Why do you own DVC if you hate Disney?

TiggerBouncy

DIS Veteran
Joined
Mar 4, 2013
I am seriously curious about this one. I never get it. I see people on these boards (and on social media and other Disney centric places) who think Disney is the big evil corporation that makes everything in the world wrong.
Disney doesn't care at all about the guests.
Disney is only in it for the money.
Disney does everything wrong.

We all see these and I know some of you are reading this message right now. So I have to honestly ask you.... since you can resell in a heartbeat and probably make more money then you put in - why do you still own DVC? If Disney is such a terrible organization, why don't you vote with your money and sell and purchase into a different (of which there are a substantial amount) travel / vacation organization?

Why do you invest in that which you do not believe?

And while we are on the subject - is there anyone but me on these boards who believes that Disney is honestly doing the best they can to deliver good entertainment at a reasonable cost (understanding that they are not a 501(c) and do actually need to make a profit and earn money for their investors so they can continue to do so)?
 
I love Disney, I think guest satisfaction is important to them. I have experienced many magical moments during our vacations. but I do disagree that they are doing the best that they can. When they take things away and increase the price, that is not just trying to make a profit that's trying to maximize a profit. Which I get, but I don't approve of. For example paid parking at resorts. Or if we're speaking specifically DVC their attempts to reallocate points or punishing resale contracts and not providing them with the same benefits afforded to direct sales.

We are getting ready to start planning our trip in 2020 and I'm incredibly excited about it so are the kids and my husband. Disney continues to increase prices. And while I can't say I'm okay with it, I still feel like the value is there.
 
Have owned DVC for 10 years and still love going to Disney. That is not to say they do not disappoint at times. I will be the first to point out that starting with the Magic Bands thru current renovations of parks that Disney has spent BILLIONS of dollars. I applaud the financial investment. However, why do the nit picky silly things that make no sense- The lock off premium at the beginning of the year may not be illegal but certainly was immoral. There is some disappointment in what appears to be a shaving of some of the new investments-Toy Story Land only 2 new attractions and no shade or seating to just sit and soak up the atmosphere. These boards are a good way to express both the excitement and joy but also the disappointment where merited.
 
I am seriously curious about this one. I never get it. I see people on these boards (and on social media and other Disney centric places) who think Disney is the big evil corporation that makes everything in the world wrong.
Disney doesn't care at all about the guests.
Disney is only in it for the money.
Disney does everything wrong.

We all see these and I know some of you are reading this message right now. So I have to honestly ask you.... since you can resell in a heartbeat and probably make more money then you put in - why do you still own DVC? If Disney is such a terrible organization, why don't you vote with your money and sell and purchase into a different (of which there are a substantial amount) travel / vacation organization?

Why do you invest in that which you do not believe?

And while we are on the subject - is there anyone but me on these boards who believes that Disney is honestly doing the best they can to deliver good entertainment at a reasonable cost (understanding that they are not a 501(c) and do actually need to make a profit and earn money for their investors so they can continue to do so)?
I'll preface this by stating that this is neither a bifurcation to justify my position, nor blind compartmentalizing. The reality is that there are two Disney's that we experience as Disney timeshare owners.

One is the Disney product itself (inclusive of the timeshare component). It's a good product if you enjoy the splendors of pure escapism. I have an 7-year old who's 6-year old self was convinced that there was a Disney ride where he actually flew through trees on the back of a dragon. My family enjoys going to the parks. We enjoy staying at nice resorts that allow quick access to world class theme parks. We also enjoy the opportunity to come back on a regular basis. After my son was wished a happy birthday by one CM, I shared with him how my son held off wearing his button all week until it was ACTUALLY his birthday. After boarding the monorail, the same CM came running in and gave my son a trading card of the black monorail and, short of breath, wished him happy birthday again.

That's the magic we love about Disney. It's the frontline cast members, it's the state of the art attractions, and it's the pure joy I see on my son's face when the Mayor of Hollywood encourages him to stay in school, to get a degree, and to go into politics if he's so intent on making school go away. That's what many refer to as "magic."

As an adult, to me, all the aforementioned is a well thought out process of creating an environment conducive to suspending disbelief for the sake of enjoying the experience. For this, I love Disney.

But like any large organization, that monorail CM is not making policy. The people put in place to engineer policy were not hired to make people feel good, or feel part of something magical. They're there to make the company money. That's their job. It's what every shareholder expects. I don't begrudge them for doing their jobs. If they failed to do this, they would lose their job.

What I do take issue with is when, in "doing their job" they fail to implement safeguards or checks to determine how their actions start to affect the part of Disney that I pay to experience. As a shareholder, I should be very concerned when the park-goer in me is reminded of this divide.

So when executives eliminate the Sunset Boulevard CMs because it's more cost effective to not have them, I will lament this business decision. When Disney leans so heavily on the college program that most CMs are overworked, poorly paid college kids who will in turn be sometimes bitter, and by nature of being transient, fail to feel committed to playing the role, I will bemoan the failure of training in customer service. And when the board of the management company at Disney's timeshare decides that increasing the lockoff premium - defying what every member knows to be true - that 1BRs are readily available, I will write letters and have conversations with them about how this has the markings of a pure money grab.

Disney is not a big evil corporation. That's an oversimplification of a complex system. But to believe that every decision made is to serve the interest of the guest is equally oversimplifying The Walt Disney Company, Inc. To suggest that they're trying to do everything at a reasonable cost is naive. Their job is to see how far they can push the line until we decide we don't want to play. They tried it with the Star Wars DVC event at Epcot. I don't see how anyone can look at that and possibly suggest that this was a decision to deliver good entertainment at a reasonable cost. The membership voted with their wallets and the event was canned.

The love it or leave it position does nothing for my family. I'm not going to punish my son because I feel Disney timeshare management taking steps to increase their bottom line is antithetical to the "welcome home" smiles they train their employees to exude. More importantly, the love it or leave it position does nothing to improve the product. If it weren't for people who decided, "No, I'm not going to love it or leave it.", you wouldn't have had the one year reprieve you did on the point charts (yeah, they'll be back).

Like most relationships in life, my relationship with Disney is a nuanced one. And the same way I love the country that gave my penniless, immigrant family real opportunities to climb the socio-economic ladder - where I'll pay my taxes, vote, and be vocal about policies I feel are against the core of what makes America great; I'll pay my dues, I'll attend the dog and pony in December, and I'll voice when I feel there are policies being implemented that are detrimental to the magic.

And you can bet I'll turn here to this community to vent.
 


I'll preface this by stating that this is neither a bifurcation to justify my position, nor blind compartmentalizing. The reality is that there are two Disney's that we experience as Disney timeshare owners.

One is the Disney product itself (inclusive of the timeshare component). It's a good product if you enjoy the splendors of pure escapism. I have an 7-year old who's 6-year old self was convinced that there was a Disney ride where he actually flew through trees on the back of a dragon. My family enjoys going to the parks. We enjoy staying at nice resorts that allow quick access to world class theme parks. We also enjoy the opportunity to come back on a regular basis. After my son was wished a happy birthday by one CM, I shared with him how my son held off wearing his button all week until it was ACTUALLY his birthday. After boarding the monorail, the same CM came running in and gave my son a trading card of the black monorail and, short of breath, wished him happy birthday again.

That's the magic we love about Disney. It's the frontline cast members, it's the state of the art attractions, and it's the pure joy I see on my son's face when the Mayor of Hollywood encourages him to stay in school, to get a degree, and to go into politics if he's so intent on making school go away. That's what many refer to as "magic."

As an adult, to me, all the aforementioned is a well thought out process of creating an environment conducive to suspending disbelief for the sake of enjoying the experience. For this, I love Disney.

But like any large organization, that monorail CM is not making policy. The people put in place to engineer policy were not hired to make people feel good, or feel part of something magical. They're there to make the company money. That's their job. It's what every shareholder expects. I don't begrudge them for doing their jobs. If they failed to do this, they would lose their job.

What I do take issue with is when, in "doing their job" they fail to implement safeguards or checks to determine how their actions start to affect the part of Disney that I pay to experience. As a shareholder, I should be very concerned when the park-goer in me is reminded of this divide.

So when executives eliminate the Sunset Boulevard CMs because it's more cost effective to not have them, I will lament this business decision. When Disney leans so heavily on the college program that most CMs are overworked, poorly paid college kids who will in turn be sometimes bitter, and by nature of being transient, fail to feel committed to playing the role, I will bemoan the failure of training in customer service. And when the board of the management company at Disney's timeshare decides that increasing the lockoff premium - defying what every member knows to be true - that 1BRs are readily available, I will write letters and have conversations with them about how this has the markings of a pure money grab.

Disney is not a big evil corporation. That's an oversimplification of a complex system. But to believe that every decision made is to serve the interest of the guest is equally oversimplifying The Walt Disney Company, Inc. To suggest that they're trying to do everything at a reasonable cost is naive. Their job is to see how far they can push the line until we decide we don't want to play. They tried it with the Star Wars DVC event at Epcot. I don't see how anyone can look at that and possibly suggest that this was a decision to deliver good entertainment at a reasonable cost. The membership voted with their wallets and the event was canned.

The love it or leave it position does nothing for my family. I'm not going to punish my son because I feel Disney timeshare management taking steps to increase their bottom line is antithetical to the "welcome home" smiles they train their employees to exude. More importantly, the love it or leave it position does nothing to improve the product. If it weren't for people who decided, "No, I'm not going to love it or leave it.", you wouldn't have had the one year reprieve you did on the point charts (yeah, they'll be back).

Like most relationships in life, my relationship with Disney is a nuanced one. And the same way I love the country that gave my penniless, immigrant family real opportunities to climb the socio-economic ladder - where I'll pay my taxes, vote, and be vocal about policies I feel are against the core of what makes America great; I'll pay my dues, I'll attend the dog and pony in December, and I'll voice when I feel there are policies being implemented that are detrimental to the magic.

And you can bet I'll turn here to this community to vent.

[Insert applause emoji here]
 
There’s been very clear examples in the past how WDW has had to make cuts because ESPN was losing cable subscribers and because Shanghai Disney was costing too much to build. I think it’s fully justifiable to criticize Disney Corp for impacting WDW vacation plans with cuts like that.
 


I'll preface this by stating that this is neither a bifurcation to justify my position, nor blind compartmentalizing. The reality is that there are two Disney's that we experience as Disney timeshare owners.

One is the Disney product itself (inclusive of the timeshare component). It's a good product if you enjoy the splendors of pure escapism. I have an 7-year old who's 6-year old self was convinced that there was a Disney ride where he actually flew through trees on the back of a dragon. My family enjoys going to the parks. We enjoy staying at nice resorts that allow quick access to world class theme parks. We also enjoy the opportunity to come back on a regular basis. After my son was wished a happy birthday by one CM, I shared with him how my son held off wearing his button all week until it was ACTUALLY his birthday. After boarding the monorail, the same CM came running in and gave my son a trading card of the black monorail and, short of breath, wished him happy birthday again.

That's the magic we love about Disney. It's the frontline cast members, it's the state of the art attractions, and it's the pure joy I see on my son's face when the Mayor of Hollywood encourages him to stay in school, to get a degree, and to go into politics if he's so intent on making school go away. That's what many refer to as "magic."

As an adult, to me, all the aforementioned is a well thought out process of creating an environment conducive to suspending disbelief for the sake of enjoying the experience. For this, I love Disney.

But like any large organization, that monorail CM is not making policy. The people put in place to engineer policy were not hired to make people feel good, or feel part of something magical. They're there to make the company money. That's their job. It's what every shareholder expects. I don't begrudge them for doing their jobs. If they failed to do this, they would lose their job.

What I do take issue with is when, in "doing their job" they fail to implement safeguards or checks to determine how their actions start to affect the part of Disney that I pay to experience. As a shareholder, I should be very concerned when the park-goer in me is reminded of this divide.

So when executives eliminate the Sunset Boulevard CMs because it's more cost effective to not have them, I will lament this business decision. When Disney leans so heavily on the college program that most CMs are overworked, poorly paid college kids who will in turn be sometimes bitter, and by nature of being transient, fail to feel committed to playing the role, I will bemoan the failure of training in customer service. And when the board of the management company at Disney's timeshare decides that increasing the lockoff premium - defying what every member knows to be true - that 1BRs are readily available, I will write letters and have conversations with them about how this has the markings of a pure money grab.

Disney is not a big evil corporation. That's an oversimplification of a complex system. But to believe that every decision made is to serve the interest of the guest is equally oversimplifying The Walt Disney Company, Inc. To suggest that they're trying to do everything at a reasonable cost is naive. Their job is to see how far they can push the line until we decide we don't want to play. They tried it with the Star Wars DVC event at Epcot. I don't see how anyone can look at that and possibly suggest that this was a decision to deliver good entertainment at a reasonable cost. The membership voted with their wallets and the event was canned.

The love it or leave it position does nothing for my family. I'm not going to punish my son because I feel Disney timeshare management taking steps to increase their bottom line is antithetical to the "welcome home" smiles they train their employees to exude. More importantly, the love it or leave it position does nothing to improve the product. If it weren't for people who decided, "No, I'm not going to love it or leave it.", you wouldn't have had the one year reprieve you did on the point charts (yeah, they'll be back).

Like most relationships in life, my relationship with Disney is a nuanced one. And the same way I love the country that gave my penniless, immigrant family real opportunities to climb the socio-economic ladder - where I'll pay my taxes, vote, and be vocal about policies I feel are against the core of what makes America great; I'll pay my dues, I'll attend the dog and pony in December, and I'll voice when I feel there are policies being implemented that are detrimental to the magic.

And you can bet I'll turn here to this community to vent.

Wow... That was very well thought out and extremely well put. I do not have a lot to answer there other than to say thank you. That helps to clarify it for me.

For the record, I don't believe the Disney can do not wrong. I was on the side of the CM's when the dispute with the raise came around (although I also disagreed somewhat with the union and don't believe the union was truly on the side of the CM's either). I do not agree with a lot of decisions they make. I was downright angry about putting Iago in the Tiki room and boycotted the ride until it was reversed. I hated Stitches Great Escape (and loved Extra TERRORestirial Encounter). I am not as upset about TSL although the lack of shade was a huge oversight. I think the skyliner not having A/C is a mistake. But many of these are design choices - like the Tiki room and Stitch. Other areas I disagree with them are my personal opinion against what I know is a constant struggle of imagineers against management against stock holders. That's a reality of a large corporation.
 
I like Disney, but I think its really important for anyone who is going to tie themselves to Disney through what to most families is a huge capital investment, are aware of the realities of Disney as a business. I enjoy my Disney vacations. I also admire Disney as a capitalist corporation. I like Disney best as a logistics management tourist experience (wow, look how they put this transition together....or this queue....or organize this race). None of that is magic to "believe" in. Its watching how a corporation works.

Stop looking at the "haters" as haters, start seeing us as pragmatists and you'll understand what we are saying a lot better.

When I first arrived on this site, the pixie dusters WAY outnumbered the pragmatics. The pixie dust addiction was fierce, and pragmatists were often shouted down. That the pragmatics have a voice is a good thing - if we keep people from buying DVC for whom its a really bad fit, that's good. If we keep someone from having a vacation ruined by unrealistic expectations, that's good.

Or, I'd rather be the stranger on the internet showing you the clue bus and have you be mad at me than have you show up at Disney after investing $20k and get hit by the clue bus when your room isn't ready until 6pm ands when you get in, you find drawers off their rails.
 
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I can think of 2 possible reasons. The first is that perhaps the poster is married to a big Disney fan. DH isn't fond of Disney (he didn't even go with me on the DVC tour). But when he saw the smile on my face, he said "Sounds really good-I think we should join." Smart man!
The other reason is Hilton Head (or possibly, Vero-we've never been, so I don't know). We spend almost all our DVC vacations at the DVC resort at Hilton Head. We occasionally go to WDW, but most of my trips there are solo.
 
Well, I did sell. In truth, the largest reason was a job loss, but if Disney didn’t “mess up” a lot of things I would have found a way to keep my DVC.
Getting rid of Pleasure Island and the Adventurers Club is sort of what started the fall for me. There are also things like turning the Pirates of the Caribbean into the “Jack Sparrow” ride. Not a big deal to some, but to me it demonstrates abandoning their core. I can continue with many examples. Frozen replacing the Norway ride also comes to mind. Cheaping out on the Poly’s lobby refurb, reducing the 360° holiday fireworks, no longer adhering to site-lines, lack of food variety in the signatures, lack of merchandise variety in the shops, poor housekeeping, major reduction in CM tradition training..... well, I could go on for an hour.

Point is, at one time we were the biggest Disney fans on the planet.
We did not leave Disney.... Disney left us.
 
I'm not a Disney "hater", but I have become less of a Disney "lover". We have been DVC members for over 20 years and I have seen huge changes. It has become perfectly clear to me that Disney is not that into us old-time DVCers anymore. They would rather have the "once in a lifetime" guest with open wallets than stingy old me. There is a constant flow of them ... filling the resorts at rack rate, eating on the DDP and shopping until they drop. Last trip, other than food, my purchases were 2 pins over 8 days.

I'm not saying that DVC hasn't been good to me. It has. There is no way I would bring myself to pay for a WDW trip without DVC. I pay $1900 a year in dues and that gets me 8 days in October (3 days BLT + 5 days BWV) plus 12 days in January (5 days AKV-Concierge + 7 days BWV) with a few points left over. My average cost is about $87 per night for the 273 points I used. I can't stay in the All Stars for that amount. However, I think I'm done for a while after this next October trip. The escalating cost of passes (well above inflation), the shameless upsells, and the ridiculous food pricing make even a "cheap" stay in a DVC resort expensive. I budget about $125 per day just for food and we *rarely* eat at TS restaurants.

I have come to a place in my life that I am soured at the constant money grabs and I would rather spend my money somewhere else. But, I'm not ready to sell quite yet. My DD is 20 and may want to use the points in the near future. I can also rent out points to cover my dues and also make enough money for a very nice vacation somewhere else. I am aware that my BWV points will start to lose their in the next 10 years with an expiration date of 2042 but until then I think I will let it ride and plan on fewer trips.
 
Or, I'd rather be the stranger on the internet showing you the clue bus and have you be mad at me than have you show up at Disney after investing $20k and get hit by the clue bus when your room isn't ready until 6pm ands when you get in, you find drawers off their rails.
@crisi --Would you mind explaining what the term "clue bus" means? I assume, perhaps incorrectly, this is a metaphor for having a clue (or getting, or giving, a clue), but I've never heard this term before and other than a book called Get on the Clue Bus, I can find no information about it. Thanks!
 
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Very good posts here that express my thoughts much better than I ever could. My 2 cents is that imho we DVC owners of 10 years or more see and feel the impact of the changes more than the recent DVC buyers or the folks considering a DVC purchase. Our visits have evolved to minimize our exposure to crowds, heat, lines, long transportation waits, and overpriced forgettable food. We still enjoy certain aspects of Disney but have learned to manage our plans. The info from people here without the rose colored glasses helps.
 
It’s not that I hate Disney, rather - I have became “disenchanted”. It seems like the “charge more and deliver less” train is picking up speed.

As the value equation shifts I find our family tends to spend money outside the Park(s). We’ll still stay in a villa but will do other things (Vero, Universal, etc).
 
I love Disney and believe they do their best to please all their customers to try and get life long guests. I don’t believe they are charging the amount they do because they need to to make a profit. They could easily charge less but choose not to. I know that Disney does a lot of things that upset people but it doesn’t change how much I love going and enjoy my time there.
 
@crisi --Would you mind explaining what the term "clue bus" means? I assume, perhaps incorrectly, this is a metaphor for having a clue (or getting, or giving, a clue), but I've never heard this term before and other than a book called Get on the Clue Bus, I can find no information about it. Thanks!

You've got it.
 
I really do think that what some new buyers/new posters perceive as "hating Disney" is more about reality check after dealing with the company and system over time. Many new buyers are sniffing the pixie dust, but it really does wear off. At the end of the day, this is a timeshare, not a club via which Disney is going to treat you better/more special than other guests. Arguably, they often take DVC guests for granted.
 

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