COVID-19 is covered.

https://www.medipac.com/

 

[Chickinvic]

You know I really wish people who refuse to take things seriously would stop telling people to “hide in their houses”. It’s insulting. We are not hiding in our houses. Having valid concerns and taking things seriously doesn’t mean any of us are afraid to leave our homes and do things. Wanting to reduce risk is nothing to be ashamed of or mock.

Honestly you sound like a child that just wants to call people names. Disgusting.

The ones I really can't stand are the ones that refer to anyone who is taking precautions as "sheeple". I hate that term at the best of times, and to me it just proves someone is an idiot as soon as they spout off with that one.

 

[Carolynleanne]

It's okay to be concerned about the virus and not want to go. It's also okay to be aware of what's happening and choose to still go. It's NOT okay to tell other people what decisions to make or name call for EITHER decision.

 

[wdwmom3]

It's okay to be concerned about the virus and not want to go. It's also okay to be aware of what's happening and choose to still go. It's NOT okay to tell other people what decisions to make or name call for EITHER decision.

I agree with most of this except, people’s actions today can have huge implications on other people. If you are choosing to take risks you are also potentially exposing others to those same risks. So I do feel people do have a right to be upset about things like that.

 

[Carolynleanne]

I agree with most of this except, people’s actions today can have huge implications on other people. If you are choosing to take risks you are also potentially exposing others to those same risks. So I do feel people do have a right to be upset about things like that.

I understand, but I also think the idea of living in a country that completely controls the freedoms of its citizens is a very scary thought.

 

[wdwmom3]

I understand, but I also think the idea of living in a country that completely controls the freedoms of its citizens is a very scary thought.

If people would just take things seriously and make good decisions they wouldn’t need rules and laws. For example if people weren’t organizing huge houses parties causing a huge increase in cases, the Ontario goverbemnt wouldn’t have needed to reduce the size of gathering and make fines of $10,000.

It’s often those people who “complain about their freedom” that are causing us to have restrictions. They can’t show any personal responsibility.

Those people who attended huge parties have now affected everyone else with their selfish actions.

 

[Carolynleanne]

If people would just take things seriously and make good decisions they wouldn’t need rules and laws. For example if people weren’t organizing huge houses parties causing a huge increase in cases, the Ontario goverbemnt wouldn’t have needed to reduce the size of gathering and make fines of $10,000.

It’s often those people who “complain about their freedom” that are causing us to have restrictions. They can’t show any personal responsibility.

Those people who attended huge parties have now affected everyone else with their selfish actions.

I disagree that those who complain about freedom are the ones causing most of the issues, but I also 100% support your choice to express your thoughts and concerns I'll bow out of this specific conversation now.

 

[ottawamom]

Just wear a mask people and we'll all get through this! Think about your neighbours as much as you do about yourselves and wear a mask.

 

[von Monster]

If people would just take things seriously and make good decisions they wouldn’t need rules and laws. For example if people weren’t organizing huge houses parties causing a huge increase in cases, the Ontario goverbemnt wouldn’t have needed to reduce the size of gathering and make fines of $10,000.

It’s often those people who “complain about their freedom” that are causing us to have restrictions. They can’t show any personal responsibility.

Those people who attended huge parties have now affected everyone else with their selfish actions.

Maybe? FWIW it's been my personal experience that those that are most concerned about people not following the government's directions are usually the worst at actually doing it themselves ie "Those bad people doing are x and giving us all covid, but it's ok I went to my family function, trip/holiday, kids sports/hangouts, etc. it's really not a big deal. I know those people. It's different."

There seems to be very little understand and very much finger-pointing over the last 6 months or so (Dr. Jean Robert Ngola anyone????). I think we would all be better off if we took a little more introspection on our own activities and worried less about other people.

 

[von Monster]

I disagree that those who complain about freedom are the ones causing most of the issues, but I also 100% support your choice to express your thoughts and concerns I'll bow out of this specific conversation now.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Relevant when you compare how the whole world is doing vs. the Swedish model; when this whole thing started people where up in arms over their light touch approach, but now looking back it appears they found the sustainable approach.

 

[tinkerone]

There seems to be very little understand and very much finger-pointing over the last 6 months or so (Dr. Jean Robert Ngola anyone????). I think we would all be better off if we took a little more introspection on our own activities and worried less about other people.

But there in lies the problem. I can't go to the store without worrying about other people. If you don't wear a mask I am in harms way. If you do what is mandated, like it or not, then I would have less to worry about.
Am I wrong?

 

[tinkerone]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Relevant when you compare how the whole world is doing vs. the Swedish model; when this whole thing started people where up in arms over their light touch approach, but now looking back it appears they found the sustainable approach.

I'm not sure what your reading but by all accounts that I have read the Swedish model did not work. I believe it was worse than the US in deaths per capita. I'm going to see if I can find an news report from a reliable paper....

ETA- here's one. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/storythreads/2020-05-21/sweden-shows-the-way-forward-from-coronavirus

 

[von Monster]

But there in lies the problem. I can't go to the store without worrying about other people. If you don't wear a mask I am in harms way. If you do what is mandated, like it or not, then I would have less to worry about.
Am I wrong?

Yes - if you don't go to the store you have nothing to worry about. You are still focused on my activities rather than your own, see?

I wear a mask when I go out in public - it's sensible to do so. I think everyone should. I believe business owners have the right to mandate people who enter their place of business do so as well. Doesn't mean I think all of the government intervention has been necessary nor do I believe the government can tell me who can come into my own home.

 

[von Monster]

I'm not sure what your reading but by all accounts that I have read the Swedish model did not work. I believe it was worse than the US in deaths per capita. I'm going to see if I can find an news report from a reliable paper....

ETA- here's one. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/storythreads/2020-05-21/sweden-shows-the-way-forward-from-coronavirus

And you've found an article from May 21. Which is exactly when I noted people where up in arms about their no-lockdown approach.

Here's one from yesterday from The Guardian no less - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-its-fewest-daily-covid-19-cases-since-march
And the Financial Times just because I figured I'd grab both a 'left' and 'right' wing publication - https://www.ft.com/content/9a1e118f-a4ef-43ab-a981-58b8bd35c0e1

The Swedish approach basically front loaded their mortality rates (which they hoped to avoid by isolating vulnerable populations; it didn't work) but it did create a 'sustainable' approach that can be maintained for an indefinite time frame.

 

[tinkerone]

Yes - if you don't go to the store you have nothing to worry about. You are still focused on my activities rather than your own, see?

I wear a mask when I go out in public - it's sensible to do so. I think everyone should. I believe business owners have the right to mandate people who enter their place of business do so as well. Doesn't mean I think all of the government intervention has been necessary nor do I believe the government can tell me who can come into my own home.

Ummm, lets try this again. It's simple to say don't go to the store and I will have nothing to worry about. Let's take the word 'store' out of it. I have to go to work. That is my activity, not yours. I can't stay home. So, if I get on the bus and someone is not wearing a face mask is that my issue? I don't think so. If I go into work and someone is not wearing a facemask, is that my issue? I have to focus on other people's activities....unless I don't go on the bus or to work. Unfortunately that is not the way for most people. See?

 

[tinkerone]

And you've found an article from May 21. Which is exactly when I noted people where up in arms about their no-lockdown approach.

Here's one from yesterday from The Guardian no less - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-its-fewest-daily-covid-19-cases-since-march
And the Financial Times just because I figured I'd grab both a 'left' and 'right' wing publication - https://www.ft.com/content/9a1e118f-a4ef-43ab-a981-58b8bd35c0e1

The Swedish approach basically front loaded their mortality rates (which they hoped to avoid by isolating vulnerable populations; it didn't work) but it did create a 'sustainable' approach that can be maintained for an indefinite time frame.

Look again.....
Updated on August 12, 1:33 PM EDT

 

[von Monster]

Look again.....
Updated on August 12, 1:33 PM EDT

I did, it was last updated August 12. Did you read it? Because this quote:

Epidemiologists warn that it may be too early to draw conclusions, and some, such as Johan Giesecke, an advisor to the World Health Organization and a former Swedish state epidemiologist, has argued that when the dust has settled most comparable countries will have more or less similar death rates per capita. Giesecke argued that while Sweden has borne the brunt of infections early on, the virus will continue to spread through populations that haven’t been exposed in the absence of an effective vaccine.

doesn't do your position any favors. Was their approach perfect? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Are we all likely to wind up with the same fatality rate in the end unless a vaccine appears first? Once again maybe?

Ummm, lets try this again. It's simple to say don't go to the store and I will have nothing to worry about. Let's take the word 'store' out of it. I have to go to work. That is my activity, not yours. I can't stay home. So, if I get on the bus and someone is not wearing a face mask is that my issue? I don't think so. If I go into work and someone is not wearing a facemask, is that my issue? I have to focus on other people's activities....unless I don't go on the bus or to work. Unfortunately that is not the way for most people. See?

You neither have to go on the bus nor go to work. You want to do those things for your own reasons. If your workplace requires masks then they should be worn, same as any other PPE it requires. If the transit authority requires riders to wear masks then they should.

My point is still that you should primarily worry about your own behaviors and not others. I think it stands.

 

[tinkerone]

Anyone who would like to check out a by country chart of Coronavirus cases, here is one to check out. Canada is doing very well compared to most countries, including Sweden. I'm posting the chart from Sept 16 because that is what I had bookmarked.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
P.S.-apparently no one needs to go to work unless you want to.