The Boat may have sailed, but I continue to let Member Services know....

[SL6827]

Now this has never happened to me but, from what I have read on the resorts board, Disney has may it hard in some cases for people to take a day away or add a day to their reservation, without rescheduling the whole thing. Its a cost saving move to reduce the number of empty rooms. But since they don't have that problem with DVC, I don't see it happening.

 

[SL6827]

We find WDW just as enjoyable in Feb or Sept with smaller crowds and less hassle.

February is the bomb!

 

[4luv2cdisney]

I have been a DVC member since 2006 and our family has visited WDW probably 20 times during that period and never once had to waitlist, walk a reservation, call at 8 am at 11 months or do any of the other crazy stuff that has gone on...and I have always been able to book a DVC room....how you ask ??...simple...don't go to WDW during the crazy times of the year. We find WDW just as enjoyable in Feb or Sept with smaller crowds and less hassle.

We used to go in February when the kids didn't have school or when we could take the kids out of school. Can't do that anymore. Unexcused absences cause big problems in our district. September and February are so wonderful because most people with kids in school can't go during that time. That's not a solution for most of us.

 

[SL6827]

We used to go in February when the kids didn't have school or when we could take the kids out of school. Can't do that anymore. Unexcused absences cause big problems in our district. September and February are so wonderful because most people with kids in school can't go during that time. That's not a solution for most of us.

How bad are the love bugs in September? Totally off topic, I know.

 

[SL6827]

There are maybe 5 rooms/times that truly book out at 8 am/11 months leaving some owners without a reservation:

1. BWV standard studio during Fall Frenzy
2. VGF studio during Fall Frenzy
3. Any of the AKV Concierge rooms
4. AKV value rooms.
5. Independence Day and race weekends at more popular studios.

Maybe another dozen rooms/times/cats are close to 8am book outs.

Any change that locks down walking by not allowing moving dates forward is going to change walking to just adding a few days at the beginning of your reservation. If you have enough points for 3 extra days, then including the first real day of your trip, that’s 4 chances to secure the room at 8 am. I’d take four tries over only one shot any day.

The end result is that you might not have as many month long walkers, but that’ll be MORE than made up by intense competition of 2-5 day walkers.

I’d expect in short order that the number of rooms and types that’ll need walking will explode to dozens of rooms/times/cats.

And then it’ll just become a self-feeding new norm.

The new “buy resale and add a 25-point kicker” type of advice will be, “Book as many days early as you have the points to do.”

With just a handful of resort needing to be walked, I wonder what percent of DVC owners actually do this? I imagine their are some that have no idea of how to do it. Very interesting thread to a potential new owner.

 

[chicagodisneyguy]

There are maybe 5 rooms/times that truly book out at 8 am/11 months leaving some owners without a reservation:

1. BWV standard studio during Fall Frenzy
2. VGF studio during Fall Frenzy
3. Any of the AKV Concierge rooms
4. AKV value rooms.
5. Independence Day and race weekends at more popular studios.

Maybe another dozen rooms/times/cats are close to 8am book outs.

Any change that locks down walking by not allowing moving dates forward is going to change walking to just adding a few days at the beginning of your reservation. If you have enough points for 3 extra days, then including the first real day of your trip, that’s 4 chances to secure the room at 8 am. I’d take four tries over only one shot any day.

The end result is that you might not have as many month long walkers, but that’ll be MORE than made up by intense competition of 2-5 day walkers.

I’d expect in short order that the number of rooms and types that’ll need walking will explode to dozens of rooms/times/cats.

And then it’ll just become a self-feeding new norm.

The new “buy resale and add a 25-point kicker” type of advice will be, “Book as many days early as you have the points to do.”

If what you predict is the result I agree that would make the situation worse and think keeping the current booking system as is would be better. I've got a feeling before Disney actually changes the booking process they would first reallocate the point chart. Shrinking the spread a bit between value/standard view vs other better views would probably help lessen demand for the cheaper views...or at least discourage people from walking reservations for a month since the benefit would be less. I think making part/all of fall frenzy a bit more expensive would be warranted (although the collective dvc disboards community would do a collective groan) and would lessen demand a bit. With more schools going to a longer calendar and having more fall breaks the fall demand is higher than it used to be.

But like i said before, I don't really have a skin in the game at this point since I've never had trouble getting what I want at 11 months. If i was trying to get a studio at GFV from October to mid-December that probably wouldn't be the case....i feel for those people

 

[4luv2cdisney]

How bad are the love bugs in September? Totally off topic, I know.

I have never been in Sept. (but I have been and Feb) and was just responding to the post I quoted.

 

[SL6827]

I have never been in Sept. (but I have been and Feb) and was just responding to the post I quoted.

Oh, ok.

 

[kboo]

We used to go in February when the kids didn't have school or when we could take the kids out of school. Can't do that anymore. Unexcused absences cause big problems in our district. September and February are so wonderful because most people with kids in school can't go during that time. That's not a solution for most of us.

I wish we had done this more before my oldest started school. She's still young but we are in a district (and school) which really, really frown on unexcused absences. Luckily school doesn't start until after Labor Day, so we do have a little time there where it's less crowded. But it's also hotter than Hades then.

If what you predict is the result I agree that would make the situation worse and think keeping the current booking system as is would be better. I've got a feeling before Disney actually changes the booking process they would first reallocate the point chart. Shrinking the spread a bit between value/standard view vs other better views would probably help lessen demand for the cheaper views...or at least discourage people from walking reservations for a month since the benefit would be less. I think making part/all of fall frenzy a bit more expensive would be warranted (although the collective dvc disboards community would do a collective groan) and would lessen demand a bit. With more schools going to a longer calendar and having more fall breaks the fall demand is higher than it used to be.

But like i said before, I don't really have a skin in the game at this point since I've never had trouble getting what I want at 11 months. If i was trying to get a studio at GFV from October to mid-December that probably wouldn't be the case....i feel for those people

I do feel like there's a baby and the bathwater problem here. I haven't had to walk, but I could see it being necessary over certain fall frenzy holidays. BUT - this also seems to be mainly the issue with certain studio categories, and if one has enough of a cushion to stay at a preferred level of studio or go up to a 1BR, this may not be such a problem. Which actually makes me wonder if Disney will do a reallocation or if they care at all - because people who bought to stay in studios (most Poly buyers, for example) and end up having to go up a room category, just means a more robust direct and resale market. So - now I'm not sure Disney has a huge incentive to overhaul the booking process to stop the relatively few walkers if it means the majority of people find that they need a few more points to be able to book preferred studios or 1BR if they need to.

 

[Dean]

It is not "as it should be". Maybe in your opinion, but it is certainly not as it has been in the last 26+ years. Implementing this would be a huge change and I bet a change most members would be very unhappy with.

Cancelation and rebooking isn't a rule, it's just the way they've done it so there would be no changes in rules if this were altered though they do have the authority to do so. Walking isn't a rule, it's a loophole allowed by the historical allowance to altering current reservations and the change to 7 days at a pop. Walking wasn't even an option when most members joined. Personally I think holding rooms that one has no intention to use to get ahead of others who are using the system as advertised (reserving at 11 months out) is something DVCMC should not allow. This isn't a "you snooze you loose" issue, this is someone holding rooms they don't intend to use by a loophole to get around the 11 month 7 day out reservation requirement. Certainly they could allow changes to add but not to reduce reservations, this would serve the same purpose. Or they could lock in reservations to no changes made at 11 months out. And I do feel that someone on a wait list should come ahead of a member who wants to change their reservations in this manner.

 

[Dean]

That's not a fix for walking. Or if it is, it's the equivalent of using a nuke to fix a hangnail. That's your personal preference, and it wouldn't work for DVC. DVC members have had the flexibility of making these types of changes for decades and if DVC suddenly became this restrictive, they'd have a revolt on their hands. I think they know that. I don't see this ever happening.

Here's the thing. One of the main reasons that DVC holds its value compared to other timeshares is that it IS different from other timeshares. 1. They didn't invent, but they did pioneer a points system. When DVC first started, timeshares were sold in blocks of weeks. Today, most of the major timeshares use a points system. Why? Because DVC proved the model. 2. DVC doesn't nickel and dime you to death. Other timeshares add so many fees, they aren't really all that much cheaper a method of travel. This is why I'm opposed to using fees to address walking. Why start down that road? 3. DVC doesn't hassle you endlessly about buying more points while you're on vacation. Now, I think they miss some opportunities here. I wouldn't want them holding a parking pass hostage to my agreeing to attend a timeshare seminar, but if I were DVC, I'd certainly consider stuffing an advertisement into the check-in package inviting non-members staying on points to a free meal/seminar. 4. And yes, DVC allows many more types of modifications than most other timeshares. You think that's a negative. I think you'd find that the vast majority of DVC owners think that's a positive.

DVC could make lots of changes because that what other timeshare do. What made and makes DVC special is that they can afford not to do so. In fact, this is my chief complaint against tiering benefits. They don't have to do this to sell points successfully; they ignore more potential traffic than most timeshares ever see.

I know that you're a consistent advocate of complete cancel for any changes. It's just not realistic; it's never gonna happen. If it ever did, DVC would have a meltdown on their hands bigger than New Coke.

We see this quite differently. One of the issues with trying to fix a problem by tweaks is the law of unintended consequences which is how we got to walking anyway. The other part of the issue is the costs of multiple phone calls. But the only way to fix walking it to at least make it costly or impossible to change those reservations made at 11 months out. We also disagree on the timeshare issue. IMO DVC is just a timeshare, it's value and success is due to location not management or system. IMO it's just another nice timeshare that happens to be at WDW. They didn't pioneer the points system by any stretch.

 

[ziravan]

Cancelation and rebooking isn't a rule, it's just the way they've done it so there would be no changes in rules if this were altered though they do have the authority to do so. Walking isn't a rule, it's a loophole allowed by the historical allowance to altering current reservations and the change to 7 days at a pop. Walking wasn't even an option when most members joined. Personally I think holding rooms that one has no intention to use to get ahead of others who are using the system as advertised (reserving at 11 months out) is something DVCMC should not allow. This isn't a "you snooze you loose" issue, this is someone holding rooms they don't intend to use by a loophole to get around the 11 month 7 day out reservation requirement. Certainly they could allow changes to add but not to reduce reservations, this would serve the same purpose. Or they could lock in reservations to no changes made at 11 months out. And I do feel that someone on a wait list should come ahead of a member who wants to change their reservations in this manner.

Jumping the booking window is built into Disney’s culture of planning.

Book your room 11 months plus 7 days.
Book your dining 180 days plus 10
Book your FPs 60 days plus length of stay.

In all three cases, booking a room you don’t intend to use can give you a distinct advantage. Look up ‘throwaway rooms’ on the main Disboards.

In all three cases, there are some who think it’s a reasonable exploitation of the rules and those who believe it’s unethical.

Disney seems to take the view that as long as the rooms/reservations/FPs are ultimately filled, who cares about the jostling for position. It seems to me that the only times they aren’t turning a blind eye to these strategies is when they’re advocating them.

 

[ziravan]

DVC is billed as getting a room at Disney only cheaper. They can’t make booking more restrictive than CRO.

They don’t want any cursory board review of DVC to bounce into threads about the trade offs of booking cash vs DVC (“DVC might be cheaper but it’s also far less flexible.”)

Unless they change the entire culture of booking rooms at Disney, I doubt very seriously that they’ll ever consider requiring a cancel to make changes.

And they’re not going to change the whole culture of booking rooms at Disney to fix walking.

 

[4luv2cdisney]

Cancel and rebook could still be turned into a form of walking. It's not guaranteed, but you'd still have 6 chances at starting a new reservation after booking your start point. So, today I book a stay for Nov. 5 - 12. I can try to pick up another room every morning and any morning I succeed, I book it and cancel the old. IMHO, it's actually easier than calling MS every few days and doesn't tie up MS. Also, if by the last day you haven't picked up a new res., it's completely possible that if you cancel your own res, you can immediately pick up that last night as your first night if you are not cancelling during a heavy booking time (8-10am). Again, not guaranteed, but people will try. So, you will still have rooms that people booked with no intention of keeping tied up, but you will eliminate the tying up MS aspect.

I guess my thought is that there are a lot of loopholes. (I think the 25 pt direct add on is a loophole that when they close could have a negative impact on membership as a whole.) If at some point nearly every member was calling multiple days in a row to book their vacation and now maybe a few hundred (?) people are calling every 3-4 days (during certain busy seasons) to walk a reservation, they consider their system improved. And I agree that they shouldn't make DVC so much more restrictive than regular bookings.

 

[ziravan]

Cancel and rebook could still be turned into a form of walking. It's not guaranteed, but you'd still have 6 chances at starting a new reservation after booking your start point. So, today I book a stay for Nov. 5 - 12. I can try to pick up another room every morning and any morning I succeed, I book it and cancel the old. IMHO, it's actually easier than calling MS every few days and doesn't tie up MS. Also, if by the last day you haven't picked up a new res., it's completely possible that if you cancel your own res, you can immediately pick up that last night as your first night if you are not cancelling during a heavy booking time (8-10am). Again, not guaranteed, but people will try. So, you will still have rooms that people booked with no intention of keeping tied up, but you will eliminate the tying up MS aspect.

I guess my thought is that there are a lot of loopholes. (I think the 25 pt direct add on is a loophole that when they close could have a negative impact on membership as a whole.) If at some point nearly every member was calling multiple days in a row to book their vacation and now maybe a few hundred (?) people are calling every 3-4 days (during certain busy seasons) to walk a reservation, they consider their system improved. And I agree that they shouldn't make DVC so much more restrictive than regular bookings.

I think what you’d find with cancel and rebook is that we’d be right back where we were before the last change, booking one day at a time so that when flights etc are finalized, we can make changes.

So. If I want 7 days, I book 3 consecutive in the middle and one night each on 4 leading and 4 ending nights. I’ve got 11 nights booked over 9 different reservations but now I’ve created some of the flexibility that is being proposed to be taken away.

1. What a nightmare for resort scheduling.

2. The slips in the cracks that lead to room changes as a result are going to cost FAR more for housekeeping than a few phone calls to member services.

3. Still tied up rooms and now does so probably through the 7 month window (flights at 5-6 months) so that now when those rooms are released, there is no home resort advantage attached to them.

4. Devalues DVC product because it’s now less flexible than CRO booking.

No.

No.

 

[Dean]

Cancel and rebook could still be turned into a form of walking. It's not guaranteed, but you'd still have 6 chances at starting a new reservation after booking your start point. So, today I book a stay for Nov. 5 - 12. I can try to pick up another room every morning and any morning I succeed, I book it and cancel the old. IMHO, it's actually easier than calling MS every few days and doesn't tie up MS. Also, if by the last day you haven't picked up a new res., it's completely possible that if you cancel your own res, you can immediately pick up that last night as your first night if you are not cancelling during a heavy booking time (8-10am). Again, not guaranteed, but people will try. So, you will still have rooms that people booked with no intention of keeping tied up, but you will eliminate the tying up MS aspect.

I guess my thought is that there are a lot of loopholes. (I think the 25 pt direct add on is a loophole that when they close could have a negative impact on membership as a whole.) If at some point nearly every member was calling multiple days in a row to book their vacation and now maybe a few hundred (?) people are calling every 3-4 days (during certain busy seasons) to walk a reservation, they consider their system improved. And I agree that they shouldn't make DVC so much more restrictive than regular bookings.

But if it's cancel and rebook and canceled rooms go to the wait list first and you still can get the room, it wouldn't matter because that means the rooms were ultimately available. But it is possible to lock down walking without changing other options and still be effective. But the issue is to put those booking at 11 months on equal ground and thus some walking now will not get their room at all because it went to someone else who was booking 11 months out, which is the way it should works if all are on equal footing. Basically if it doesn't have any affect that means walking was never needed or a factor to start with which we know isn't accurate.

 

[Dean]

I think what you’d find with cancel and rebook is that we’d be right back where we were before the last change, booking one day at a time so that when flights etc are finalized, we can make changes.

So. If I want 7 days, I book 3 consecutive in the middle and one night each on 4 leading and 4 ending nights. I’ve got 11 nights booked over 9 different reservations but now I’ve created some of the flexibility that is being proposed to be taken away.

1. What a nightmare for resort scheduling.

2. The slips in the cracks that lead to room changes as a result are going to cost FAR more for housekeeping than a few phone calls to member services.

3. Still tied up rooms and now does so probably through the 7 month window (flights at 5-6 months) so that now when those rooms are released, there is no home resort advantage attached to them.

4. Devalues DVC product because it’s now less flexible than CRO booking.

No.

No.

Certainly no system is going to be perfect but that's why I feel nibbling at it won't really help or will hurt as much or more than it helps. You really have to drop a bomb on it to fix it. Basically a complete overhaul and a no exception type policy either for the 7 days 11 month out reservations or everything. If you try to help walking but keep the other options in place for most situations it likely will be worse overall or at least not better.

 

[ziravan]

Certainly no system is going to be perfect but that's why I feel nibbling at it won't really help or will hurt as much or more than it helps. You really have to drop a bomb on it to fix it. Basically a complete overhaul and a no exception type policy either for the 7 days 11 month out reservations or everything. If you try to help walking but keep the other options in place for most situations it likely will be worse overall or at least not better.

It’s not a big enough problem to drop a bomb on it. That would a massive overkill.

 

[Dean]

It’s not a big enough problem to drop a bomb on it. That would a massive overkill.

We'll have to disagree and it's getting worse.

 

[Ben E N]

It’s not a big enough problem to drop a bomb on it. That would a massive overkill.

Judging from the responses on this thread, it appears there are many more people who find walking to be a significant problem. Not a scientific study by any means, but it is an indicator that there are more people in favor of something being done than not.