Not a good start to my Disney vacation.

[mco65]

well. $1600 is a big snafu IMO. I too would have been a bit miffed myself but usually a CM brings me back to good. Surprised that didn't happen this time.

I guess sometimes there is no getting back to good.

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

It's the mindset of people EXPECTING to receive something for what in actuality COSTS them nothing. Yes time is valuable, but really it's no more than a 5 minute phone call...15 at best. How does that qualify for something such as park hoppers? Come on now.
I hear/see/experience it all the time. And each time I seriously just wonder at how that mindset could come about.

My whole point is that I don't think it's "entitled" to want to be made whole over something that the company costs me time or money.

The last time we were double charged (actually charged 5 times), it was a HUGE inconvenience. It took us forever to get it sorted out and costs us 3-4 hours the week we were getting married. We were not going to be able to pay our other wedding vendors. We were getting married in 5 days by the way, so didn't have 7-10 days for it to clear which is why we were on the phone so much. The credit card company couldn't get it to go away. That is insanely stressful. If it happened to us this week, we'd say "Eh whatever..."

Since we don't know what OPs week looks like, I'd rather give him/her the benefit of the doubt that this does cause him unnecessary stress and not assume he's entitled.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Computer errors are a pain. However, you may not understand how credit card systems work. Charges are put against your file as "Pending" immediately. They are reconciled daily (or more often) and moved to actual charges.

Although a company can issue you a "credit" as far as the bank is concerned, the credit only sit's in it's system until they reconcile their system - which could take anywhere from 7 to 21 days and involves a lot of back end bank to bank transactions. Basically, your bank doesn't give you the credit until the money from Disney works its way from their account thorough interbank channels back to your bank and eventually your bank internally reconcile the credit.

In short even if you had a Senior Vice President of Disney call your bank in disgust and demand that your bank issue you the credit back to your card immediately, it wouldn't matter. Disney is as powerless as you are in that respect.

SOME banks will handle credit differently, and some will give you temporary increases against a pending credit. That''s an issue with your bank though. You're mad at the wrong person and you are asking for something for free that's not Disney's fault. It's like me calling them up and demanding free park tickets because my washing machine with a mickey mouse magnetic sticker on it broke down.









I loved that washer.

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

That''s an issue with your bank though. You're mad at the wrong person and you are asking for something for free that's not Disney's fault.

When someone gets the money back is irrelevant. Disney's computers caused his money to be tied up. That was absolutely Disney's fault.

How is it the credit card company's fault he was charged twice?

 

[poppinspenguins]

It's the mindset of people EXPECTING to receive something for what in actuality COSTS them nothing. Yes time is valuable, but really it's no more than a 5 minute phone call...15 at best. How does that qualify for something such as park hoppers? Come on now.
I hear/see/experience it all the time. And each time I seriously just wonder at how that mindset could come about.

5 minutes? I must say I have never had a call to Disney take 5 minutes. 10 minutes to just get through the 20 questions they automate!

I was a waitress in college...we comped people all the time if we took to long or made a mistake on their food. 9 out of 10 times the consumer never asked for it, but we did it as a goodwill gesture. Also worked customer service for yrs. Lots of comps. You would rather have a happy consumer who will comeback than one that will bad mouth you. In he grand scheme of things it cost very little, whereas the cost of new customer acquisition may be quite high.

I think hoppers is extravagant as said before , but a very sincere apology at the very least is required.

I spent over an hour just last week with car payment company for a mistake they made. Had to do it during my kids nap time (that 90 minutes is like gold!) They were super nice and they reversed a charge that shouldn't have been there. That was enough for me. But it was more than a 5 minute call I can guarantee you that!

I agree there is an entitlement issue in society. But at some point companies need to realize your time is of value too. If not compensating, at least own mistake, genuinely apologize etc.

Also...Disney was very much talked up in my marketing classes in college. Whole chapters on them.

 

[smiths02]

My whole point is that I don't think it's "entitled" to want to be made whole over something that the company costs me time or money.

The last time we were double charged (actually charged 5 times), it was a HUGE inconvenience. It took us forever to get it sorted out and costs us 3-4 hours the week we were getting married. We were not going to be able to pay our other wedding vendors. We were getting married in 5 days by the way, so didn't have 7-10 days for it to clear which is why we were on the phone so much. The credit card company couldn't get it to go away. That is insanely stressful. If it happened to us this week, we'd say "Eh whatever..."

Since we don't know what OPs week looks like, I'd rather give him/her the benefit of the doubt that this does cause him unnecessary stress and not assume he's entitled.

The upgrade to Hoppers for OP would be about $345. It would really take $345 to be made whole for having to make a phone call and waiting for a pending credit?

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Disney's computers caused his money to be tied up. That was absolutely Disney's fault.

How is it the credit card company's fault he was charged twice?

You know that, do you? Have you examined personally the system logs between Disney's servers and the bank servers?

Where I am coming from: I have certified over a dozen systems for credit card processing with banks (that I wrote). So I have a decent handle on how these systems work. The processing error could have been on the bank's side. it could have been on telco's. it could have been on Disney's. It could have been anywhere in 2 dozen routers between.

It would take a very detailed analysis of dozens of log files to determine which system is at fault. Disney is no more or less at fault that AT&T is. So you could just as easily call them and demand a free month of cell service because it's just as likely (if not MORE) that one of their routers is what dropped the transaction ID. See how far you get with AT&T on that argument.

 

[Kimberly9701]

My whole point is that I don't think it's "entitled" to want to be made whole over something that the company costs.

The last time we were double charged (actually charged 5 times), it was a HUGE inconvenience. It took us forever to get it sorted out and costs us 3-4 hours the week we were getting married. We were not going to be able to pay our other wedding vendors. We were getting married in 5 days by the way, so didn't have 7-10 days for it to clear which is why we were on the phone so much. The credit card company couldn't get it to go away. That is insanely stressful. If it happened to us this week, we'd say "Eh whatever..."

Since we don't know what OPs week looks like, I'd rather give him/her the benefit of the doubt that this does cause him unnecessary stress and not assume he's entitled.

But you claimed that they were holding his money to gain interest from said money.
Again, that is absolutely untrue.

5 minutes? I must say I have never had a call to Disney take 5 minutes. 10 minutes to just get through the 20 questions they automate!

I was a waitress in college...we comped people all the time if we took to long or made a mistake on their food. 9 out of 10 times the consumer never asked for it, but we did it as a goodwill gesture. Also worked customer service for yrs. Lots of comps. You would rather have a happy consumer who will comeback than one that will bad mouth you. In he grand scheme of things it cost very little, whereas the cost of new customer acquisition may be quite high.

I think hoppers is extravagant as said before , but a very sincere apology at the very least is required.

I spent over an hour just last week with car payment company for a mistake they made. Had to do it during my kids nap time (that 90 minutes is like gold!) They were super nice and they reversed a charge that shouldn't have been there. That was enough for me. But it was more than a 5 minute call I can guarantee you that!

I agree there is an entitlement issue in society. But at some point companies need to realize your time is of value too. If not compensating, at least own mistake, genuinely apologize etc.

Also...Disney was very much talked up in my marketing classes in college. Whole chapters on them.

Yes they have a great business and customer service platform. No, that doesn't include giving away hoppers bc of a technical error that will not result in a customer being charged more than the original cost.
As to the restaurant comparison- if the ME doesn't show up for 4 hours past when it's supposed to - then by all means compensate with hoppers.

Compensation is determined on a case by case basis, in any business. Unless you are severely inconvenienced you should never expect it. If you get it for a minor inconvenience, wonderful. But from the OP's hostile post I don't see that phone call going politely. Maybe it did..just highly doubtful based on his posts here.

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

The upgrade to Hoppers for OP would be about $345. It would really take $345 to be made whole for having to make a phone call and waiting for a pending credit?

For him, it might be. For me, it would depend on what else is going on in my life. And it doesn't even cost Disney anything to upgrade tickets to hoppers. People who hop don't cost Disney money.

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

You know that, do you? Have you examined personally the system logs between Disney's servers and the bank servers?

Where I am coming from: I have certified over a dozen systems for credit card processing with banks (that I wrote). So I have a decent handle on how these systems work. The processing error could have been on the bank's side. it could have been on telco's. it could have been on Disney's. It could have been anywhere in 2 dozen routers between.

It would take a very detailed analysis of dozens of log files to determine which system is at fault. Disney is no more or less at fault that AT&T is. So you could just as easily call them and demand a free month of cell service because it's just as likely (if not MORE) that one of their routers is what dropped the transaction ID. See how far you get with AT&T on that argument.

Fair enough, it could have been the server, but Disney still picks who they have a contract with for those services.

 

[poppinspenguins]

Good luck. They double charged us once. CM said a CC charge didn't go through & charged to our room too. Both went through.

Several international calls & months later, they swear they reversed it. Finally had to dispute it with our CC. Not the CC company's error either. My DH worked for our card's issuing bank & Disney never posted the credit.

But you claimed that they were holding his money to gain interest from said money.
Again, that is absolutely untrue.

Yes they have a great business and customer service platform. No, that doesn't include giving away hoppers bc of a technical error that will not result in a customer being charged more than the original cost.
As to the restaurant comparison- if the ME doesn't show up for 4 hours past when it's supposed to - then by all means compensate with hoppers.

Compensation is determined on a case by case basis, in any business. Unless you are severely inconvenienced you should never expect it. If you get it for a minor inconvenience, wonderful. But from the OP's hostile post I don't see that phone call going politely. Maybe it did..just highly doubtful based on his posts here.

I said in my post that I thought park hoppers were a bit extravagent. So i am not arguing that at all. But we also weren't there...we have no idea how the situation was handled. I had 2 pretty rude cms last trip...it happens. (But I also had 20 great ones!)

We will agree to disagree on inconvenience level. I actually would argue that it is better to comp in minor situations. You can and should comp in big incovenience situations...but the problem may be so big the consumer still doesn't want anything to do with you.

If you comp in minor situations...you have made a customer happy and defiantly increased the chance that they will do business with you again. In the long run something like a free fast pass or photo pass would cost nothing and change an attitude right around (for most people).

Just my 2 cents regarding business philosophy lol.

I just know that company's that have righted a wrong (even with out being asked ) earn major loyalty from me.

 

[Love Tink]

I just know that company's that have righted a wrong (even with out being asked ) earn major loyalty from me.

This is the part that resonates with me. All those who sneer at the idea that a company should give you something for an inconvenience seem to have a misunderstanding of a lot of human nature.

It is significantly harder and more expensive to bring in a new customer than it is to retain a current customer. Smart companies work hard to keep the customers they have ensnared. Disney is the gold standard of this model - the model that good business includes earning customer loyalty.

Disney always - and I mean always - makes it okay with us when there is a hiccup. I mean - above and beyond what I could ever feel "entitled" to. It's one of the things we love about the company.

How do you go to business school and miss the idea that some companies give away small things in order to keep customer loyalty? Bizarre.

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

But you claimed that they were holding his money to gain interest from said money.
Again, that is absolutely untrue.

Disney did make 23 million in interest from some source last year. I am confident that any source of cash is beneficial to that revenue stream. You may have a different opinion, but what fun would the boards be if we all agreed.

ETA: link for sourcing: http://cdn.media.ir.thewaltdisneycompany.com/2014/annual/10k-wrap-2014.pdf

 

[Kimberly9701]

This is the part that resonates with me. All those who sneer at the idea that a company should give you something for an inconvenience seem to have a misunderstanding of a lot of human nature.

It is significantly harder and more expensive to bring in a new customer than it is to retain a current customer. Smart companies work hard to keep the customers they have ensnared. Disney is the gold standard of this model - the model that good business includes earning customer loyalty.

Disney always - and I mean always - makes it okay with us when there is a hiccup. I mean - above and beyond what I could ever feel "entitled" to. It's one of the things we love about the company.

How do you go to business school and miss the idea that some companies give away small things in order to keep customer loyalty? Bizarre.

I hope that you are not in charge of finances for a business, and do not personally own one. If you gave away something at every single turn, for any minor thing, you would have a decrease in profits. And worse- you would have people finding reasons to complain and then wish to be compensated as well.

Again- case by case basis.

I said in my post that I thought park hoppers were a bit extravagent. So i am not arguing that at all. But we also weren't there...we have no idea how the situation was handled. I had 2 pretty rude cms last trip...it happens. (But I also had 20 great ones!)

We will agree to disagree on inconvenience level. I actually would argue that it is better to comp in minor situations. You can and should comp in big incovenience situations...but the problem may be so big the consumer still doesn't want anything to do with you.

If you comp in minor situations...you have made a customer happy and defiantly increased the chance that they will do business with you again. In the long run something like a free fast pass or photo pass would cost nothing and change an attitude right around (for most people).

Just my 2 cents regarding business philosophy lol.

I just know that company's that have righted a wrong (even with out being asked ) earn major loyalty from me.

I'm all for gaining a fan...I'm not for customers expecting something. I'll agree to disagree

Fair enough, it could have been the server, but Disney still picks who they have a contract with for those services.

And this as the pp stated is a difference in philosophy and general outlook on life. You can look to blame, you can expect more, you can rant and rave, and say that people owe you, that people are keeping your money to make money off of you...and be angry at all things that are not factual. Or, you can accept a little hiccup and move on.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Fair enough, it could have been the server, but Disney still picks who they have a contract with for those services.

Yes.... and No.

Disney can control the acquirer it uses and the network it uses. They cannot control the private cloud that banks (I.E. VisaNet) use for inter connectivity (that's largely contracted to AT&T and Verizon and a few other players domestically, and of course local providers internationally by the credit card consortium). They also cannot control the Visa / Mastercard / Discover / Amex, etc card company servers farms that approve, deny or lock charges or your local bank server that handles the charge itself.

About all they can do in that regard is to choose not to accept a card type - like they can refuse to accept MasterCard. But then there would be a whole DIFFERENT angry crowd.

It's possible the problems were on Disney's banks side or network. However, given how prevalent double charging actually is (happens in everywhere from gas stations to Amazon to even banks themselves on a daily basis) I suspect the actual problems are more systemic from the way the system is designed. It's a mess.

if you are interested, read about it here:
http://blog.unibulmerchantservices.com/how-visas-payment-system-works/

Basically, 5, 6 and 7 (and sometimes part of 3 where VisaNet servers act on your banks behalf) where MOST of the work happens are all outside of Disney's control.

 

[Kimberly9701]

Disney did make 23 million in interest from some source last year. I am confident that any source of cash is beneficial to that revenue stream. You may have a different opinion, but what fun would the boards be if we all agreed.

ETA: link for sourcing: http://cdn.media.ir.thewaltdisneycompany.com/2014/annual/10k-wrap-2014.pdf

I can say with 100% certainty, and without having access to their financials, that not $1 of that interest was made by a technical error of double charging someone's card and immediately releasing those funds.

 

[maxiesmom]

I hav

Even if it were the CC company, Disney should still compensate me my hour and a half of time dealing with the CC company that I wouldn't have had to do if their computer hadn't made an error....

But companies and/or their banks are absolutely making money off of your money during the 7-10 days it takes to process your refund.

The upgrade to Hoppers for OP would be about $345. It would really take $345 to be made whole for having to make a phone call and waiting for a pending credit?

A bit ridiculous, isn't it? Not every error or glitch is deserving on hundreds of dollars of compensation. Maybe minimum wage for that 90 minutes would be ok.

 

[eyehartdisney]

I honestly cannot believe people on this thread think 1,600 dollars is a minor snafu. Can I borrow that money from you? I mean, jeez... I too would like some compensation for taking what would amount to my entire budget for a month for 10 days.

 

[hiroMYhero]

Dropping in to remind everyone to please follow the posting Guidelines:
DISboard posting guidelines

And, hopefully, please remain on the topic of the computer and/or user error. Thanks!

 

[smiths02]

I honestly cannot believe people on this thread think 1,600 dollars is a minor snafu. Can I borrow that money from you? I mean, jeez... I too would like some compensation for taking what would amount to my entire budget for a month for 10 days.

But they didn't "take" it. The computer made a mistake. They especially didn't take it if it was a credit card. What has actually been lost by the OP other than some phone time? We have no idea that it will even take 10 days.
And again, as pointed out before, who will compensate you? There are many places that the error could have happened.
$1600 is not minor, but if the OP has $1600 to spend on theme park tickets, it probably won't cause them to be homeless or starve for UP TO 10 days.
And how would 20% interest (the cost of park hoppers) be reasonable for UP TO 10 days of holding money. Wouldn't that be loan shark levels?