RESALE POLICY CHANGE!

[emilymad]

I wonder how many DVCers use APs. The ones buying 100 points to bank/borrow to go every 2-3 years certainly aren't.

I think a fair amount of DVCers use APs to do the 2 trips in one year plan. We have seen the AP program diminish and the DVC discount be decreased. I don't think I would buy direct just for this perk that can change or be pulled at any time.

 

[jimim]

I look at my purchase this way for resale. I paid cash. I look at the money I dumped like buying something for our house. money would have got spent anyway so every year I pay for my dues is what my rooms cost for the 3 trips I get out of my points so even with a moderate room I am way ahead of myself, so I will always save money doing multiple times a year. but having the extra money off for ap and tiw is really nice discount to have. we do save a lot with tiw.

so if I ever had to buy a 25 pt direct contract to get these benefits if they took them away I might if I had the money available and it didn't affect other savings.

but what if Disney then says there is a 4th class of citizen. . . no perks to add on direct from original resale people. would I have to sell my resale and then go rebuy a resale contract . . . you can spin ur head endlessly on this.

I guess the main thing to take away is like people have always said here. perks can always go by by and you are purchaseing a room discount. . .

jim

 

[DebbieB]

Just to avoid confusion, it was the Disney Collection (including cruises) that was taken away from resale buyers in 2011, not RCI exchanges.

Concierge Collection also not included. That really didn't bug me that much because they were bad deals anyway plus they did not affect what most people use DVC for.

One thing on my mind as I thought more about this is no member card (if true). They can send their dues money to DVC every year but they don't get a cheap plastic card with their member number and member services phone number? Trey could put a designation on it for no discounts. They will truly be second class members and I think it's sad. Makes me wonder about the future of DVC.

 

[jimim]

As I stated in my Do DVC Members deserve better perks post, perks offered by DVD are a marketing tactic to entice people to buy into DVC. From a marketing perspective, DVD needs to provide some differentiation between buying direct and buying resale. There has to be some justification for the price variance between direct and resale. Clearly, the changes they made in 2011 have been deemed not effective enough. We have seen direct point sales decline over the past year, and this is a plain and simple marketing tactic to increase the value of a direct purchase over a resale purchase. Guides must be jumping up and down with excitement for this new sales tool.

DVD is a business, and it exists to sell. Perks are a marketing tool to help sell. The primary reason for DVC to offer perks is to help improve sales by Disney Vacation Development. Offering perks to all members does increase their goodwill towards Disney and increases the positive word of mouth about DVC from current members to their friends and family. A lot of happy members providing positive word of mouth advertising would be a good marketing tool. So, it's good for business - to a certain extent. However, in this case, DVD decided it's direct sales would be better enhanced by differentiating it more from resales.

I agree. it's like the new commercials about all the stuff you get for free by staying on property. . . transportation, fast pass differences, extra magic hours. . . that whole extra magic hour thing should have an little clarifier to it that you will soon have to pay for it since that will be the next thing to go. . .

 

[jimim]

When buying resale it should only include the resort you buy into and I believe it is moving that way. Because direct cost more and should include more benefits than resale.

says the person who owns direct. why should it be that way. Disney property is Disney property just as dvc property is dvc property.

 

[pmaurer74]

I asked my husband this morning if he was glad we bought when we did 6 months ago or if he regrets it due to uncertainty about the future of DVC? He said he is glad we bought when we did. Even though these changes do not affect me right now, I always thought I could easily sell my DVC if I needed to and even make a little money or not lose much money. Now I feel more likely to keep the membership for the long haul. I still do not understand why DVC would do this... having a healthy resale market with good values is a huge selling point for potential buyers knowing that it is different than other timeshares that way. To answer the above question from PP, We are not getting an AP because we are in the blackout time period right before Christmas so the value is not there for us. I am feeling disappointed by Disney. The changes they have made lately nicking and diming people I really did not care about but it its the speed at which they are making changes makes me feel like they do not care about the quality of their product or me as a customer anymore and that is what has always made Disney different.... now I wonder. I bought DVC to take family and friends. We are taking 20 people this year for only the cost of our dues. I hope to give my daughters honeymoons some day. I still hang on to the main reason I bought DVC and try not to worry about selling in the future.

 

[loveswdw]

A few thoughts
There really aren't any other special events outside the member breakfast. Most west coasters have an annual pass so already get the discounts. So the Disneylanders aren't affected too much.

Luckily for you West Coasters, Potrock did mention special events for West Coast this year.
"In the coming months we’ll be bringing you even more spectacular Membership Extras as part of the anniversary, from exclusive merchandise and one-of-a-kind events (including exciting plans for the West Coast) to an all-new Member Lounge opening later this spring in the Imagination! Pavilion at Epcot. And there’s so much more Disney Vacation Club fun on the horizon!"

Since we have our first DL trip in October, I'm hoping they'll have something cool going on.

 

[lugnut33]

Between these changes, changes in the parks with FP+, and changes with AP structure, I'm very glad to have sold my DVC contracts last October. I feel like I got out at a good time.

 

[ldo]

my thoughts:
We bought resale in 2007, then 35 points direct later (b/c we wanted the points ASAP and the cost was not a big difference). We went on the DVc Members cruise on our 35 point add on contract (paying cash). The Members cruise was really great, and worth us paying the DCL premium to go for 4 days, but not thousands more for the DVC purchase price. And we have gotten AP 1X.
We bought resale last year (AKV $80) and I would do it again, even with no perks. Why, b/c otherwise, I just don't see it cost effective for us to buy at a higher price. And, I would be happy if I was even locked into staying only @ AKV. I thought they would nix some perks and if they possibly (ever) could nix the 7 months switch (say direct gets 7 months and resale gets 4 months, etc.), then I wanted to be at the resort I loved. I'm sure many resale buyers are in my camp. AP discounts, pool hopping, DVC parties are not worth thousands to me.
I feel like royalty when I step into the AKV lobby, and at $80PP, I am OK to be the poor relation.

 

[rotlex]

This pretty much ends any and all desire we have ever had to buy in. Been looking again at resale, trying to see if it's worth it or not. Came to the conclusion it's an even wash considering the deals we normally get for vacations. Learning that they are taking away these perks, especially the season pass discount, makes buying in of absolute zero value for us. It would be more expensive to own DVC than to simply go every year on a package\deal\discount.

Kind of feels like a big relief actually.

 

[madhavok]

I bought mine resale about a year ago, still glad I did. I would not have even considered buying if it were not for the AP discount or the ability to by TIW without AP.

Will this change resale prices?

 

[pmaurer74]

This pretty much ends any and all desire we have ever had to buy in. Been looking again at resale, trying to see if it's worth it or not. Came to the conclusion it's an even wash considering the deals we normally get for vacations. Learning that they are taking away these perks, especially the season pass discount, makes buying in of absolute zero value for us. It would be more expensive to own DVC than to simply go every year on a package\deal\discount.

Kind of feels like a big relief actually.

I can see why you feel that way. it depends upon how you would use the DVC and every family is different, however when I priced out a 40% discount for my sister for a 2 bedroom villa it was $5,000 with DVC for me it is $1200 just my dues (not counting original points). Rack rate would have been about $7,000. There is no guarantee that Disney will continue to offer deals. We bought DVC because we were tired of waiting for deals to come out and then not getting the resort or room category we wanted. At least I will have my discount for the next 25 years in place. We are providing lodging for 20 people this year on two trips and 4 rooms. It is costing us $3400 total in dues. Rack rate would have been about 20k. If you were on the fence before, I can see how this would give you a negative opinion of DVC though.

 

[ziravan]

What is really being discounted in this type of punitive action is the Goodwill that exists or existed between Disney/DVC and its' "Best Customers"...........

In this policy change, DVC has just told their entire membership that it has taken 25 years to create that the marketing of our new product is more important than the value of your personal asset. I take that back. DVC isn't telling just the entire membership. It is telling the entire membership and every potential member that DVC Marketing is more important

Many of us were not interested in timeshares.........Disney marketed DVC by taking the worse parts of timeshares, changing them in unique way tha made it better. For example, instead of going to a specific size unit on a certain week every year the point system allowing flexibility in accommodation size, length of stay,time of year was created. The closing argument for this new type of timeshare program was simple........We're Disney and you can trust that we are going to keep the high standards in place for the entire length of your contract. Also, a selling point was that if you have to sell your membership for whatever reason your equity would be safer because you purchasing from Disney.

We have been members since 98. The first 6-7 years if someone asked, Would you recommend DVC, our response would have been ""Absolutely". The Jim Lewis regime came into power and started to erode our response of absolutely. The extension of the OKW contracts were handled in such a heavy handed way by DVC that was the downward spiral. The last change that people who bought a DVC Resale could not use their points on the RCI exchange never made sense because people bought into DVC because they wanted to go to WDW not Branson,MO.

Disney's Survey Team and Market Studies have allowed Disney to alter market their product to keep the customer on site and maximize their spending at WDW. They used to have a 3 day pass. Disney figured out that people would vacation 4 days on average. They would buy a 3 day pass go to MK and EPCOT then they would go to Sea World Busch Gardens or Universal. Disney stopped offering the 3 day pass and built Living Seas, Animal Kingdom and MGM. This was all done to thwart competition.

We are no longer Members or even "Best Customers". We are now officially "The Competition". If DVC is going to treat future members who purchased via resale as 2nd Class Citizens and current Members as Competition then DiVC no longer has any Goodwill. To bad, DVC didn't consider offering free passes until 2020 to market their overpriced new inventory instead of alienating their membership. Maybe, it would have generated 400 post in a day that I want to buy new inventory vs how DVC has screwed us over!

Honestly, this move officially moves me from recommending DVC to not doing so. Sad.

I know DVC was never a "club". That's never been more true than today.

DVC seems bent on proving its just another timeshare.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I wonder how many DVCers use APs. The ones buying 100 points to bank/borrow to go every 2-3 years certainly aren't.

I have a small 100 point contact, bought through resale. I actually go more than every few years and typically have an annual pass. Even with a small 100 point contact, you can get a few trips out of an annual pass depending on when you go and what type of room you need.

 

[sgtdisney]

Many of us were not interested in timeshares.........Disney marketed DVC by taking the worse parts of timeshares, changing them in unique way tha made it better.

This is it, in a nutshell for me. I have read a number of replies saying that other timeshares companies do this, give additional benefits, etc. to special classes of membership. That is why this bugs me. When we first heard about DVC in 1991, when I was on my honeymoon, we told family about this exciting new program and everyone was telling us, don't be insane, timeshares are terrible, timeshares are not a good deal. The fact was, at the time, DVC was not a timeshare, it was was the un-timeshare, if you know what I mean. It was a unique product, and and in 1992, an incredible value. DVC stood out among a crowd of other companies as being different, being special and unique. Now others have jumped on their business model to varying degrees. So what does Disney do, make a moves toward being less "Disney-like" and emmulate some of the lessor things these "others" do? Timeshare weeks, less benefits, punishment for selling and buying outside of Disney? Magic takes a back seat to money. Maybe it always did, Disney is a business after all, but if so, I guess they were better at hiding it?

It almost would have been better if they came up with something unique or special to offer direct buyers similar to what they did with the free tickets back in the beginning. I know that would never happen again, but something special for new purchasers for a limited time frame. That is a sales technique, that I could say was realistic and equitable. I just thing making a caste society of DVC members is really, not very Disney-like.

 

[rotlex]

I can see why you feel that way. it depends upon how you would use the DVC and every family is different, however when I priced out a 40% discount for my sister for a 2 bedroom villa it was $5,000 with DVC for me it is $1200 just my dues (not counting original points). Rack rate would have been about $7,000. There is no guarantee that Disney will continue to offer deals. We bought DVC because we were tired of waiting for deals to come out and then not getting the resort or room category we wanted. At least I will have my discount for the next 25 years in place. We are providing lodging for 20 people this year on two trips and 4 rooms. It is costing us $3400 total in dues. Rack rate would have been about 20k. If you were on the fence before, I can see how this would give you a negative opinion of DVC though.

Your very right that everyone is different. The size of your group along with the rooms you need make it worth it for you. (Although I'd be factoring in the initial point purchase). My issue outside of this last cut is that nothing is guaranteed even with DVC. Sure, your point requirements are, but not ticket\pass costs, food costs, maintenance fees etc. etc. The fact that they made this change, and I was able to once again book a two week stay at the Poly with park tickets for 4 people at $3600, makes DVC a total no go at this point.

While I said it was a relief, it's also sad. We love Disney, but every year they take and take without ever giving anything to those truly loyal fans.

 

[nitrot150]

Well, I'm not a fan of the changes.
The AP discount we've used 2x just on a random extra trip we took that made it work, but we are west coast, so getting to FL is a 5 hr flight, only going to happen 1x a year max. (we just happened to go on a bonus trip within a 10 month window this year, so got do get the AP for once). So that won't affect us too much if they ever completely took it away. The dining is nice though. Although i didn't realize that it wasn't as many restaurants as I remembered. And we have never been to the TOWL, mostly because it's hard to get to (we own in BWV and stay there often, plus little kids with us). I am curious about the new one in Epcot though. The member events are so random and there is no notice....so hard to plan dates when you booked 4 months prior (and if you are only off a day or two, kinda hard to change to accommodate that!).

 

[ell13]

It almost would have been better if they came up with something unique or special to offer direct buyers similar to what they did with the free tickets back in the beginning. I know that would never happen again, but something special for new purchasers for a limited time frame. That is a sales technique, that I could say was realistic and equitable. I just thing making a caste society of DVC members is really, not very Disney-like.

The idea of giving something extra rather than taking something away would have been a much, much better approach. I wonder if it was ever considered. And if not, which is likely the case, it reiterates the fact that DVC is solely in it for the money and not for the customer experience.

 

[Andrew*A]

It is .... Disney said today that as long as your contract was signed and submitted by today that you were good.... Good luck

Hi, Just to clarify, we are at the point of wiring our payment for our first resale contract. We have emailed our closing documents back to the sellers. Disney waved their ROFR about a month ago. I presume we are safe from the new changes? Being new to DVC we have found it all very confusing and this has only added to the confusion.
Thanks for any replies.

 

[kenspidey]

Hi, Just to clarify, we are at the point of wiring our payment for our first resale contract. We have emailed our closing documents back to the sellers. Disney waved their ROFR about a month ago. I presume we are safe from the new changes? Being new to DVC we have found it all very confusing and this has only added to the confusion.
Thanks for any replies.

You are all set and are grand fathered ...your contract was submitted before yesterday to Disney.